i have always been sympathetic to anti/critical psychiatry views - But i do find my perspectives/opinions slightly changing.

i think there is a Denial of illness with Anti-psychiatry, & it doesn't sit right with me.

Regardless of whys & wherefores (questions that can't be categorically answered) - i was in a highly psychologically/emotionally disturbed, very extreme state - that lead me to the doors of psychiatry.

i remember when i was first admitted - The psychiatrist said should we have left you running around the countryside in a highly disturbed state? i think he had a point.

i can't understand the worried well & people with less severe conditions/experiences taking issues, especially with being drugged. But what about those with a pre-existing severe condition?

i'm all for a shift/change to the system, to far more humane, holistic & comprehensive, psychological & social support approaches - to far more caring & understanding systems of care. But to deny that there is any problem to begin with, & to deny the severity of the problem? It seems silly in some cases...

[kaliope]

i think diagnosing and meds are way over done and that is part of the problem. the issue of every child who misbehaves and doesnt pay attention in class as having a psychological problem and needing to be medicated is ridiculous.

but some people go way overboard. i went many years, many years without help. and it took a long time for me to accept that i was ill and a complete breakdown for me to get on meds. and they completely changed my life.

but i still get people, even in the mental health profession, who tell me the whole field is a fraud. and this messes with my mind cause i was against it so long and would rather not take meds. i had a hypnotherapist who told me my bipolar was just because i wasnt accessing the correct part of my brain. boy did that throw me for a loop.

our mental health system is severely messed up. there is no consistency from professional to professional. is there even an answer for this?

Got banned from the 'Mad in America' web site - Was defending the validity of psychiatric diagnoses & reality of severe mental illness. The place seems to be a hot bed of extreme anti-psychiatry views.

[Bark]

Originally Posted by Apotheosis

Got banned from the 'Mad in America' web site - Was defending the validity of psychiatric diagnoses & reality of severe mental illness. The place seems to be a hot bed of extreme anti-psychiatry views.

Wow. If you got banned, and you're more critical than I am... kind of scares me who posts there.

Originally Posted by Bark

Wow. If you got banned, and you're more critical than I am... kind of scares me who posts there.

Very pure form of Szasz'esque anti-psychiatry - mental illness is a myth & doesn't exist, & they're calling for the complete abolition of all psychiatry.

Have never accused anti/critical psychiatry people of being Scientologists - But i really wonder with them on there?

[Nammu]

Extremists in any form scare me. They are running at full gallop with blinders on and can't see the cliffs. But those kinds of people sometimes have lots of money and money influences society and laws. It's like back when they decided that long term hospitals were a bad, bad thing. It was empty the hospitals at all costs. No follow up no understanding that there needed to be a gradual transition and supports put into place.

Those that are antipsychiatry go too far, is there reason to believe that too many people are getting labeled and medicated, yeah. Does that mean that there're no people who do have an illness and do get help from meds and therapy? No.

[Hellion]

I'd have to agree with you, I mean I am aware the flaws in psychology and corruption within the big pharma industry and how it influences treatment/prescribing of drugs. But all that does not negate that there is a problem of some sort needing some sort of treatment/remedy/support. I have sort of gotten a hint of disdain from anti-psychaitry people before when I explain my awareness of the problems in the mental health system...but that I still have problems what prevent my proper functioning(then they scream 'what proper functioning, nothing wrong with you'....and its like right than why is it I used to be a total bookworm and now I can hardly get through 5 pages of a book in one sitting after experiencing a traumatic event, why did I try to off myself when I was 15 it just would not add up that there is nothing wrong whatsoever.

I certainly agree with a humane approach that really takes into account the thoughts and feelings of those with mental conditions/illnesses, instead of treating us like nothing more than a blank slate with a set of symptoms...or getting defensive of their ego if a patient as input/concerns about their condition or treatment like we shouldn't dare think we have any insight into ourselves. But that is not to say everything is peachy and all the symptoms are really 'gifts' that really is ridiculous, concentration difficulties is not a 'gift' nor is feeling empty/depressed and other things.

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by Apotheosis

Very pure form of Szasz'esque anti-psychiatry - mental illness is a myth & doesn't exist, & they're calling for the complete abolition of all psychiatry.

Have never accused anti/critical psychiatry people of being Scientologists - But i really wonder with them on there?

kind of funny they use the term 'mad' then for their site....mad used in that way refers to psychological problems, disorder of the mind, mental illness, craziness, insanity.....yet trying to claim none of that exists. Perhaps its that their problem is refusing to use the frontal lobe and treatment providers have mistaken it for mental illness, so these people feel slighted and figure throwing the baby out with the bath-water is the best option...do they even believe in the frontal lobe or is that all psychiatric propaganda to them as well?

Originally Posted by Hellion

kind of funny they use the term 'mad' then for their site....mad used in that way refers to psychological problems, disorder of the mind, mental illness, craziness, insanity.....yet trying to claim none of that exists. Perhaps its that their problem is refusing to use the frontal lobe and treatment providers have mistaken it for mental illness, so these people feel slighted and figure throwing the baby out with the bath-water is the best option...do they even believe in the frontal lobe or is that all psychiatric propaganda to them as well?

They deny that there are any provable biological markers to mental health problems.

Their argument is that people have difficulties, but it can't be classed as mental illnesses - & that diagnoses are baseless. It's all very Szasz, who i think has been largely refuted & who i personally disagree with. Szasz said it was all problems in living etc.

The site mission of MIA is apparently to transform the MH system - but it appears to have been hijacked with a very extreme anti-psychiatry agenda.

i'm critical of the current mental health system & psychiatry - But i think some of their views go way too far - & i wonder what the alternatives are? Primarily i think everything should be focused on genuinely helping & supporting people - Not on endless polemics.

Would be interested in the views of anyone else that has had an involvement with the MIA web site?

[*Laurie*]

I am not in favor of people taking meds if they are not needed. BUT I know WAY too many people who would truly benefit from meds (as in: have a functional life, stop losing jobs and relationships, not live in a filthy home, etc.) if they just took medication. Frankly, I allow myself limited or no contact with people I know who obviously need meds but refuse to take them. I don't think that anyone *likes* being on medication, but some of us have to accept that medication helps not only ourselves, but those who are around us.

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by PoppyRoad

I am not in favor of people taking meds if they are not needed. BUT I know WAY too many people who would truly benefit from meds (as in: have a functional life, stop losing jobs and relationships, not live in a filthy home, etc.) if they just took medication. Frankly, I allow myself limited or no contact with people I know who obviously need meds but refuse to take them. I don't think that anyone *likes* being on medication, but some of us have to accept that medication helps not only ourselves, but those who are around us.

Granted there are people that do benefit from medications that might refuse to take them....but do keep in mind people don't always react well to medications, sometimes the medication won't help or might add to problems that plays into a lot of peoples resistence to taking a given medication...its not always as simple as people refusing to do something that helps them.

[*Laurie*]

Originally Posted by Hellion

Granted there are people that do benefit from medications that might refuse to take them....but do keep in mind people don't always react well to medications, sometimes the medication won't help or might add to problems that plays into a lot of peoples resistence to taking a given medication...its not always as simple as people refusing to do something that helps them.

I am referring to people who function better on medication than not on medication. I am referring specifically to my husband who has such severe OCD that no one can live with him and he insists that if his will to "get better" were only stronger he would not have OCD. He refuses meds (which have helped him in the past) because he doesn't *want* to take meds. ANY meds, not even OTC pain meds for a headache. He believes that medication is in opposition to God's will.

I believe that God wants us to use our intelligence.

Originally Posted by PoppyRoad

I believe that God wants us to use our intelligence.

Am sorry to hear of your struggles Poppy.

i think things are very individual & complex with regards to medication. In my own case i think far more could have been done to help me 30 years ago - but even then maybe i would have still needed medication to be best helped. i tried living medication free & it didn't work out. There are psychosocial approaches that can be very helpful for people, & more should be tried to work with people.

Some people are very much helped with a wise use of medication, but the process of it all is almost alchemical.

imo psychiatric drugs are being far too widely & over prescribed, but that doesn't mean for some people it isn't helpful. For some people it helps, & for some it doesn't - these areas are not black & white - either/or.

In some severe cases of mental illness i think that medication is probably vital.

i do currently accept needing the medication i take to maintain a degree of stability & to stop more severe psychosis. i have become incredibly unwell in the past if i don't take it.

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by PoppyRoad

I am referring to people who function better on medication than not on medication. I am referring specifically to my husband who has such severe OCD that no one can live with him and he insists that if his will to "get better" were only stronger he would not have OCD. He refuses meds (which have helped him in the past) because he doesn't *want* to take meds. ANY meds, not even OTC pain meds for a headache. He believes that medication is in opposition to God's will.

I believe that God wants us to use our intelligence.

Oh good god....yes I'd say that is an example of someone who could benefit from meds not taking them. I just don't see how he would figure its against gods will....why would god give people the ability to make/extract drugs/medications if we're not supposed to use them for ailments of the mind and body? Meh I am not a Christian, but if I was...I would think that would be a healthier view.

[*Laurie*]

Hellion, he allows his severe anxiety and out-of-control OCD (which he somewhat proudly "badges"...as though he believes, in some way, that his OCD secretly makes him just a little better than other people) to run his life. Talk about mentally ill......

[Rose76]

Originally Posted by Apotheosis

imo psychiatric drugs are being far too widely & over prescribed, but that doesn't mean for some people it isn't helpful.

That opinion is widely held by mental health professionals. Here's an excerpt from an article that reports that one in five American adults is taking a psychiatric drug, which seems excessive to me.

"I would say at least half the folks who are being treated with antidepressants aren't benefiting from the active pharmacological effects of the drugs themselves but from a placebo effect," says Steven Hollon, PhD, a psychology professor at Vanderbilt University who has conducted extensive research on the effectiveness of antidepressants. "If people knew more, I think they would be a little less likely to go down the medication path than the psychosocial treatment path."
The use of psychotropic drugs by adult Americans increased 22 percent from 2001 to 2010, with one in five adults now taking at least one psychotropic medication, according to industry data. In 2010, Americans spent more than $16 billion on antipsychotics, $11 billion on antidepressants and $7 billion for drugs to treat attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). The rapid growth of all three classes of drugs has alarmed some mental health professionals, who are concerned about the use of powerful antipsychotic drugs by elderly nursing home residents and the prescription of stimulants to children who may have been misdiagnosed with ADHD. from:Inappropriate prescribing

[*Laurie*]

Yeah, 'cause everyone knows it's better to lose your health, your job, your friends, the trust of family members, and destroy your house than it is to take medication.

Originally Posted by PoppyRoad

Yeah, 'cause everyone knows it's better to lose your health, your job, your friends, the trust of family members, and destroy your house than it is to take medication.

It can be like that for some people & some people i think do need medication & it's vital for them.

i also feel minimum/wise doses are preferable, & i don't see an either/or with ideally providing people with far more in the way of appropriate psychological & social help & support.

There are also those of course (for debatable reasons) that can do very well long term off medication.

1 in 5 Americans on psychotropic drugs i do think is getting a bit silly.

[Nammu]

Originally Posted by PoppyRoad

Yeah, 'cause everyone knows it's better to lose your health, your job, your friends, the trust of family members, and destroy your house than it is to take medication.

Some of those who refuse meds have in the past had very bad interactions with Pdocs and traumatic psychiatric experiences, and may have been over medicated with no one listening to them. As a result they won't try meds again. Not everyone who had bad experiences will do that but plenty do. In some cases it's the psychiatric field itself that turns people off as well as the stigma of being on meds. Yeah some people would rather lose everything than take medications that are perceived as meaning they are weak.

[avlady]

i myself have been on meds and off meds for years, every time i tried to go off i would end up in pyshc ward-i'm diagnosid schitzophrenic, bipolar, and depressed, i know these are just labels but they help me be on meds i need. the symptoms go away on meds, that is why i know i do need them.

[*Laurie*]

I don't know anyone who takes responsibility for his/her mental health and well-being who has not had some bad experiences with p-docs, therapists, and so on. That's life. When all is said and done, the choice remains: do we want to be "right" or do we want to have a functional life?

[Hellion]

I don't care much for always being right...though I admit sometimes when I end up arguing with people I realize I am getting caught in 'being right' when I should just let it go, but I actually recognize it and then try and change it when I realize it. Sometimes my brothers helped me with that like we might get into a little argument and he sort of points out I am getting all worked up over nothing and may as well just let it go so the both of us have a better time.

But regardless of that, I still cannot say I have a very functional life...I mean I function to the best of my ability but that's not good enough to hold a job, and much the time its not even enough to keep up with daily living like just basic hygene, chores and any social obligations like family gatherings or spending time with family/friends who I get along with...like someone might text me to hang out and I am so exhausted I just want to sleep when I haven't even done a lot to exert myself, or someone wants my help and then I feel bad because I just have nothing left to give then I still try.

Mental illness – it don't exist, babe. Call the press. Call your MP. Call the prime minister. Mental illness ain't. It is all B.S. created by filthy perverts looking to get rich quick. What do you say, bro? Good news ain't it? Holy mackerel. We done it! It is those Damn drugs that are killing those suckers with fake symptoms.
Have a drink. Destroy some more neurons. Hallelujah! Glory!

[venusss]

Originally Posted by PoppyRoad

Yeah, 'cause everyone knows it's better to lose your health, your job, your friends, the trust of family members, and destroy your house than it is to take medication.

But what if the meds destroy your health, dull your intellectual abilities hence put your job on risk, make you too numb to maintain healthy relationships?

It's not so simple, really.

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by venusss

But what if the meds destroy your health, dull your intellectual abilities hence put your job on risk, make you too numb to maintain healthy relationships?

It's not so simple, really.

Then I'd say the person should not be taking those medications, but it could be there may be other ones that would work...or maybe different treatments without medication would work better. It does depend on individuals hence why I think any treatment should always be an individualized approach rather than some one size fits all approach.

I have had medications that make me function even worse, and I am not taking those ones anymore.