[SoupDragon]

This is a question that is in my head today. I have never been given a diagnosis and the first time I ever talked to anyone about my head space, was my T who I went to see because I have self destructive thoughts. Even then I didn't label myself as anything.

I know I have had so many struggles in my life, fear, low mood, extreme self consciousness (my head teacher described me as self effacing when I was 5).

But I function OK, I am sure my family, friends and colleagues would all be very shocked if they knew what went on in my head.

But today I have been thinking, what makes me so different from them? Maybe they too have the thoughts and struggles that I have, maybe I would be the one who would be shocked if I knew what was going on in their heads, for they seem to function well. Is is just me who can't cope with my thoughts so well - so it is the thoughts that are the mental illness, or our reaction to them? Hmm?

[CastlesInTheAir]

I think everyone has thoughts that run through thier heads that would surprise anyone. Just with some of us the thoughts takeover I would guess.

[Leed]

I think you know when you have a mental illness when the thoughts aren't of the "norm" (whatever that is) and they tend to take over any other thoughts. For instance, I have severe depression, and ALL I could think of before medication was how TERRIBLY sad I felt ALL the time. That's the ONLY thing that was in my head. Nothing else mattered, but how LOW and depressed I felt, and other than that I was numb to the rest of the world. I felt no love, no hate, no joy, no nothing. I KNEW that wasn't normal.

That's how I figured I had a problem. I imagine it's kinda the same with other illnesses of the mind too. God bless & take care. Hugs, Lee

[beauflow]

It is a good question to pose SoupDragon.

I remember my first time being told by a friend that having constant suicidal thoughts were not of the normal. That was my teenager years... I had suicidal thoughts since a kid, and I found it strange that it was not of the "normal" due to just- really? in my mind...
I remember when I went into the first Pdoc of mine, he made the comment that-- Ya know most people have suicidal thoughts ever now and again in their lives *especially when things are stressful or something happens- however with constantly having them, or thinking things are illusions (being lied to) constantly and having them are not of the normal.

I will agree- what is normal??- normal is majority votes is most cases, which is fine....

As well as every human being is a little crazy-- we all are in our own little ways,

But I think- what difines it being problematic is either society (i.e. people that go out and do stuff that really do need help) or (I guess in my personal opinion) ourselves if we feel that we are struggling and need help - if we are stuck and not fully happy -- or if close people point it out to us and we realize....

Be well all

[mala]

Hi SD,
The point is that you can be assessed by lots of psychs and they can all come up with different diagnosis. I didnt realise that mh probs have a lot to do with the quality of lives. I think most people have ok moments as I call it, where during a month say, they have a few ok moments . This can be anything from having a coffee with a friend, to a restuarant. I dont know if that makes sense, whereas in severe mh, there are no moments, that person can be at a restuarant and it doesnt lift their mood, thought etc. Some have no quality or with deep emotional probs.
Hope it helps
mala

[SoupDragon]

Thanks for all your responses,

so is it that the range of thoughts I have are normal (if my mind is capable of having them then it must be within human possibility), it is just their frequency and the way I deal with them that makes it not normal.

So if that is the case, when we have medication or see a T - what bit is being helped / changed? Is it about stopping the thoughts, or learning to react to them differently?

I guess I am asking because I still have pretty awful thoughts all the time, but I don't run around trying to escape from them all the time like before. So does this mean that I no longer have any mental health problems, that my work with T has been successful, or should I expect more from an outcome, like a significant reduction in the negative thoughts and increase in the positive ones. Oh dear I think I am tying myself in knots again.

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

This is a question that is in my head today. I have never been given a diagnosis and the first time I ever talked to anyone about my head space, was my T who I went to see because I have self destructive thoughts. Even then I didn't label myself as anything.

I know I have had so many struggles in my life, fear, low mood, extreme self consciousness (my head teacher described me as self effacing when I was 5).

But I function OK, I am sure my family, friends and colleagues would all be very shocked if they knew what went on in my head.

But today I have been thinking, what makes me so different from them? Maybe they too have the thoughts and struggles that I have, maybe I would be the one who would be shocked if I knew what was going on in their heads, for they seem to function well. Is is just me who can't cope with my thoughts so well - so it is the thoughts that are the mental illness, or our reaction to them? Hmm?

How do we know when we have a mental disorder, is it thoughts is it reactions to thoughts?

no not necessarily thoughts or reactions, at least not here in the USA..

sometimes its how a person behaves, or doesnt behave up to society, sometimes its because of violence like wars and natural disasters, sometimes its because of the abuse some have undergone, sometimes its just because of some devestating loss either real or percieved.. Sometimes it happens because of something done or not done to a child that is outside the childs own body and control, sometimes mental illness happens through things like accidents (work related, traffic related what ever).. just about anything in a persons life can cause a person to have a mental illness....hurricane katrina, loss of family, the gulf war, the war in iraq, abuse, there are many mentally and physically scarred/disordered people now in another USA state just because they went to the movies and a guy took to shooting everyone while they were watching the film...

So how do we Americans know when we have a mental disorder?

here in the USA the main psychiatric agency for the whole USA called the American Psychiatric Association gets together periodically and they put together diagnostic criteria for each mental disorder that the USA treatment providers treat. they put all this information into a diagnostic book for mental disorders just like our medical profession has a governing agency that puts the diagnostic criteria for medical problems into a book for physicians.

tests are also devised to detect the mental disorders and where ever possible their causes.

we go to a mental health treatment provider with a problem, any problem.. parenting, dating, social skills, school, intimate problems what ever...the problems that our mental health system helps with are infinite....

the mental health treatment provider who knows the diagnostics and symptoms of the mental disorders recognizes them in the client and sends the client for testing..

when all the testing is done the mental health treatment providers tell the clients whether their problems are a mental disorder or not. Alot of times what someone perceives as a mental disorder turns out to be just a normal thing for that person. but sometimes all the tests show yes they have a mental disorder.

as for what makes you different than others... I cant speak about you but here in the USA we have a saying...everyone is an individual, no one is a copy of someone else. we are all different in many ways.. our differences may be our color, our religion, our culture, our looks, our thoughts, our physical challenges, even the rate in which we run, play work, eat is not the same as another human being. We are all different, we are all individuals.

[SoupDragon]

Originally Posted by amandalouise

How do we know when we have a mental disorder, is it thoughts is it reactions to thoughts?

no not necessarily thoughts or reactions, at least not here in the USA..

sometimes its how a person behaves, or doesnt behave up to society, sometimes its because of violence like wars and natural disasters, sometimes its because of the abuse some have undergone, sometimes its just because of some devestating loss either real or percieved.. Sometimes it happens because of something done or not done to a child that is outside the childs own body and control, sometimes mental illness happens through things like accidents (work related, traffic related what ever).. just about anything in a persons life can cause a person to have a mental illness....hurricane katrina, loss of family, the gulf war, the war in iraq, abuse, there are many mentally and physically scarred/disordered people now in another USA state just because they went to the movies and a guy took to shooting everyone while they were watching the film...

So how do we Americans know when we have a mental disorder?

here in the USA the main psychiatric agency for the whole USA called the American Psychiatric Association gets together periodically and they put together diagnostic criteria for each mental disorder that the USA treatment providers treat. they put all this information into a diagnostic book for mental disorders just like our medical profession has a governing agency that puts the diagnostic criteria for medical problems into a book for physicians.

tests are also devised to detect the mental disorders and where ever possible their causes.

we go to a mental health treatment provider with a problem, any problem.. parenting, dating, social skills, school, intimate problems what ever...the problems that our mental health system helps with are infinite....

the mental health treatment provider who knows the diagnostics and symptoms of the mental disorders recognizes them in the client and sends the client for testing..

when all the testing is done the mental health treatment providers tell the clients whether their problems are a mental disorder or not. Alot of times what someone perceives as a mental disorder turns out to be just a normal thing for that person. but sometimes all the tests show yes they have a mental disorder.

as for what makes you different than others... I cant speak about you but here in the USA we have a saying...everyone is an individual, no one is a copy of someone else. we are all different in many ways.. our differences may be our color, our religion, our culture, our looks, our thoughts, our physical challenges, even the rate in which we run, play work, eat is not the same as another human being. We are all different, we are all individuals.

Thanks for this - maybe I am looking at it in a too simple way. I understand that a whole host of life events can cause mental illness, but in my head right now it still comes down to thoughts or reactions to them. Someone who witnessed something traumatic, may never forget it, but those thoughts do not stop their normal functioning so they may never seek help - do they have a mental illness? For others with those thoughts, although still able to function in most areas of their lives, may want the thoughts to calm down and so may seek help - do they have a mental illness? Others still may feel so overwhelmed with their traumatic thoughts, that they react to them (or behave in a certain way) which stops them functioning - do they have a mental illness? It may be the same event witnessed by all of them, but it may affect them in different ways - so I totally agree we are all individuals, but how do we separate what is mental illness - is it only when thoughts start to impact on functioning that treatment is given?

[PurpleFlyingMonkeys]

That's a great question and I've mulled it over a couple of times myself but haven't come up with the answer yet. I suppose doctors would claim that it's losing touch with reality, when the thinking becomes a problem and interferes with other functions or when the thoughts become violent, when the thoughts become what society deems as "unusual"

But the longer I live and express my thoughts, the more I realize, although not everyone is like me, my thoughts aren't one of a kind all the time, many people share the feelings ideas and thought process, just it effects some more than others, it gets to some more, confuses some and becomes a problem for some.

I also believe how you act on the thoughts causes the diagnosis, I believe they have some things that are actually physical mental illness as well. But when you think about it, a lot of "mental illness" has to do with how we perceive and react with the world. IMO it's more of the way your mind is designed to think and act as opposed to an illness, but whatever word you put on it, it is what it is

And please no stone throwing for my above comment, I've got many mental illnesses of my own, they are a struggle, but imo, that's life, a struggle. More so for some than others

[SoupDragon]

Originally Posted by PurpleFlyingMonkeys

That's a great question and I've mulled it over a couple of times myself but haven't come up with the answer yet. I suppose doctors would claim that it's losing touch with reality, when the thinking becomes a problem and interferes with other functions or when the thoughts become violent, when the thoughts become what society deems as "unusual"

But the longer I live and express my thoughts, the more I realize, although not everyone is like me, my thoughts aren't one of a kind all the time, many people share the feelings ideas and thought process, just it effects some more than others, it gets to some more, confuses some and becomes a problem for some.

I also believe how you act on the thoughts causes the diagnosis, I believe they have some things that are actually physical mental illness as well. But when you think about it, a lot of "mental illness" has to do with how we perceive and react with the world. IMO it's more of the way your mind is designed to think and act as opposed to an illness, but whatever word you put on it, it is what it is

And please no stone throwing for my above comment, I've got many mental illnesses of my own, they are a struggle, but imo, that's life, a struggle. More so for some than others

Thanks PurpleFlyingMonkeys - this makes a lot of sense to me. I agree on how you act is what causes the diagnosis - that's the bit that others see isn't it - they can't actually see your thoughts, beyond what you describe, so all that is left is reactions / behaviours.

Soup

Perhaps we don't always know when we're mentally ill? A lot of conditions prevent people from having that sort of awareness of themselves and how others see them etc. A simplistic answer i know but ive known a lot of people who later found out that what they suffering from caused them to feel the way that they did and they weren't really able to compare their behaviour to others or perceive how other people responded/would respond to them. There is of course conditions like mine that aren't actually classified as mental illness but which render me inable to regulate my emotions or modulate my behaviour - in short i don't quite see the world or respond to it the ways others do. I could of course be wrong in all this but these are just my thoughts - its a complicated topic so i suppose people come up with a lot of different answers.

[wing]

It is easy for me to tell I have a mental illness because with Bipolar 1 I have had delusions and hallucinations that cannot be viewed valid and reasonable in any way by others. Medicated, those obvious symptoms are gone, but then the less severe underlying diagnosis comes to the forefront, social anxiety. It is there that I realize I am mentally ill because I am "well enough" to recognize my conduct is outside the bell curve of human behavior. The reactions I get from others makes that obvious.

I think mental illness can be defined as patterns of thoughts and behaviors that keep you from participating fully within societal "norms".

[December Spawn]

I never thought I had some mental illness while I was a young teen. It wasn't till I was in my 20's that I figured out something wasn't right. I had a job, but it was making me sick. I couldn't stand to be around people any longer and had to quit. After that and some TV commercials I figured it out.