[Heynonomous]

I am going to go to a counselor at my college, but I thought I would post my question here as well. I am a 32 year old male who is married to an amazing woman. My wife and I have a son who is 18 months old. About a week ago, I had a homicidal thought that involved my wife. I was stabbing her and cutting her. You must understand that I would never ever do that to her. I am not a violent person. I do not often get angry. The thought scared the crap out of me and sent me into depression. I couldn't sleep. The thought keeps playing in my head. I am beginning to think I am crazy and that somehow I am going to lose my mind and actually act on the thought. I get uneasy feelings around knives. The thoughts have now began to creep in about my son. I do not ever want to hurt my son or my wife. I wouldn't ever do it. I would kill myself before I ever hurt them. I love them! Am I crazy?! Do people have these thoughts? Here is some back info about me. I have no history of abuse or neglect. My biological father abused one of my aunts, but not me. He left when I was about 2. My mother worked a lot, but she always busted her butt to take care of me and my sister. Our house was burned down by a jealous man who my mother refused to date. I was about 4 years old. No one was home, so we weren't hurt in any way. We moved in with my grandparents. My grandfather had rabbits. I was playing with one of the rabbits and something happened where i tossed it across the room breaking its leg. I was exploring the rabbit and it didn't like it, so I think it bit me. Anyway, I felt so bad about it that I tried to make sure that the rabbit was eating and drinking over the next few days. The rabbit eventually died and I never told anyone. My grandfathet was also abrasive. he was known to be a little bit abusive at times. Once, he broke my finger on a piano for asking for money for jack and Jill. He never did anything worse than that. My mom met an amazing guy named George when i was 7. He was a great guy! I called him dad because he took care of us so well. He could be abrasive (hit with belt, grounded me, punched me once when I was over 18 and got cocky-I deserved it), but he really loved us. Since his arrival, our family added 2 other boys (mom and George had babies). The boys are awesome! One is 21 now and the other is 15. I had a sexual experience with my aunt's dog once. I was never aroused, but I did touch the dog inappropriately. The dog didn't mind, but I knew it was wrong. Also when i was younger, I experimented (never more than kissing) with my sister and a female cousin (not at the same time). Is all of this stuff normal? Or am I headed down a crazy road? Also my wife and I lost twins in 2010 to premature labor from a shortened cervix. That was very tough. In the same year, we lost George to cancer. 2010 was a tough year. Any idea where these thoughts are coming from and how to get rid of them?

[kaliope]

well according to my abnormal psych teacher...perfectly normal thoughts....I am glad that you are going to see a counselor...there is probably something stressing you out that led these thoughts to be triggered...and you have had some recent stressors....welcome to psych central. you will find that we have several forums where you can post about your concerns and receive feedback from other members. you will get lots of support here. again, welcome.

[mormor01]

My son is about your age, age 28, male, also going to school full time, has a nice girl friend and a nice group of three guys from middle school years who are still his friends today. He has good social support, grandparents, sister, and friends and when he calls me (mom) I listen and I try to calm him down and talk about how he is feeling. We are maybe starting to figure out that his recent imaginations about violent or inappropriate thoughts are stress related. For example, recently he had a series of thoughts about grabbing a knife in the kitchen and stabbing one of the people in the room. I scared him so much that he had to leave the party and come home. Yesterday, while standing in line at the grocery store, he had the image or idea come into his mind to grab the girl standing right behind him in the checkout line. Sounds similar to the thoughts about your wife and your children. In talking to my son (and he is seeing a counselor at school, too) we are trying to figure out if there are any special "triggers". I wanted to write to you when I read your blog because I see some similarities between your life and his. The thoughts are truly horrible and the thoughts seem very, very real to him also. The other similarities that I see with your story and his are: both of you seem to be very kind and gentle people who would never hurt anyone. My son, too, never raises his voice; he is always very quiet; does not like to fight with people. He studies a lot. He dislikes confrontation. He played sports all through high school, but he was not competitive. He did have a lot of hunting experience (too young?) with his father, uncles and grandfather. Also, similar to you, he has not had any abuse or neglect but his dad was kind of rough from time to time and never really listened, never could gain his praise nor respect/admiration. Since my son was always very "gentle" and "kind" maybe he was never able to speak up against any hurts, emotional or otherwise? I worked full-time all throughout his childhood. Lets keep talking, please. Most of my son's "images" in his mind do seem very, very real and they scare him. They also seem to involve females. One trigger for him is being in crowded places or too close to other people. This gives him anxiety. He suffers from a quick feeling of panic right away when the thought enters his brain, then he needs to get out of the situation right away. So it is the thoughts that give him the panic attack. Then, even though nothing has ever happened, he keeps on playing the images over and over in his head and this makes him feel even more guilty and scared that something really could happen, that he could loose control. His greatest fear is that he won't be able to control the thought and he will act on it. Thanks for sharing your story. I hope we can talk more about the similarities in your situation.

[BlueSoup]

I have been struggling with similar awful thoughts for a long time. I finally got help and was diagnosed with OCD. I am seeing a psychologist.

Not sure if this is what you are going through but here is a very helpful site for information:
harmocd.com | Harm OCD website

[Heynonomous]

Originally Posted by mormor01

My son is about your age, age 28, male, also going to school full time, has a nice girl friend and a nice group of three guys from middle school years who are still his friends today. He has good social support, grandparents, sister, and friends and when he calls me (mom) I listen and I try to calm him down and talk about how he is feeling. We are maybe starting to figure out that his recent imaginations about violent or inappropriate thoughts are stress related. For example, recently he had a series of thoughts about grabbing a knife in the kitchen and stabbing one of the people in the room. I scared him so much that he had to leave the party and come home. Yesterday, while standing in line at the grocery store, he had the image or idea come into his mind to grab the girl standing right behind him in the checkout line. Sounds similar to the thoughts about your wife and your children. In talking to my son (and he is seeing a counselor at school, too) we are trying to figure out if there are any special "triggers". I wanted to write to you when I read your blog because I see some similarities between your life and his. The thoughts are truly horrible and the thoughts seem very, very real to him also. The other similarities that I see with your story and his are: both of you seem to be very kind and gentle people who would never hurt anyone. My son, too, never raises his voice; he is always very quiet; does not like to fight with people. He studies a lot. He dislikes confrontation. He played sports all through high school, but he was not competitive. He did have a lot of hunting experience (too young?) with his father, uncles and grandfather. Also, similar to you, he has not had any abuse or neglect but his dad was kind of rough from time to time and never really listened, never could gain his praise nor respect/admiration. Since my son was always very "gentle" and "kind" maybe he was never able to speak up against any hurts, emotional or otherwise? I worked full-time all throughout his childhood. Lets keep talking, please. Most of my son's "images" in his mind do seem very, very real and they scare him. They also seem to involve females. One trigger for him is being in crowded places or too close to other people. This gives him anxiety. He suffers from a quick feeling of panic right away when the thought enters his brain, then he needs to get out of the situation right away. So it is the thoughts that give him the panic attack. Then, even though nothing has ever happened, he keeps on playing the images over and over in his head and this makes him feel even more guilty and scared that something really could happen, that he could loose control. His greatest fear is that he won't be able to control the thought and he will act on it. Thanks for sharing your story. I hope we can talk more about the similarities in your situation.

I really appreciate your response mormor01. Your son's situation sounds nearly identical to mine! It definitely helps to know that there are others out there who are going through the same things. I often wonder what triggered the initial thought of stabbing my wife (It pains me to even type that btw); however, I believe that the initial thought of homicide was so vivid and terrible that it has become the trigger. In any setting, that original thought makes you think "what if I snap here?" and that sends you into a panic. Whenever I see (or have to use) a knife, I cringe. I think to myself, "this is what you used in your thought about your wife..." and I am overcome with panic. I know in my heart of hearts that I would never harm such a wonderful, caring, beautiful person whom I love unconditionally. In all honesty, I would have second thoughts about harming (let alone killing) a mortal enemy! So you can imagine how it must have made me feel to have that thought! And then to think to myself, "is my son safe with me?" It makes me cry thinking about it! Here is an indication of the way I really feel about my son: this past weekend he had a very high fever. I was so worried about him! My wife and I took him to the ER. The entire time we were there, I was upset. I was worried that there was something terribly wrong. I believe that losing our twins put me into this constant worry. I didn't want to lose them...and I certainly do not want to lose our son (again, it pains me to even think about that)! I truly would never hurt anyone. I am worried that my thoughts are going to turn into actions, but then again, I would definitely hurt myself before I ever hurt anyone else. I think your son is probably the same way. He should reassure himself that he would never hurt anyone. It is so good that he is talking to someone about it. I find that just talking about it helps a little bit. I do not want these thoughts lingering around anymore, and I know your son doesn't either! Thanks again for your post, and may God bless you and your family!

[Heynonomous]

BlueSoup...I read through that website and it made me cry my eyes out. Understand that I am a grown man...in school right now...in a closed computer cubicle...crying. The website described my situation to a T. I am looking at you and your post as God's way of answering my prayers to crawl out of this funk. All I want is for these thoughts to go away and to feel normal again. I want to be able to sit with my son and not think that he is somehow in danger with me. I want to sleep next to my wife. hold her, and kiss her without feeling like she may be in terrible danger with me. I want to be in social settings where I don't think about this being the place I will start killing people. It seems that this website is my starting space, and that the finish line is coming into view. I do not know you, but somehow I will love you forever. Thank you for sharing that information with me.

[BlueSoup]

Originally Posted by Heynonomous

BlueSoup...I read through that website and it made me cry my eyes out. Understand that I am a grown man...in school right now...in a closed computer cubicle...crying. The website described my situation to a T. I am looking at you and your post as God's way of answering my prayers to crawl out of this funk. All I want is for these thoughts to go away and to feel normal again. I want to be able to sit with my son and not think that he is somehow in danger with me. I want to sleep next to my wife. hold her, and kiss her without feeling like she may be in terrible danger with me. I want to be in social settings where I don't think about this being the place I will start killing people. It seems that this website is my starting space, and that the finish line is coming into view. I do not know you, but somehow I will love you forever. Thank you for sharing that information with me.

You're so welcome! I only recently found out what I am dealing with myself, it's painful to say the least. If you decide to seek out treatment, do your homework! Make sure you find someone who is trained and specialized with handling OCD. Make sure you are not one of their first cases and that they have worked with many before you.

My OCD is complex, there are many types. You may find that you have more than one type. I reluctantly made the decision to try medication along with therapy. The medication has helped to "clear my head", I'm starting to feel a little better. Therapy works much better when you are able to think clearly!

I wish you all the best! Message me if you ever need someone to talk to who knows what you are going through

Here is another link for you:
International OCD (Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) Foundation

[mormor01]

Thanks so much to both of you, Heynonomous and BlueSoup. Thanks to Heynonomous for your original post. It was so comforting to finally, finally begin to feel that someone was going through the same thing and that we are not alone and its not so strange and it was from your first description of what you are going through that I immediately saw so very many comparisons between you and my son. I Thank you from the bottom of my heart for SHARING here!!! This has been a blessing to us. Thank you also to BlueSoup for your response and your links. I too cried when I started reading. That was the greatest help to me because I did not even know that such a thing as HarmOCD existed until you pointed me in the right direction. My son has started seeing a therapist and they are doing something called cognitive behavior therapy. When I went to the harmocd.com website I felt hope that finally we are starting on the right path. Again, Thank you so very, very much to both of you and God Bless!

[mormor01]

I have found a really interesting book called The Quick Anger Makeover: Twenty Cutting Edge Techniques to Release Anger. The author is Dr. Lynne Namka. The purchase price is pretty cheap, only about $20.00. I am just starting to read it and I mailed a copy to my son at school. (Contact information is Talk, Trust & Feel Therapeutics, 5398 Golden Ranch Road, Tucson, AZ 85739 (520)825-0555.) I really like it because it has a lot of concrete exercises to do. For example, "5 step thought-monitoring exercise" to help you with thinking patterns, and "Are you secretly angry? a checklist of hidden animosity", and "Cues, a checklist" which helps you look for and identify adrenalin rush cues, physical cues, overall muscular tension patterns, emotional cues, behavioral cues, cognitive cues. All this seems directed at analyzing your anger (your own individual case) and learning how to "do it better next time." Chapter 4 is all about "Anger is Related to Trauma that wants Healing" and, also very interesting for me, Chapter 6 "Anger Can Originate from a Failure of Parenting" which describes in great detail and explains some common coping patterns of children from dysfunctional families - which section is very, very interesting. I highly recommend this book. It is full of techniques and questionnaires and lots of exercises to do. It is really like a workbook to help you work through a lot of stuff on a very, very individual basis. I am working through it myself now. It talks about guilt and shame, and when shame becomes rage, and describes guilt "precipitated not by wrongdoing but because of underlying feelings of worthlessness." The book is very helpful. I will probably read it several times. The best part I think is that the book is so interactive - you have lots of questions to answer as you go through it and the answers are uniquely your own so you learn a lot about yourself and your family.

[mormor01]

I found one more thing I want to share. This is from OCD-UK org website. It is a 22 page guide. "To help you understand "Pure-O" is the name of the guide. You can find it there in pdf format and download to print/read. (Just type "what is pure o?" in the search field and it will bring up a page, then click on the blue letters: "What is Pure O?" this will take you to the pdf file. Finally, after reading this, I started to get a clearer picture of the cycle - what actually happens when someone has a scary thought.

I learned that the "trigger" is any scary thought (doesn't matter what) and next, what follows is actually the OBSESSIVE part, is the thought responses to that trigger, i.e. an avalanche of response questions: am I giving in? have I stopped caring? do I actually want this? (So,the trigger event, thinking of something that we all are capable of doing like causing harm, stabbing with a knife, steering into oncoming traffic, inflicting sexual abuse, shouting something offensive or inappropriate, the trigger thought is not the Obsession, that is only the trigger.) Again, the intrusive thought is only the trigger and it is the complete opposite of your true feelings.

Then, immediately after the trigger, begins the constant and continual checking yourself that feeds upon those deep, innermost fears that exist within us all (I'm afraid I might give in, I must have stopped caring, maybe I want this? worry, worry, worry, "worst case scenario", what if I really want this? how could I even think of this? how could I even imagine this? what if I could do it? if I could think this, then maybe I could do this? how would I live with myself? have I stopped caring about this person? am I human? do I want this to happen? am I giving in? am I letting go" am I going to let this happen?) and so you question, question, question yourself. That is the Obsessive behavior. And these questions/thoughts are based upon the wholly unjustified worry that you'll "cause" or "will" something very much unwanted to happen. In other words, your obsessive behavior, the OBSESSION is that you question yourself and accuse yourself of being responsible for the thought, accuse yourself of being guilty when nothing happened, just the thought, accuse yourself over and over, think of every possible variation, shame yourself, guilt yourself and continue to accuse yourself, re-imagine the worst case thought, over and over - this is the Obsessive (thoughts only) part. The obsessive part is called "feeding the fear" because you keep on accusing yourself. The self accusations are continuing and constant (when in truth and fact, thoughts are just thoughts; they are weightless and immaterial.)
Next, the cycle continues when the COMPULSIVE behavior, or CANCELLING behavior kicks in and you fight to maintain control and reassure yourself that you won't actually do anything. One might tense up, use unseen mental rituals, sweat, twitch, freeze all muscles, resist, focus on the fear, challenge the thought, question yourself, analyze and re-analyze, all to frantically resist a thought that is actually the complete opposite of your true feelings. With Pure-O this part is unseen. Apparently there are a wide variety of cancelling behaviors, most unseen to others, but they are used to reassure yourself that you won't actually do anything. There is a massive need for reassurance and sometimes, the need for reassurance results in avoidance. (In fact, the guide suggests that sufferers of OCD should be actually be encouraged by their support group, to resist avoidance behavior.)

It now is more clear to me - the "unfair taunt" of obsessive thoughts (telling you that "you might give in") is frightening (when in reality that is the last thing that you want), and together with your responsive compulsive/cancelling behaviors that are usually not too helpful, all this leaves one exhausted, and sometimes pretty depressed.

I would be very interested to hear if anyone feels like this is the cycle that they suffer.
And, what are people doing to break the cycle? What kind of support helps you?
Do you challenge the trigger? because most thoughts are no worse that a bad Halloween movie? Or do you try to figure out WHY you are so self accusatory, why are we all so very hard on ourselves and self castigating? Or do you try to change or improve the cancelling behaviors or do you sometimes use avoidance?

Finally, once you find yourself deep in the thought cycle, how do you self reassure yourself more quickly and more effectively in order to get out of the cycle?

Thanks so much for any tips or insight. I appreciate all of you so much! And I appreciate Psych Central for making being here!

[StrongerMan]

I think a lot of people get these intrusive thoughts from time to time as a manifestation of anxiety. Problems occur when we begin to obsess over them or they become compulsive (we feel driven to act on them). I, for instance, have experienced a period of discomforting thoughts of harming my cat. These thoughts go away after a while so I know I am not obsessing over them and I don't feel compelled to act on them. When they are gone, I can't even imagine thinking that way. Years ago, my older sister revealed she had a period of similar thoughts about her cats and she is the biggest cat lover I know. Also, innocent experimentation and play acting sexual curiosity among playmates, siblings and, yes, animals, is common in children especially as they near puberty as the release of hormones causes changes in the brain affecting emotions and judgement. They are not capable of fully understanding what they are doing. Of course, if they become overly preoccupied with it and/or act abusively, then it is a problem.

[shezbut]

Thank you very much for sharing your experience and the things that you've found via internet. It looks like fascinating information...that's for sure!

Have you ever talked with your wife about these thoughts and emotions, or is she in the dark about these things still?

Regarding intense obsessions ~ I have suffered these for many years. Never even understood what it was until I read this thread & now it makes some sense to me. I had a rather crazy "childhood", a lot of abusive & very inappropriate things occurred to/with me.

I can't recall how old I was when it started, but I distinctly recall imagining giving pre-pubescent boys bj's. I have felt SO much shame and self-disgust for these thoughts that I've only told 1 person in my entire life: my current T. (And I don't believe that I was as specific as I was just now either) I am really battling the intense impulse to delete what I said, because these thoughts as so shameful!

I had several real-life experiences with boys and then men when I was around 5 or 6 years old, and 12-15 y.o. So, I've never been able to understand WHY these thoughts would ever pop into my head. I would NEVER act upon these impulses! But, what do they mean?? Why do they haunt me still?? Am I a sick POS or what?!! And, as you can imagine, my self-hate thoughts continue and increase from this point.

[StrongerMan]

I am confident that many more people have such intrusive thoughts than we know of. It's just our mysterious brain at work.

[Quantaray]

When a person has repetitive thoughts of themselves doing unspeakable things, a side effect is increased anxiety and depression. There is a lot of self-recrimination and loathing. So even though the thoughts are harmless in themselves it's important to remember that they don't mean you will some day carry them out. And, stopping the inner dialogue that you're somehow "messed up" or a psychopath is key.

I've lived with this condition for decades, but it doesn't bother me to the extent that it did before.

[-jimi-]

I hadn't had much harm OCD since I was 14 but few years ago it really came back with a vengeance. The reason? Untreated strep infection. After it healed properly from my brain, took about a year, the thoughts disappeared totally. I should say I had OCD all my life almost. I also had increased worries from Lyme. Sometimes bacteria can really cause this, even if it seems weird.

[mormor01]

From page 5 of "Your Quick Anger Makeover" by Lynne Namke, Ed.D. of Talk, Trust and Feel Therapeutics.
She says "The best thing that you can do for yourself, and those you love, is learn to recognize, name, express and regulate our feelings. Calling the feeling out by name puts it on notice. Successful fantasy writers and horror movie makers know that before you can kill the demon, you must say its name out loud! So tell yourself, I give my body one hundred percent permission to call it out by name and feel it briefly. My clever mind will do something and just deal with it!

It takes an enormous amount of perseverance and determination.
It is so very true that with great shame attached to the thoughts, it can be extremely difficult to talk about and to confront the thoughts. But, good for you for starting this journey!! Kudos to you for starting to say these feelings and thoughts out loud!

P.S. I just want to add that Quantaray is very correct in saying that, "stopping the inner dialogue that you're somehow "messed up" or a psychopath is key."

[eternaldamnation]

heal the violations between the two of you. be careful in conversation, the things you say to each other, and the way it's said. do you argue? name call? criticize each other?

heal it.

[too SHy]

I feel compelled to respond, but I pray, or read a passage in the bible or prayerbook, This helps me very much