We can be honest without being rude.

[Boopers]

This is so true. There is no need for anyone to be rude. If we are to be honest, it needs to come from the heart.

Linda

[__zh]

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time0 said:
We can be honest without being rude.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
perhaps another way of saying that could be we can speak freely if we hold our punches....

let us talk if there is no stooping to derogatory remarks

rudeness does not need to have a place, be interjected, inserted in honest conversation

do any of these rephrasings resemble your original quote and intent? seriously as we're so tired that we're trying to see how horrible our spelling can be...no really we're trying to wrap our brain around your quote.

by rephrase attempts we're showing possible angles or interpretations that might be made of the orignal quote.

this makin' any sense or have we rounded that bend?

[Bethsway]

so true...if you need to say something derogatory...do it in the kindness way you can...and always letting the person know that you still love them...

I will clarify this post as a moderator asked me to do so. Some people in here think I'm talking about them here. I am not. My posts are never about anyone in PC. Never.

I met my mother and sister last week They are rude people and they sure can push their way. They are proud to be rude. They call this honesty.

I am also honest but I am not rude. I don't beleive in hurting people. I don't beleive in yelling and putting people down with mean words.

I can be honest without being rude.

[AlteredState01]

Honest words can be misconstrued as being rude. I think it just depends on how one feels at the time.

Being honest means having to be blunt sometimes. Being blunt is, quite often, considered rude.

I find, IRL, most people have difficulty expressing truths (for whatever reason) and therefore, end up "beating around the bush," so to speak. With some such people, honest and straightforward words often shock, and give rise to an impression of rudeness.

Altered State

[__zh]

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AlteredState01 said:
Honest words can be misconstrued as being rude. I think it just depends on how one feels at the time.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> so true! especially with the issues of depression, anxiety, bipolar, personality disorders, etc. so many of us can take things personally that were never directed at us in the first place!!</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>

Being honest means having to be blunt sometimes. Being blunt is, quite often, considered rude.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> yep. self proclaimed hussy---loud brazen woman. the brazen part is what is often a balance between truth and lack of sugarcoating.</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I find, IRL, most people have difficulty expressing truths (for whatever reason) and therefore, end up "beating around the bush," so to speak. With some such people, honest and straightforward words often shock, and give rise to an impression of rudeness.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> bingo!! astute observation AS01.

yep. when protected all one's life from direct, straightforward words it can be shocking ot hear or read truths.

look at all the ways of saying it: unvarnished truth, beating around the bush, non-sugarcoated words, cold hard reality, etc.

seems that sometimes society urges the insertion of lessening the blow of honesty with some untruths? not expressing thought well but again putting it out there in hopes of continues conversation as this thread is most intersting to us.

very sorry you had to deal with family members like that time0...they sound dreadful

i finally got up the nerve to speak honestly to my "mean" sister last week and she got all huffy and said i was rude. i told her that "i've been rude before when i didn't tell you the truth, now i'm being honest with you about how you hurt me and i don't consider it rude".

i've always acted like her words don't hurt me and it shocked her when i called her on it with the truth...it's true, the shock of hearing the truth can mean different things to different people. to me it was very liberating and she was much nicer to me yesterday......

[AlteredState01]

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self proclaimed hussy---loud brazen woman

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Me, too!

I was always an impatient sort and I just got tired of having to listen to all the "pomp and circumstance" that is continuously being wrapped around the truth. This "pomp and circumstance" can and does lead one to believe a situation to be less or more serious than it actually is; or designed to mislead one so as not to be able to grasp the full reality of the truth; or (as politicians love) to "spin" the truth, so much so, that one never really knows where the other stands on certain issues.

I guess, in keeping in line with this thinking, one could definitely say, as you have, that we are indeed, "lessening the blow of honesty with some untruths," as anything added, left out, or redirected, could be considered untruths.

With all the "political correctness" one must adhere to these days, it's no wonder people don't understand what another is trying to say. We are so caught up in "semantics," that the truth is often the last thing to be considered in a statement.

I suppose that is why I tend to be so blunt, now. Of course, it does not excuse the tone I choose to use (often sarcastic), nor the level of vulgarity. I know I must alter my speach/writing depending on whom I am speaking to (I would not speak to my mother in the same words as I would to, say, a hard-core, out-law biker gang member - although both cases would warrant me having to be quick to run!!). Nevertheless, if I am always more concerned with how I may be perceived by my choice of words than what I am trying to say, then I can see the truth being hidden to the point where it is not visible at all. I would rather my words be truthful and my personality slammed than vice-versa. I will not last forever, but the truth will.

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"It hurts to hear the truth when we are so invested in our own deception."__zh

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I noticed this quote in your bio, zh. It is very good. It says so much about the reality of life and how the truth of matters can end up being so twisted, and not just individually, but socially as well, don't you think?

Being borderline, I always want to stick with black and white thinking.

I think that is why I ended up so disoriented when I was wallowing around in the grey area of life. At that time, I had no black or white anchors (boundaries, beliefs, personal truism, etc.). Now, of course, I am too rigid most of the time, preferring the black and white (which, to me, translates into "truth" and safety), yet it has cost me much of my "social life," because I am seen as a loud, brazen and "rude" person. Which do I prefer? Guess. (It shouldn't be that hard if one has read any of my posts).

I also understand that, in order to successfully "integrate" into society again, I must be more flexible in accepting others' opinions within the "grey" areas, but it does not mean I have to accept them as my own, nor integrate them into my own beliefs (which I always thought I had to, in order to remain a social person).

As I progress in my therapy and as I age, I am finding that I am both hardening myself in some areas and relearning to soften myself in others. I feel good about this concept (although I am not very successful at it just yet, especially when I am deep inside my illness), because it is the only alternative I can think of in order to resume a relatively normal (social) life.

But for the most part, I think my personality is quite set and I don't forsee it changing all that much anymore. I don't know if I want it to, to some degree. As a matter of fact, now that I think about it, I don't know why I am so overly concerned about it at this point in my life. It must be as a result of my still-immature emotional level, because logically, I can understand my need to be this way.

A long-time friend of my mother's recently passed away. She was not liked by many people because she never minced her words - EVER! I found this very educational (and entertaining, even when she was focused on me) to watch the reactions of people she would talk to. I often found myself defending her and bringing to light, the value of her ways. Although I didn't get any affirmation from anyone of this, no one ever argued against it, either. I guess the truth hurt too much?

My father absolutely HATED her, because she was the ONLY ONE who would call him on his BS about his drinking. She was the only one who had the guts to talk about the truth. Of course, it made everyone upset (except me), because no one ever confronted the truth like she did. But she paid a price for being honest - way too big a price, I think, for actually being the type of person we all supposedly aspire to be - honest and real. Most thought she was too blunt - that she should not be so outspoken about things - but she was just telling the truth; no sugar added. Never did she once use "truth" to hurt us, nor to put us down. She just spoke plainly and honestly when an issue was brought up. (Rest in peace, May. I adored you...)

Everyone considered her to be rude. I considered her to be honest and straightforward. I admired her tremendously for that because I knew exactly where she stood, what she believed in and so on. I therefore, knew where I stood with her always. Having that type of relationship made me feel solid, and grounded. And that is so comforting if one thinks about it. She had much empathy, she was so giving and so kind, she was demanding when it came to honesty, and she was rejected just for that - without consideration for all her other qualities. No one could "see" her real spirit except for a very few, and those few seemed to be all she needed anyway, because she was always happy and healthy and active. Something else: even when I knew where someone stood insofar as NOT liking me, I also felt solid and grounded in that relationship, and could deal with it in a responsible and mature way.

So, the quote: "It hurts to hear the truth when we are so invested in our own deception," resonates deeply.

I don't know about anyone else, but I desperately need TRUTH in order for me to continue to exist and for me to heal. Without it, I am still just wandering around - lost - in the "grey areas." It's time for my "emotional" state to grow up and match my "logical" state. Now, that is honesty. It is blunt and I don't like it (and I can hear the emotional child starting to whine already).

Is it rude to state my reality in this way? Let's see... I am basically saying to myself - GROW UP! How rude!! But that is exactly what my "emotional self" must do. That is my truth. To say it any other way just lessens the reality and prolongs the agony.

If I can find the strength to always face my reality and hear my reality as plainly as possible, I have a better chance of changing my reality. Unfortunately, this is always easier said than done, because I am constantly looking for other ways of framing my situation so as to avoid "facing" the truth, and I don't "believe" what I hear anymore because of all the BS swirling around the truth that I end up getting all tangled up in first (including my own BS).

One realization I had is this: the more complex I make an issue, the more screwed up I get; and the less I am able to focus, the less headway I make. Both these situations arise out of my losing site of the truth of the matter.

Like the good ol' words of AA: KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid (or Silly, depending on your group).

I know some may argue the point that I have an advantage of hindsight because of my age and I cannot deny this. You couldn't have convinced me of this truth when I was in my teens, 20's and even part of my 30's. Hell, it's hard to hold onto this truth even as I progress into my mid-40's! But just as a child needs all things explained simply and truthfully in order to understand properly, so do I, in many instances, and it does me no favours to hear alot of "pomp and circumstance" around these explanations, maybe even more so when considering my mental illness(es)?

And really, what pushes us to grow emotionally, but truth, reality and logic. I mean, who would want to grow up if we had the choice to avoid truth, reality and logic, and remain in that blissful world of make-believe where all things are wonderful and magical all the time? (Go with me on this last statement, because we all have experienced the greatness of innocence no matter how horrible a childhood we had, ok?)

Wow , nothing like a thought run amok.... Man, I hope this makes sense, otherwise I'm checking myself in 'tout de suite!'

AS

[SeptemberMorn]

Thank you SO MUCH for that! You are so very right! And please... anytime your thoughts want to "run amok" let them! There's a lot of wisdom there!

[__zh]

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fayerody said:
i finally got up the nerve to speak honestly to my "mean" sister last week and she got all huffy and said i was rude. i told her that "i've been rude before when i didn't tell you the truth, now i'm being honest with you about how you hurt me and i don't consider it rude".

i've always acted like her words don't hurt me and it shocked her when i called her on it with the truth...it's true, the shock of hearing the truth can mean different things to different people. to me it was very liberating and she was much nicer to me yesterday......

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> good for you for speaking up!

like time0 started this thread out...we CAN be honest w/o being rude.

AS01 develops on this idea with a really great post as well.

this is good to read about how you and time0 and AS have stuck up for yourselves in various situations.

good thread time0 (non-posting but maybe lurking......maybe)

[__zh]

we can only say that your post is top notch.....goes into favourites for sure.

amazing expansions on ideas and great examples of personal situations shared.

sadly this ol' brain is cracked. hit the wall. had to take day down yesterday to avoid total collapse. still not ok yet w/o headache amazing how much better even pain can feel.

can't put together two sentences well enough to respond adequately but really wanted to say thumbs up on a great post. you explain your personal scenarios clearly and continue on with your insights and way you would talk to yourself.

all this is a good peek into a mind that has done much work and isn't afraid to say there's always more to be done.....AND that we're not always going to be able to change in ways we want so acceptance plays large role in how we perceive any given situation. thanks for that peek!!

did that make sense? really tired still so posting while tired is like driving while tired.....not wise and rather embarassing to see the damage afterward.

sometimes pulling over instead of driving is the right thing to do.....maybe we oughta pulled our fingers offa da keyboard instead of typing?

kindly and very very tiredly,

[Perna]

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time0 said:
We can be honest without being rude.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
I think it's called "tact" but I am not well acquainted with it yet but still trying

[__zh]

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Perna said:
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time0 said:
We can be honest without being rude.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
I think it's called "tact" but I am not well acquainted with it yet but still trying

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> lmao! oh perna you're funny!

tact, we've heard of that as well...perhaps someday it will come and nibble on our tush?

maybe not wearing a horned viking helmet would help? hahah

[cynicalsierra]

I know i am honest but it comes out rude. I dont intend for it to it just does.

[JustAPixie]