Boundaries, Respect, and Understanding

Yes, strange how a support site can cause one to feel so much hurt. Life is harsh enough, I fail to see the point in going that extra distance and (deliberately) hurting people online.

Is it wrong to expect at least a minimal amount of respect and/or decency, especially from a support site? Apparently it is.

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myself said:
this is an open to the public community. that means that if someone is placing something on the boards then ALL of the world wide web already has access to that information so whether or not I take information outside this community boards and chat room for example post a summary of the posts here and a subject line of the community boards here on my blog, that is not stepping beyond confidentiality because those that access my blog are already coming in here member or not reading those volluntarily placed posts.

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If they are already reading it and have access why would I or anybody else feel a need to take it elsewhere???


Myself said:
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I didn't tell them what they did was wrong and so on because this site is open to the public so they were well within their rights to do what

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Just because it is legal does not make it "right".

If a person's post was important to my recovery I would not disrespect them by using their words without asking. If it is not important to my recovery then what would be the point except to cause pain and hurt.

This of course is just MY opinion.

Before I say something negative (as defined by me, may not seem negative to the other but if I "intend" negative) to another person I use my imagination and think, "What if I'm wrong and they're right?" That usually puts me in the other person's shoes well enough from my own perspective that I stop and "shrug." If I don't care for someone's posts then I figure I can "not care" enough to not bother replying :-) The other person doesn't really know me, we're not friends, what difference does it make in my own life what they think (not like I can change them and what they think anyway). I'm sure there are scads of people in the real world who don't think like I do (No, Perna, say it ain't so! :-)

I agree with the saying " What is said Here SHOULD stay here, when your in a group IRL, this would be called Breach of Confidentiality
What I post here should stay here

There is no breach of confidentiality in this case. Anyone can come and look. Hell, I found this place on google with minimal effort, and it only took two clicks to get to the forum. (Once on the google link and once on community) something anyone with two brain cells can figure out. Let alone a determined individual. There is no reason, why someone cannot make reference to words here. I understand that private posts to other members are confidential. But, anything you post in public, the public can see. So, I see no reason why a little copy and pasting is so bad w/o handles.

-Michael-

So, I see no reason why a little copy and pasting is so bad

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From the Community Guidelines: Who owns what I write here?

Each author is the sole owner of his or her own posts. Forums automatically expire posts written after a certain date, though, and your posts are deleted after that time. Nobody is allowed to reproduce your post under US copyright provisions unless you give explicit permission for them to do so or they are making use of part of your post under the 'fair use' provisions of copyright case law.

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Thats what's wrong with the copy and paste.

To me, what the issue really boils down to is simple respect. Respect of one another's thoughts, feelings, and words here. If someone knows you don't want something done, but does it anyway, they are saying, "I understand your wish, but I don't respect it."

I don't understand why this is so hard for people to understand.

DocJohns post was very good. I just think some people aren't capable of respect.

I've decided to no longer post anything personal in the community. I would be quite upset if someone took what I wrote and posted it outside the community. I will keep personal information to pm's with people I trust.

My posting in the community will from now on be support to others only if I decide to keep coming to this site.

I agree gem.

The bottom line is respect. Ive googled my nic and nothing comes up pertaining to me. Im not so sure this would be the case if i was discussed in a blog. Thing is, i should be able to determine where my posts go, not someone else. I really feel uncomfortable with the cutting and pasting and posting on a blog.

Its my post, leave it where i put it.

I think respect goes both ways. Maybe respect is not the right word.. Maybe just being considerate of others feelings is more accurate. On one hand everyone is asking folks to respect them but forgetting they too need to respect or be considerate of others.......

What an ingenious way to strike back by upsetting those who may have made one feel bad and still be keeping within the guidlelines. Feeling satisfied that I have the right to do this and still knowing it upsets others. It can only be a "short lived" good feeling because in the long run it will only cause resentment and rejection... I do not think it is rejection that we want.. I think the bottom line is we all want to feel validated and accepted....Some times it is good to stand out and alone and in other cases all it does is isolate one from the heart of the forums......And this is a lonely place to be...

I think none of this would have happened if some folks would have made the choice to "say nothing" rather than rushing in and badgering a persons experience or feelings. We all see the same sunset. But we all may feel or see or even express what we see in different ways. It does not mean one persons view of the sunset is wrong because it is different than how we see it.. We are allllll individuals with various backgrounds. Who are we to say a person's experience is wrong???? Can we just accept that is how they feel, think or experince things. And let it go.. Does it have to get to the point of bashing one's experiences??

An eye for an eye is not always the best solution. Thinking maybe it would be stronger to not isolate one's self by posting replies to member's posts in other online places and linking them to PC. Thinking a better solution would be to continue posting one's experiences, feelings and thoughts within the Psych Central community....And should one lash out, remind them they too need to show respect and consideration..........

We are all individuals, unique in many ways and we are all in the same "mental health" boat. Lets not throw those we disagree with overboard.. Let's try to grow, understand and at times be more tolerant. Life is too short to be fussing about other folks experiences when we ourselves have our own issues to work on......

Actually, just to make it clear, my comment was not aimed at Myself as I haven't been following the issue anyway.

After being survailled and analyzed in another online support community, I learned that just by typing in my user name at that site, my very posts came up in an online search. I was mortified. This hasn't happened here at this site, and, thus, why I've felt "safe" here until now. I came here with some serious issues, and was received with loving and insightful support and suggestions, without which I may not have recovered as soon as I did.
Now, I'm inclined to ask that ALL my previous posts be deleted, and I intend to ask one of the mods or Dr. John to do just that. I hope it can be done.
I have always been uncomfortable with the large number of anonymous viewers on PC, but dismissed it, naievely, as members who didn't wish to be shown online. Now, I'm not confident of that at all. I think, perhaps, the site would benefit from only allowing members who are logged in from viewing posts.
Patty

LOL no offense taken. I know you were making a general point not specifically directed at me. LOL

Hang in there.

My post asking to have all my previous threads removed is definitely not directed at you, Myself, though this issue brought up by your discussion of public availabililty of our threads makes me paranoid, and I don't want any of my previous posts available from here on. My posts from this point on will be confined to generic and neutral advice.
Patty

LOL OK I didn't even read that post but thanks for letting me know LOL

This is a serious issue for me here, Myself...I don't see why all the "LOL's"
Patty

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I have always been uncomfortable with the large number of anonymous viewers on PC,

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Seeker, I used to be like you until I pressed Doc John on the "anonymous" posters. He told me they aren't real people, JUST SOFTWARE. If you want, you can double check with him.

However, if I hadn't already been stalked here before, knowing that someone MAY copy one of my posts and use it elsewhere, to me, seems a violation of privacy. Doc John has insured that we cannot be Googled here on PC then to have someone take my words and use them where they CAN be Googled seems WAY WRONG to me!

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"> This is not a place for academic debate, for in-depth discussion and analysis of research and whether one treatment is proven more effective than another. While certainly some of that goes on here, it is *not* the community's main purpose."

Er... I have no idea what you are responding to here... But... I would have thought that those two things don't have to be exclusive.

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The words in italics are those of Doc John, the owner of this website. He was NOT responding to anything or anyone. He was making a clear statement of his expectations of the members of this board. To me that means no argument, no discussion. It is what it is.

**i don't think that Alexandra was fully aware of what this thread is about. i don't believe that she knew about the "blogging issue".........**

i agree with Radioflyer about the end result of taking posts from here to one's own blog.....it will be more isolating than anything else. it is only going to upset people more and i don't see how that could bring positive feelings to anyone's personal recovery.

in a way, it sounds like this to me.."if you're dumb enough to post your personal business here, then anyone can do anything they want to with it"...that's just plain disrespectful. and rude. and hurtful.

i ask again, how is that going to affect someone who has mental health issues? people come here because they HURT. they have questions, they're lonely, they are grieving, they are misunderstood and reaching out..perhaps for the first time ever, they are reaching out for help. and their posts belong to them. or not.

BUT, folks, if there isn't anything we can do about it....there isn't anything we can do about it. keep it to PMs and exchange e.mail addresses...and keep it fluffy.......xoxoxo pat

I just googled my nickname and it came up on a search because of my rating a drug here. Don't know if it matters to me or not. (ok-it's a little freaky)

>> This is not a place for academic debate, for in-depth discussion and analysis of research and whether one treatment is proven more effective than another. While certainly some of that goes on here, it is *not* the community's main purpose.

> The words in italics are those of Doc John, the owner of this website. He was NOT responding to anything or anyone.

What led me to think that he did indeed have a particular issue on his mind was the following:

>> If you don't understand this line, or the purpose of this line, you need to PM me to discuss privately.

> He was making a clear statement of his expectations of the members of this board.

It isn't very clear when the issue isn't articulated. Instead people are left wondering what the issue is about... Or they may simply take it to be about one thing when really it is about another...

I think I understand what this is about now, though of course I don't know for sure. I guess the only way I would know for sure would be if I were to PM him and ask him.

> To me that means no argument, no discussion. It is what it is.

Yes, that was the conclusion I jumped to. But on another reading... He allowed that some of this goes on here and he doesn't seem to be objecting to that so much as saying that the main aim of the site (support) takes priority.

I think that something that has emerged from this discussion (and other discussions I've had online) is that different people feel differently about privacy and about what constitutes a breech of privacy.

For example, I do not post anything that may lead someone to link my internet identity / identities to my RL identity. Why? Because I post very personal stuff under a couple of internet identities. I wouldn't want my supervisors or my RL aquaintances to know I had written that stuff.

What is on the internet is publicly viewable.

Some sites are more public than others, however. Some sites link the messages that are posted to google. Some sites are publicly viewable (like this one). Some sites require a password to read the messages, but the list of forums is publicly viewable (and sometimes the title of the most recent post). Some sites require a password to even view the list of forums.

But while it is best not to be overly paranoid about things... What is on the internet (including what is in your email in and outbox) can be viewed by third parties.

I do think it is wise to bear that in mind with what you post. I think the internet can lull people into a false sense of security on that score.

______________________________________

Different people do indeed have different notions of privacy. I've given my email address to a fair few people I've met on the internet now. One of those people decided to send group emails and thus my email address became available to a lot of people I knew who I hadn't exchanged email addresses with. I felt mad for a bit, yeah. But I sent an email to the person and asked her to please not do that because I considered it to be a breech in privacy. She apologised. She didn't think it was a breech in privacy she thought it was okay to share email addresses. Now she knows how I feel about it, however. I trust her not to do that again and now she realises that she should feel privaledged that I chose to give her my email address as I'm fairly careful about who I give it to. And... I'm talking about an anonymous hotmail / gmail address here, not my work email address that discloses my real name etc.

Regarding posts... It is possible for anybody on the internet to view psychcentral posts. It is also possible (though unlikely) that people could hack into someones PM's. The same way that it is possible (though unlikely) that people could hack into ones email account. Different people feel differently about what constitutes a breech of confidence / privacy.

If I copied someones post and saved it in a word document on my computer, for example I could be intending to:

- read the post when I'm feeling low because the I find the post to be uplifting in some way.
- read the post when I'm feeling better because the poster has hit upon issues that I need to work on.
- pass the post onto someone else becaue I think the post could help them.

There are many good (and well intentioned) reasons why one might do that. A person might do that *for those reasons* not at all intending to hurt anybody or breech anybodies privacy.

But of course there are a lot of less noble intentions as well.

To the best of my knowledge this site has the rule that what is on the board stays on the board so people shouldn't print out posts or copy them into something else and save them or forward them on etc. One probably isn't supposed to save or pass on a link to posts either.

I respect that.

But I do think that people should be careful about:
- Assuming that when someone breeches ones sense of privacy the person *intended* to do that.
- Assuming that when someone breeches ones sense of privacy the person has malevolent intent.
- Retaliating.

And one should remember that while posters on this site have probably read the rules lurkers here probably haven't. The only way that one could prevent lurkers doing the above things would be to not let lurkers view the site. But then... Less new posters would join up. And that wouldn't do anything with respect to the posters on the site who haven't really read the rules or who read the rules and decided to do it anyway...

Peace.