If you had choice between happiness and making a mark...

What you are describing here, to me, sounds more like contentment than happiness. Maybe I am just splitting hairs but I think there is an important distinction. To be content is not necessarily the same as being happy, although I think many people believe this to be the case.

Being happy is not wrong. One does not have to "sell out," so to speak, to be happy, I think. Being happy is no different than being sad, angry, hopeless, joyful, or any other feeling; it is a momentary state that does not last forever.

Contentment, or "being at peace," however, is an entirely different thing, in my opinion. I do not see contentment as an emotion but as a state of being one is striving for. This is more of what you are describing I think, where a person settles (for better or for worse) that life is as good as it will get and that the bad things are not so bad as to be constantly grappling and struggling with them. Contentment comes at a cost, like you said, of that "drive," that struggle that makes humanity so... human. But I think life is also tiring, and it is perhaps equally understandable to want some kind of rest from the constant conflict.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

" I think happiness sometimes means lack of drive, satisfaction with how things are." quote Venus

Yes, it is and that is how many "leaders" gain power and control of populations.

"Give them bread and circuses and we can do whatever we wish". Was one school of thought that brought "power and control" for some "greedy leaders".

.... drive is unrest, need to do something... and then something else."quote Venus"

Yes, but what is the end goal, purpose for this? Is is not to achieve "happiness and contentment"? Some kind of path to being truely content and safe?

Take away a popluations sense of happiness and safety and what do you get? In fact it is proven "easy" to convince a population that they need to be angry, fight against some kind of "threat" to their happiness.

And being "heard"? That is not so "easy" which is why we have weapons of mass distruction.

A cultural perception can become so skewed that it explodes in anger and distruction.

When we boil it all down to the fundamentals of human nature it can become very disturbing.

Where is the driving force of world unrest? Where does it typically come from?

The leaders, the ones in control is it not?

Typically when it comes down to the people we call the "civilians" they are only a population that is trying to survive and thrive, they are not truely "evil" people.
When we occupied Japan after WWII, my father told me that the Japenese civilians were a people that were "generous and very kind and respectful". We often see that when we get past a horrible war and actually meet the civilians that are only trying to survive, find some kind of happiness and thrive.

That's also because civilians don't start wars.

Yes, but they are "convinced" into thinking it is necessary, sadly.

i've always said, that i've always wanted to make a mark... something worth while

hard to think that in 25 years of my life i've not really accomplished it

happyness would be nice, of course. but i'd rather die knowing i've helped trhe world in some small way

Kinda black and white tho? People can have happiness, content, drive, unrest, need to do al at the same time. It's contradiction yes, and the entire universe if full of condtradiction.

No reason why someone can not be content ( happy) whatever you want to call it and have drive, and settle the unrest. I don't think it's one way or the other as your example above Venus, can be, doesn't have to be. I know you said sometimes, but I am getting a more black and white vibe from this and the question posed.

I think I do matter, as we all do. Leave a mark? Hmm don't care if my name is attached to it, but I do care about doing what I should to help make a better world. I have drive to do things, and yet I am also content overall and will continue to do another and another.. peacefully as I can in the moments given.

Once again, I'm sure someone can feel positively about their lives, and still have a drive, but I think people would be hard pressed to find many examples of people who have had a serious drive to do something, and ended up changing the world, that fit the profile of someone who's happy and content, even if they can be.

Guess it depends on the yard stick you are measuring with.

I felt ok to offer my opinion, I'm sorry but the "once again" sounds kind of like an "uggh here we go again", I am sorry you already heard the same thing, but I was answering the question Venus asked and thought what she said mattered. Maybe that is not what you meant, but I don't know how to respond.

I am not going to actually research it cause I don't have the time and I don't think it would really matter, people see it how they do. I don't feel as tho I would be hard pressed to find people like that tho, I just don't see it that way. I can think of quite a few off the top of my head. But again what are we measuring and with what, what I consider changing the world you might not, and same in reverse. So maybe that effects how we see it.

Your input is welcome nor do you have anything to apologize for. I often like your input and what you have to say. It's obvious that this is something people have different views on, and at the end of the day, is a subjective topic. I do, however, firmly agree with Venus that there's a certain disconnect between happiness, and that certain drive, and I certainly think history has shown this.

I'm fine with contentment.

Ok, I was not sure, text is hard to read the tone sometimes heh or always, sensitive tonight.. That is me not you Dragon. I went back, but maybe that is part in why people see it differently. I am not really sure. I know that what I see a sustainable change for the long term might not be considered history text book worthy, but changes the world.

Will I get in trouble for not answering the question?

Really, I could live either of those existences, but I would not want to. I'm not Alexander the Great and I'm not a simple minded peon either. I almost went the 'struggling to make a difference' route and I accomplished quite a bit doing it, but that's no longer me. I'm living simply now but I know that it won't bring me true happiness. Like you said, it's vapid and shallow.

I don't care if I'm remembered. In fact, I would rather not be. My goal is to find inner contentment and live from within myself. I wish to have an effect on this world and I know that I have to always be working towards something higher than myself, but it doesn't have to be on a worldwide scale. If I base my sense of self on it, then I'll falter.

I guess what I'm saying is that I would rather live a confident and balanced life where I am consistently doing some good. I no longer wish to give myself over to it though.

Last night I watched The History of Man on the History Channel, and there were plenty of examples of how different human beings made marks for the progress of humanity, with positive drive as well as the contentment and happiness they enjoyed from their efforts.

It is "clear" however that human beings are constantly looking for ways to control the environment and explore new ideas and understandings of "life" and what it means, what it is and what it can be. Because of that our environment is ever changing and we have populated the world in large numbers. Sitting back in deep thought about wanting to make a mark that can change the entire world has been done by many throughout time. I think that now however, our world is "crowded" and it is getting harder because we don't have as much room to "expand" as we did in the past.
So it is no wonder that the younger generations feel that making a mark now would be so hard that "sacrifice and misery and unhappiness" would be part of making that mark.

Open Eyes

probably gonna get myself in trouble here by making an observation...

Most here have said they would rather make a difference in the world. I'm wondering what each of those people are doing to make a major difference in the world? How are you following your words with actions?

Having said that, I believe most of us do not have any single great impact on the world. At the same time, I believe we can each have ongoing impact on the world in our day-to-day lives. I've mentioned a Bobby Kennedy quote in other posts that says we each send ripples out into the world. When the ripples of many people join together it can create a tidewave of change. I truly believe that.

I also believe it is possible to cause change in the world AND have a happy life. For me they are not exclusive, rather they go hand in hand. I work with youth who are risk of becoming involved with the juvenile justice system. Am I having any major impact on the world in what I do? I doubt it. BUT if I can have a postive impact on the life of a youth I HAVE had an impact on the world of that youth. Can I help all of them? No, but offering my help to them still brings me satisfaction ("happiness").

you need to matter to be truly happy, I would prefer to leave a mark on the world because if you die without leaving a mark, then there is no point living in the first place.

I volunteered with foster kids, refugees (I always came home and went sleep, emotionally drained from that). I volunteered in Eastern europe, teaching kids English for free and trying to "sow a seed" of hope and "you can change this, you know?".

I don't turn off the news cause it makes me "feel depressed" for one (kinda rare these days, I think:/). I went to study politics and work on making my way into the NON-PROFIT sphere...

I am still young... I don!t need to be next Princess Diana... or Havel for the matter... but I will try my hardest to make impact.

"probably gonna get myself in trouble here by making an observation..." quote Lizard Lady

Why would you be in trouble? I personally think your contribution here is important. It gives others permission to realize that a "mark" can be made by doing positive things in "smaller ways".
Making a mark doesn't have to mean we will be remembered as an individual for creating "positive" changes. What is really important is that what each of us can do to contribute in "positive" ways so we can create a wave of more positive and productive ways that people utilize that produces an "overall change" in many.

What you do Lizardlady, one challenged person at a time, can bear one individual that is enlightened enough to create even "more positive change". Your "mark" on one person can become a seed that can produce something even more positive to take place.

It is easy to sit back and see so many problems going on in the world today. To try to think about what someone can do to change the big picture is often so overwhelming that a lifetime can be spent with only wishes/talk/frustration and no contributions at all.

What I think about myself is that each person I touch and listen to, I try to validate the value of their individual existance. In the years I taught different children, I was most concerned with each child finding their own sense of personal value. And I was "happy" whenever I saw a child walk away from me with "more self esteem". I also talked to many different parents, especially during the time where there was such a surge in the Mac Mansion style of living. I told them that it doesn't matter the size of a home to a child, what matters is that the home is "a happy safe filled with love home". I know that was important because many parents did worry about "keeping up with what seemed like "the important things to have" at the time. I spent extra time with some of the parents to tell what I had noticed among the different children from different kinds of homes and that not all these children in these "big homes were outgoing and happy". Each of these parents had a new perspective on the value of what they did have and I know it made a differecnce. My mark was seeing that take place, not about me having any real power or long lasting recognition for that effort.

The world is full of people who crave permission to be able to be what they are and have "value" in that. By being a presence that can validate anyone's sense of self worth, can make such a big difference. Often we tend to forget that and get caught up in the bigger picture instead, which in my opinion can be wasteful.

I volunteered with foster kids, refugees (I always came home and went sleep, emotionally drained from that). I volunteered in Eastern europe, teaching kids English for free and trying to "sow a seed" of hope and "you can change this, you know?". quote Venus

That is wonderful Venus. I hope you continue to make these kinds of efforts, sharing your passion and education with others can plant many positive seeds out there. Some people take their education and use it for "self importance" and they can go around bragging about the materialistic things they have to show for what they "think" is proof of value. Perhaps this is the "shallow happiness" you are discribing. My happiness came from seeing the children I taught walk away with more "self esteem" and pride in themselves. My idea of a "mark" was in helping others build a stronger sense of "self", and doing that made me happy.

I consider "shallow happiness" as the people that gain success, and pride in some kind of big name. People who can go into an expensive auto store, buy an extremely expensive auto with cash, and on their way home to their mansion pass through a place where people are homeless and cold and not even be affected by it.

Open Eyes