Boundaries, Respect, and Understanding

So, I see no reason why a little copy and pasting is so bad

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From the Community Guidelines: Who owns what I write here?

Each author is the sole owner of his or her own posts. Forums automatically expire posts written after a certain date, though, and your posts are deleted after that time. Nobody is allowed to reproduce your post under US copyright provisions unless you give explicit permission for them to do so or they are making use of part of your post under the 'fair use' provisions of copyright case law.

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Thats what's wrong with the copy and paste.

To me, what the issue really boils down to is simple respect. Respect of one another's thoughts, feelings, and words here. If someone knows you don't want something done, but does it anyway, they are saying, "I understand your wish, but I don't respect it."

I don't understand why this is so hard for people to understand.

DocJohns post was very good. I just think some people aren't capable of respect.

I've decided to no longer post anything personal in the community. I would be quite upset if someone took what I wrote and posted it outside the community. I will keep personal information to pm's with people I trust.

My posting in the community will from now on be support to others only if I decide to keep coming to this site.

I agree gem.

The bottom line is respect. Ive googled my nic and nothing comes up pertaining to me. Im not so sure this would be the case if i was discussed in a blog. Thing is, i should be able to determine where my posts go, not someone else. I really feel uncomfortable with the cutting and pasting and posting on a blog.

Its my post, leave it where i put it.

I think respect goes both ways. Maybe respect is not the right word.. Maybe just being considerate of others feelings is more accurate. On one hand everyone is asking folks to respect them but forgetting they too need to respect or be considerate of others.......

What an ingenious way to strike back by upsetting those who may have made one feel bad and still be keeping within the guidlelines. Feeling satisfied that I have the right to do this and still knowing it upsets others. It can only be a "short lived" good feeling because in the long run it will only cause resentment and rejection... I do not think it is rejection that we want.. I think the bottom line is we all want to feel validated and accepted....Some times it is good to stand out and alone and in other cases all it does is isolate one from the heart of the forums......And this is a lonely place to be...

I think none of this would have happened if some folks would have made the choice to "say nothing" rather than rushing in and badgering a persons experience or feelings. We all see the same sunset. But we all may feel or see or even express what we see in different ways. It does not mean one persons view of the sunset is wrong because it is different than how we see it.. We are allllll individuals with various backgrounds. Who are we to say a person's experience is wrong???? Can we just accept that is how they feel, think or experince things. And let it go.. Does it have to get to the point of bashing one's experiences??

An eye for an eye is not always the best solution. Thinking maybe it would be stronger to not isolate one's self by posting replies to member's posts in other online places and linking them to PC. Thinking a better solution would be to continue posting one's experiences, feelings and thoughts within the Psych Central community....And should one lash out, remind them they too need to show respect and consideration..........

We are all individuals, unique in many ways and we are all in the same "mental health" boat. Lets not throw those we disagree with overboard.. Let's try to grow, understand and at times be more tolerant. Life is too short to be fussing about other folks experiences when we ourselves have our own issues to work on......

Actually, just to make it clear, my comment was not aimed at Myself as I haven't been following the issue anyway.

After being survailled and analyzed in another online support community, I learned that just by typing in my user name at that site, my very posts came up in an online search. I was mortified. This hasn't happened here at this site, and, thus, why I've felt "safe" here until now. I came here with some serious issues, and was received with loving and insightful support and suggestions, without which I may not have recovered as soon as I did.
Now, I'm inclined to ask that ALL my previous posts be deleted, and I intend to ask one of the mods or Dr. John to do just that. I hope it can be done.
I have always been uncomfortable with the large number of anonymous viewers on PC, but dismissed it, naievely, as members who didn't wish to be shown online. Now, I'm not confident of that at all. I think, perhaps, the site would benefit from only allowing members who are logged in from viewing posts.
Patty

LOL no offense taken. I know you were making a general point not specifically directed at me. LOL

Hang in there.

My post asking to have all my previous threads removed is definitely not directed at you, Myself, though this issue brought up by your discussion of public availabililty of our threads makes me paranoid, and I don't want any of my previous posts available from here on. My posts from this point on will be confined to generic and neutral advice.
Patty

LOL OK I didn't even read that post but thanks for letting me know LOL

This is a serious issue for me here, Myself...I don't see why all the "LOL's"
Patty

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I have always been uncomfortable with the large number of anonymous viewers on PC,

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Seeker, I used to be like you until I pressed Doc John on the "anonymous" posters. He told me they aren't real people, JUST SOFTWARE. If you want, you can double check with him.

However, if I hadn't already been stalked here before, knowing that someone MAY copy one of my posts and use it elsewhere, to me, seems a violation of privacy. Doc John has insured that we cannot be Googled here on PC then to have someone take my words and use them where they CAN be Googled seems WAY WRONG to me!

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"> This is not a place for academic debate, for in-depth discussion and analysis of research and whether one treatment is proven more effective than another. While certainly some of that goes on here, it is *not* the community's main purpose."

Er... I have no idea what you are responding to here... But... I would have thought that those two things don't have to be exclusive.

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The words in italics are those of Doc John, the owner of this website. He was NOT responding to anything or anyone. He was making a clear statement of his expectations of the members of this board. To me that means no argument, no discussion. It is what it is.

**i don't think that Alexandra was fully aware of what this thread is about. i don't believe that she knew about the "blogging issue".........**

i agree with Radioflyer about the end result of taking posts from here to one's own blog.....it will be more isolating than anything else. it is only going to upset people more and i don't see how that could bring positive feelings to anyone's personal recovery.

in a way, it sounds like this to me.."if you're dumb enough to post your personal business here, then anyone can do anything they want to with it"...that's just plain disrespectful. and rude. and hurtful.

i ask again, how is that going to affect someone who has mental health issues? people come here because they HURT. they have questions, they're lonely, they are grieving, they are misunderstood and reaching out..perhaps for the first time ever, they are reaching out for help. and their posts belong to them. or not.

BUT, folks, if there isn't anything we can do about it....there isn't anything we can do about it. keep it to PMs and exchange e.mail addresses...and keep it fluffy.......xoxoxo pat

I just googled my nickname and it came up on a search because of my rating a drug here. Don't know if it matters to me or not. (ok-it's a little freaky)

>> This is not a place for academic debate, for in-depth discussion and analysis of research and whether one treatment is proven more effective than another. While certainly some of that goes on here, it is *not* the community's main purpose.

> The words in italics are those of Doc John, the owner of this website. He was NOT responding to anything or anyone.

What led me to think that he did indeed have a particular issue on his mind was the following:

>> If you don't understand this line, or the purpose of this line, you need to PM me to discuss privately.

> He was making a clear statement of his expectations of the members of this board.

It isn't very clear when the issue isn't articulated. Instead people are left wondering what the issue is about... Or they may simply take it to be about one thing when really it is about another...

I think I understand what this is about now, though of course I don't know for sure. I guess the only way I would know for sure would be if I were to PM him and ask him.

> To me that means no argument, no discussion. It is what it is.

Yes, that was the conclusion I jumped to. But on another reading... He allowed that some of this goes on here and he doesn't seem to be objecting to that so much as saying that the main aim of the site (support) takes priority.

I think that something that has emerged from this discussion (and other discussions I've had online) is that different people feel differently about privacy and about what constitutes a breech of privacy.

For example, I do not post anything that may lead someone to link my internet identity / identities to my RL identity. Why? Because I post very personal stuff under a couple of internet identities. I wouldn't want my supervisors or my RL aquaintances to know I had written that stuff.

What is on the internet is publicly viewable.

Some sites are more public than others, however. Some sites link the messages that are posted to google. Some sites are publicly viewable (like this one). Some sites require a password to read the messages, but the list of forums is publicly viewable (and sometimes the title of the most recent post). Some sites require a password to even view the list of forums.

But while it is best not to be overly paranoid about things... What is on the internet (including what is in your email in and outbox) can be viewed by third parties.

I do think it is wise to bear that in mind with what you post. I think the internet can lull people into a false sense of security on that score.

______________________________________

Different people do indeed have different notions of privacy. I've given my email address to a fair few people I've met on the internet now. One of those people decided to send group emails and thus my email address became available to a lot of people I knew who I hadn't exchanged email addresses with. I felt mad for a bit, yeah. But I sent an email to the person and asked her to please not do that because I considered it to be a breech in privacy. She apologised. She didn't think it was a breech in privacy she thought it was okay to share email addresses. Now she knows how I feel about it, however. I trust her not to do that again and now she realises that she should feel privaledged that I chose to give her my email address as I'm fairly careful about who I give it to. And... I'm talking about an anonymous hotmail / gmail address here, not my work email address that discloses my real name etc.

Regarding posts... It is possible for anybody on the internet to view psychcentral posts. It is also possible (though unlikely) that people could hack into someones PM's. The same way that it is possible (though unlikely) that people could hack into ones email account. Different people feel differently about what constitutes a breech of confidence / privacy.

If I copied someones post and saved it in a word document on my computer, for example I could be intending to:

- read the post when I'm feeling low because the I find the post to be uplifting in some way.
- read the post when I'm feeling better because the poster has hit upon issues that I need to work on.
- pass the post onto someone else becaue I think the post could help them.

There are many good (and well intentioned) reasons why one might do that. A person might do that *for those reasons* not at all intending to hurt anybody or breech anybodies privacy.

But of course there are a lot of less noble intentions as well.

To the best of my knowledge this site has the rule that what is on the board stays on the board so people shouldn't print out posts or copy them into something else and save them or forward them on etc. One probably isn't supposed to save or pass on a link to posts either.

I respect that.

But I do think that people should be careful about:
- Assuming that when someone breeches ones sense of privacy the person *intended* to do that.
- Assuming that when someone breeches ones sense of privacy the person has malevolent intent.
- Retaliating.

And one should remember that while posters on this site have probably read the rules lurkers here probably haven't. The only way that one could prevent lurkers doing the above things would be to not let lurkers view the site. But then... Less new posters would join up. And that wouldn't do anything with respect to the posters on the site who haven't really read the rules or who read the rules and decided to do it anyway...

Peace.

the laughing was at myself for I did not see that post and I normally do see posts like that. the kind of laughter of ok goes to show I was thinking of other things when I was reading. The laughter was not directed at you.

I agree with Special K in a way. I still stand by my original thoughts and say that if you do not want people to see it, don't post it, and don't get mad when someone reposts it. While it maybe one of the rules of this particular site that just about prohibits it; It's still going to happen no matter what you think or do or say. End of story. So, if someone decides to take your post and repost without a name; so what? There is nothing you can do to stop it. For all any of you know, someone could be comming here and taking all of one's posts and stalking them on the board. they could be cataloging every post. It's no shocker that someone out of the 12100 members would do something like that. It's just plain ignorant to assume that you are safe on the internet. you are in no way private here. ESPECIALLY on a public board. It's just plain naive to assume privacy as well. as well once more on a public board. You can come here for support, and help. The people here seem to be very good about that. But when it comes to privacy and safety here, I believe you are about as anonymous as a 800 pound gorilla in a pantry. I'm sorry if this makes anyone feel uncomfortable; But I speak the truth. Think about it.

-Michael-

HOW TRUE

Look at what happened to me the other night I was on another website and while they did not know who I was they were coming to psych central with out logging in. I know at least two out of the five were definiately NOT members here for they said so during the conversation, but anyway they came here and copied and pasted my posts and others from the community boards on that other website.

A friend of mine and I one night found a poem that she had wrote one night in a real time support group and had posted it in her blog and now it is on at least 8 different websites and not one of those people credited her, in fact they were claiming she wrote them. When she wrote to the webmasters (owners of those sites they told her too bad its on line in a public area that means its open to all the world to use as they see fit. The only way they would remove those posts with her poem was if she sent the webmaster copies of the library of congress paper saying they were legally copywrited by the library of congress. Shh now pay the library of congress $35.00 a poem for that official seal (as do I)

anyone can go anywhere on the world wide web and copy and past what they find.

Look how many times people here have gone to other blogs, and websites and have posted a quote from someone elses blog or a link or article or song lyrics or song vidoes, pet vidios, and other peoples quotes and in alot of cases it was probably done with out that websites or authors of the articles permission. How many of us actually write to sinead oconor, kenny chestney or who ever to obtain that permission. I know I do.

Heres another thing I just thought of to think about.... If we are following that site guideline that was previously quoted..... It may be on this site but even people within this site are quoting other members without obtaining their permission when they reply to that persons post. The site rule is that the posts are the posters and cannot be reposted without permission of the poster but yet this guideline is violated by many including me everyday where people are "quoting" or cut and pasting someone elses posts in order to form their replys - as for my posts I know that those that quote my posts and parts of my posts have not asked me permission to do so when they are making their replys. And I know that those that are posting quotes and or links of my posts and blog within their own blog did not ask my permission to do so.

I would think that if it is NOT acceptable for people to take what was said here within the community PUBLIC boards to outside places like blogs and other websites then the same should be followed within the community - in being That Quoting other peoples posts to reply is NOT acceptable and that its NOT acceptable to bring in from outside sourses like song lyrics, pictures, book quotes, other peoples blog entries, links to other mental health websites and so forth without the permission of the authors of those works.

I think sometimes people develop views that it is safe and private posting on the internet because... The alternative can seem a little too much to bear. Some people don't have anyone IRL that they can talk to about certain issues and problems they are experiencing. Psychcentral is supposed to be a safe place for people to post those questions, problems, thoughts, concerns, worries that they are having trouble talking to people about IRL.

I wouldn't want people to stop posting because they became concerned about their posts being used against them in some way...

But I do reccomend that people be careful about leaving a trail from their internet identifies back to their real life identities...

_____________________

Regarding quoting peoples posts off these boards and posting links off these boards to posts on these boards etc etc... I think that while Doc John and the mods here do their best to protect people from hurt as much as possible... If this site is anything like another (similar) site I've posted to there are around 4 lurkers for every poster.

What are those lurkers up to? Probably looking for people who have similar issues to them... Probably looking for answers to specific questions... Who knows really. I figure most lurkers are well intentioned. They get something from reading (maybe the answer to their question is on the boards already or maybe just seeing that there are other people struggling with the same / similar issues is enough for them).

I do think that privacy is something where it is important to respect someones wishes. I've had this issue come up for me when I really wanted to quote someones posts (not from this site) for a thesis I was writing... I wasn't sure whether it would be unethical for me to do that. The internet is the public domain after all. As someone has said... Posting messages to a publicly viewable internet board is a lot like posting a message to a bulletin board in a supermarket. Except... Maybe even worse than in the sense that you get a lot more through traffic on the net and supermarket bulletin boards aren't linked to by search engines!

I think it is important to respect and be sensitive to peoples feelings on that. Even if the laws are behind how people feel... If you are going to quote ask permission first. Same if you want to save someones post or print someones post. It can't hurt to ask. If you say to someone 'I really liked your post and I'd like to look at it when I'm feeling down' then the person is likely to feel good about themself. If you use it and they didn't know you had done that and they find out... They are more likely to feel violated and upset...

Thank you, for those of you who read and appreciated what I was saying.

Sadly, I see some people trying to hijack this thread to talk about their own specific situation, or to talk about something I wasn't referring to.

If you're going to disrespect members here, it is likely you won't remain a member of the community here very long. If you feel that "making a point" is more important than a human being, then perhaps this isn't the place for you right now.

DocJohn