Using other conditions to explain MI

I think it depends on how one sees "medical" or what is included under the term "medical". I think some people, including some psychiatrists, use "medical" to deny that a person's experience has anything to do with the development of "mental illness". They want to see it as purely the result of "physical" factors (such as chemicals or genetic malformations). If medicine can include the effects of human interactions on the development of "mental illness" then that is to the good (I think).

lessening the personal humane experience is my problem of the purely medical model. And adding "eat healthy, sleep well, excercise" doesn't really cut it either.

I have problem when trauma issues are viewed overly as "brain issue". To me it seems akin to "if your brain was healthy, you would be fine with what happened ot you". If anything, trauma related issues are injury to the soul... not an "illness".

Sayings like "it's your illness talking" make me mad. As I said elsewhere... what the person feels is real to them atm. And if I feel worthless and without purpose, "your illness is lying to you" will not make me feel better.

For me depression is often about lack of will to live (and I just don't mean in "I wanna die" sense... but rather "is all in vain, is all an illusion, let's not..."). Bit beyond sadness.

So is anybody going to talk about comparing MI to other illnesses, which is the topic of this thread? Or should I ask the mods to close it because all anybody wants to do is debate whether or not it's medical?

I think you can use the medical comparison to get a point across, but there are obvious flaws in the analogy. I can point to a very specific and detailed pathophysiology for diabetes. I can tell you exactly how that organ is not functioning and what blood glucose testing and medication does.

We can understand the anatomic composition of the brain, but we do not understand the mind. I can't measure your brain chemicals. I can't tell you how the complex interaction of thought, emotion, action, environmental stimuli, and personality influences your subjective experiences. There is no set and readily understood pathophysiology for mental illness. What you are experiencing and what we deem mental illness is a collection of symptoms, in this case indicating a maladaptive pattern of thought, feeling, and action.

We diagnose based on these symptoms. We do not diagnose illnesses like diabetes based solely on symptoms of low and high blood glucose. Doing so would actually indicate a fundamental lack of understanding in the disease, and would likely cause it to be confused with other illnesses that cause similar symptoms. It is presumptuous to say that we know what mechanisms in the brain are malfunctioning and to liken it to failure of another organ.

The concept of a 'chemical imbalance' as the cause of mental illness is a theory. The fact that medication helps people supports that theory. However, caffeine sometimes helps me function, but it is not because I have a caffeine deficiency. Assuming such would be poor science at best and detrimental due to the implications at worst. Use adrenaline instead of caffeine if you want an example of something the body produces naturally. It would be awfully silly if we found that epinephrine can help certain afflictions, assumed that people with those afflictions had an epinephrine deficiency, and left it at that.

The mind is not just a collection of chemicals, and I think this is where spirituality comes in. There is heart and soul in our minds. It is the source of great literature and art. Furthermore, whether a mind is functioning correctly is based just as much (if not more) on situation. Would a child with ADD be considered ill in the days of cavemen? Would a Spartan warrior be challenged by dyslexia? Humans didn't evolve to sit in an office all day. I could envision a society where cynicism was prized and optimism considered disadvantageous. What is "normal" when it comes to our thoughts? You can't summarize that as easily as you can a dysfunction of the pancreas. Whether our brains are "broken" is as subjective as any other interpretation of the human experience.

I have never really thought about using comparisons between physical illness and mental illness. I also don't believe that either of them are necessarily 'caused' by 'poor choices', which sometimes happens when people (especially people ignorant of certain mental and/or physical health issues) make assessments or assumptions of situations they don't understand. I can see why you made that connection, because a lot of people don't understand that mental illness - or whatever you want to call it, because everyone thinks of it or experiences it differently - is not something that happens due to lack of care or attention, or lack of diligence. Just as healing isn't always possible for some people. It's different for everyone. I know many people who live with depression. Yes, they live with it. The find ways to manage it. Sometimes it's manageable. Sometimes it's not. And I know still others who have an episode of depression and then are able to heal from it and move on, and not experience it again. And then there's all sorts of other things in between.
I avoid discussing mental or physical health with people who believe that illness is a result of sin, or demonic possession, or something along those lines. The last time I was in psychosis I believed some people who told me that, and my life became a living hell for the next four months. I know they meant their best. I just had no filters at the time, because I couldn't tell truth from reality. All I know is how I relate to my own experience, and that I don't personally know if I'll ever be free of it or if it's something I'll just have to learn to live with, because I haven't lived my whole life yet. I don't have those answers. I know that I'm doing everything in my power to live a life of quality and meaning, and I don't automatically trust everything the doctors tell me (especially when it comes to meds), but I do take everything into account because there's useful information in everything.
In summary, I be careful in making comparisons of any kind, because I have learned that unless I have had a certain experience, I don't feel I'm in any position to go there. I have seen others (on here and in life) talk about their experiences with physical and mental health issues, and while I can sympathize, or support, I cannot understand, because I don't have that experience. I can say, "I know a person who's had this experience, and what s/he has told me is..." if it has the power to help someone. But ultimately, if I'm talking about something I have no experience with, I'm really just reciprocating the same sort of energy and action as the person who 'doesn't get it' and makes ignorant and/or hurtful comments in the first place, whether or not I'm intending to.
Hope some of this is helpful. Just my two cents.

My fellow student thanked in his thesis to distrubutors of energy drinks "I would never be able to do this without your products". While I was not so cheeky... I wouldnt be able to get my master's degree without legal OTC stimulants either. I will probably will never be able to function fully without coffee/redbull/guarana/yerba mate... It's question if it's me having "medical condition" or if it's that were really weren't designed to use our brains in such a way we do today.

I am not being snarky here... caffeine analysis is actually better then my alcohol analysis. I am stealing it.

I think I see the reasoning here. It may be hard for me to grasp, though, since I'm going through a slow brain phase. Which leads me right into:

When I have trouble with slow brain function, I think the biggest barrier to understanding what is happening inside me is to label it "depression." People hear "depression," and they think crying and moping, which isn't happening at all. In fact I am emotionally very dull, and I'm not sure I could cry right now no matter what happened. You have to have at least some mental energy going on, to feel emotion.

But right now, even being coherent enough to type this is exhausting for me. I normally type 60 words a minute. I can't do that right now. I'd be lucky to clock 25. My thoughts are coming too slowly and randomly to communicate them well. Then I have to go back and re-read my previous sentence, so I can connect it logically to my next one. I'm the same way verbally. I keep losing what I'm saying, in the middle of saying it.

Maybe instead of trying to explain this "depression" in light of other illnesses, the solution is to call it something else so people don't assume I'm simply in need of being cheered up? What should I call it, then?

Well, I think it's better to explain for those who care what is actually going on. I demonstrated racing thoughts to few people... and it got the point across.

I do get the "feeling stupid" at times too, so I can sympathize. As for inability to cry, it's actually common effect of ADs and other drugs... or it can occur naturally too. Mind is a funny thing.

But I really think that explaining the basis symptoms of what is going on is better than comparing it to something else. I really feel the medical model to most people is "if they take their pills, things are swell". I encountered that attitude personally. Most people are willing to listen if you tell them what is going on. May try to have unhelpful suggestions... but often they think they are being helpful, eh.

Even if it's a medical issue, things don't become automatically "swell" just because somebody takes their pills. Turning again to diabetes as a point of comparison, I took my insulin last night at the appointed time. It is 6:30 PM and I have not eaten all day (too depressed) so by all rights I should have gone into hypoglycemia by now. Not only has that not happened, but my blood sugar reading is actually 240. (13.33 for non-American scales. It's out of control.) It turns out that emotional stress, which I am under a tremendous amount of, can and does elevate blood sugar. So even with diabetes, it's not "take your medicine, and shut up." I still have to learn to de-stress.

By the way, it turns out I was mistaken on one point about my current mental state. I can cry. Which is good.

I just happened to be reading PC blog on depression, and stumbled into this article by Dr John that concisely discusses the exact depression/diabetes analogy in point 2 below as well as other points made in the related chemical imbalance thread:

7 Myths of Depression | World of Psychology

So I thought I'd pass it on here.

PS, comma error:
>In fact, a lot of research suggests that most people can be treated for depression successfully in as little as 24 weeks with a combination of psychotherapy, and if needed, medications.

Middle comma should be after "and," rather than before it. Take out what's between the 2 last commas and the sentence looks broken.

PPS English teacher or copyeditor for hire. Meep-meep

I also use the medical analogy when I'm discussing mental health... only because I think some people associate mental health with "MOOD". Being depressed isn't the same as feeling sad. There may be sadness involved, but being depressed isn't simply being in a negative mood. I believe, from what I've read over the years, that there is a physiological element to mental illness. So... I explain that just as one might treat diabetes (or another medical conditon)with both medicine AND lifestyle choices, they might also treat mental illness with both medicine and life style choices.