[MotownJohnny]

A thread on the women's forum, not specifically about MI, asks about the importance of women "looking pretty". Yes, I read it (for shame, right, since I'm a guy!). It raised some questions in my mind.

On the "standard" intake into a psych program, it's customary to ask questions about personal hygiene, such as "how often do you shower" etc. I know that people with certain challenges, such as depression, often have difficulty with appearance and grooming.

IMHO, one of the problems with acceptance of MI in this country is the public image, the stereotype, actually, of the dirty, disheveled, even homeless "crazy person" who cannot attend to personal hygiene at all, due to both medically induced inability (psychosis or whatever), plus lack of opportunity. Or, the image of the person, not homeless but in some level of treatment, in grubby sweats, disheveled hair, etc.

It is a public relations problem. It affects everyone with MH issues, but it is NOT the reality for most of us.

It is one of several issues that REALLY bothered me upon being sent to the hospital program. I found the questioning offensive, especially before getting there and meeting other patients who dealt with those issues, which gave me some more insight into the "why" it is asked.

After I was done there, one of my reforms was to upgrade my wardrobe and be "spot on" on grooming. I wasn't a slouch before, working a white collar job. But, business casual went away, full business suit and tie replaced that. I invested a bit in a fresh wardrobe and made sure I got my haircut every other week, rather than every 4 or 5. Made sure my beard was very neatly trimmed, always wore cologne, always color coordinated.

I don't think it's superficial or shallow to do this - I think it's important to project a good imagine, so the public perceives the millions of us as a regular part of society.

[Silent Void]

I wore a uniform for 30 years. I'm now a permanent slob and no one is going to change that.

[Nightside of Eden]

I have nothing to prove to people and will wear what I want. Anyone looking at me can see I'm not dirty or disheveled.

[vonmoxie]

I think it's possible that an existing relative obsession with appearance is a disorder that is actually afflicting us en masse, at a national level. This idea was first brought to my attention by a girlfriend of mine from the other side of the pond (jolly old England), who after living here a few months commented about how overtly well scrubbed everyone here is, and that the orientation around cleanliness and related health seemed to her to be far less judgmental in her native country, and just more normal.

A subjective assessment surely, but it does seem to me that with heightened orientation towards consumerism can come a more obsessional nature where cleanliness is concerned. What kind of laundry detergent are we using and how white does it get everything, and our general and somewhat odd preference towards many chemically based products over natural. Even our cola that strips the paint off cars.

I bring it up because I personally tend to think that the breakdown of grooming that often occurs along with the onset of psychological issues is in part just par for the course, a natural reaction in that state to having had to uphold standards that are a bit obsessional for everyone in the first place. We're made to care too much and obsess about so many elements of our appearance, and so when we hit an impasse that causes us to stop caring in general, that can be among the first things to go. Not sure that at all answers your question of should the bar be raised; and I'm certainly not suggesting that it should be lowered, but rather that addressing the impact of consumerism in each of our lives (and I'm among the least consumerist people you could ever meet, but still see how unavoidable the effects of these fabrics which hold modern society together are) might bear some fruit in terms of positively resolving our orientations with personal appearance.

[Silent Void]

I shower when I have to see the doc or go shopping. Otherwise I usually smell like a horse.

I cannot get motivated to get wet. I'm like a cat. I hate water.

So sue me.

[Ripose]

I agree with the OP totally. I am one of those people whose hygiene has gone right out the window in the last 5 or so years. I shower every week or two. I only change clothes when I shower, and I never brush my teeth or comb my hair.

I look bad and smell bad 90% of the time. I have tried several methods to improve upon this but I never obtain any lasting results, so if you have any advice on how I can change please let me know.

Maybe if I left the house occasionally I would change.

[Silent Void]

Originally Posted by Ripose

I agree with the OP totally. I am one of those people whose hygiene has gone right out the window in the last 5 or so years. I shower every week or two. I only change clothes when I shower, and I never brush my teeth or comb my hair.

I look bad and smell bad 90% of the time. I have tried several methods to improve upon this but I never obtain any lasting results, so if you have any advice on how I can change please let me know.

Maybe if I left the house occasionally I would change.

Guilty +1

I wasn't going to wholly confess, but since you did I'll go down with you.

I do half-*** brush my teeth though.

[splitimage]

I know my pdoc, bases his assessment of how I'm doing on how I look - makeup / no makeup, have I painted my nails, what jewellery I'm wearing.

I do know that when I'm feeling better I do put more effort into looking good and accessorizing.

splitimage

[Silent Void]

I only shower so as not to offend the public when I go out. I don't necessarily feel good. I'm just trying to be polite.

[Lemon Curd]

After 2 weeks, I took a bath today. I don't understand it & I never will. Afterwards, I always feel so much better. I wish I knew what my personal problem is. I used to take such pride in myself. I'm guessing it's part self loathing. I'm ashamed about not brushing my teeth. My teeth are so pretty. They cost a fortune. I do change my underthings daily & my socks. I comb my hair once a day, maybe two. I try hard to use baby wipes, in between my bath time. I'm clueless, confused & ashamed. That's just me.
*big warm friendship hugs all around*

[lilypup]

I shower when I go out...otherwise go up to a week without. I can look good when I have to...for example, I go out and make presentations for NAMI to reduce MI stigma. I don't let people see me whenI am a mess, but it limits mysocial life. Not that I care much anyway. Hugs to all struggling with this.

[A Red Panda]

It isn't up to me or anyone else with a mental illness to "raise the bar" on appearance and grooming. People who are capable of it do, and those who don't often have a lot of negative thoughts going on.

Personally? I'll slack off when I'm depressed (or hypomanic but that's due to forgetting or being "too busy" to bother!) but I'm always presentable enough and do the basic things.

[lizardlady]

I've learned that not tending to my personal hygiene is a red flag that I'm slipping into depression. When I find it happening I make myself clean up. It actually helps my mood. I don't do it to "raise the bar". I do it to feel better.

[~Christina]

I have BP and regardless of what mood I am in I drag myself to the shower every single day, no matter what.

But do I think that everyone should ? or a bar needs raised ?. Nope its a personal thing.

[IowaFarmGal]

I shower and wash my hair a couple times a week, but at least wash up and put on deodorant if I'm going somewhere. Brush my teeth on days I work. Brush my hair before I go to work and tie it back. If I never had to go to work I don't think I would care about hygiene and I don't care about image fashion or any of that. I think someone judging a whole group of people by a few is a bigot. Their problem, not mine.

[Hellion]

I am female and I do my best to keep up on showering, at least do it 3 times a week or more if needed, but when my depression, ptsd and anxiety symptoms are really getting to me it can make it hard to remember/care or have motivation/energy to do it even when I want to. As for attire I am not working and am on SSI, but if I was working I'd probably have to go get some clothes appropriate for the job....usually I wear tightish jeans(some with patterns) never without my wallet chain, band t-shirts mostly of metal bands, various jackets/sweaters if its cold and I have a patch vest...so yeah I usually look like a metalhead. I don't really wear make up ever, sometimes eye liner but that's it and I just have long hair and don't usually do anything with it except brush it in the morning if I remember. Usually I remember brushing my teeth at least once a day since I smoke cigarettes and if I don't brush my teeth before the first one of the day it tastes kinda gross so admittedly sometimes that is how I remember.

I don't really feel I should change my image just too look like a more normal member of society....though if I am able to start working someday and get off SSI then I'd be fine with having to wear something more professional looking if the job calls for it on the job...but aside from that I'm still going to be rocking the metal t shirts and patch vest(I don't always wear that, but it is one of my main clothing articles just not in the winter).

[SnakeCharmer]

I'm not trying to raise the bar or be an ambassador for MI. But I do know I feel better mentally and physically and feel better about myself if I take care of my grooming, wardrobe and physical appearance. So I'm probably more in agreement with MotownJohnny than others might be.

When my mother was my age, she'd been an invalid for at least 5 years due to mental and physical health problems. One day she announced she was old -- she wasn't -- and she wasn't getting dressed. She didn't get dressed for weeks at a time. She didn't leave the house. If she wanted to leave or had to leave for a doctor's appointment, then bathing, combing her hair, finding matching clothes, getting dressed, putting on shoes became a huge ordeal. This pattern went on for years. She went to in-patient treatment three times and she'd come home and not get dressed again.

It made a big impression on me. As a result, I get up no matter how bad I feel, even when I had broken bones, and I bathe, take care of my complexion, do my hair and get dressed. I wear casual clothes around the house and to the gym. I like to get dirty doing yard work or housework or exercising hard. Those clothes get worn once and then washed.

But if I'm going somewhere, even the grocery store, I step it up a notch. If I'm engaging in business, I wear business attire, although I don't own a dress or high heels and I wear very little jewelry. But I have some high quality pants suits and separates, silk shirts and leather flats. It's all comfortable.

I do it for me. It makes me feel better. And even though it's unfair because people shouldn't be judged on shallow things yadayada I know I get taken more seriously and treated better because of the way I present myself. I hope I don't ever get to the point where I announce I'm too old or too depressed or too sick to get dressed. I don't want to repeat my mother's downward spiral.

[ForeverLonelyGirl]

This may not answer the op's question but it certainly makes me think about how my appearance has become such an issue for me. An issue that I think is dragging me down with the depression. I have always been very particular about my appearance. Even back when I was in a psych hospital for depression post suicide attempt, I kept up the hair and makeup and dressed the best that I could. Once a doctor there told me that I could not possibly be depressed by the way that I looked. Really, was that a scientific observation? I thought he was pretty ignorant from that statement.

I digress. Things have changed since then, I had to go on disability income when I became unable to work at all as a nurse. With this income I can truly not afford to have decent hair cuts regularly and especially cannot afford clothes. I barely make it through each month, sometimes am spent out by the 10th of the month and have to figure out how to survive 20 more days. So, even working at finding sales, doing couponing and all, I cannot afford clothes.

Sorry, not meaning to sound so pitiful, but my clothes look awful now and so does my hair. I do think that it is me being super self conscious more than ever about how I look that is causing me distress. With about 30 lbs of weight gain I don't think any clothes look good on me, old clothes don't fit me. This has all just happened within the last 3 years, I have not been able to replace most clothes items like the basics. I used to buy good clothes, lingerie, hair products etc. I have been to goodwill a few times for clothes...awful. They all smell like body odor when you first get them!

So, when I look in the mirror with all the above and a few more years aging, I can hardly stand to look at myself. I think all the 'trauma' of my severe mental illness that was exacerbated 10 years ago and now post klonopin withdrawal for 19 months of literal hell, has definitely taken a toll on my looks. I wish that I could be kinder and gentler to myself. Goodness knows, I am way harder on myself that any of you might be. I imagine that I will hear from here that I am too superficial and I need to give it a rest, whatever I catch from writing this.

All that said, I do think that when I at least try to shower and dress, put my face on and do my best, I do feel better. Physically and mentally. Ironically, the last few days have been bad and I did not shower for 4 days! Not like me, but I live alone and never see anyone unless I go visit them most of the time, so the motivation factors are low!

I really would love it hear any suggestions on how I can improve my attitude towards myself and appearance. My dear sweet mother was my role model, she was always dressed nice and took great pride in her appearance.

My personal hygiene is stellar (perhaps a little over enthusiastic.) I shower and brush my teeth at least twice a day. I also use mouth wash and floss.

My personal appearance is something else though. I just don't bother. As long as my fat bits are covered up I am relatively uninterested in the rest. There is nothing that is going to make me pretty so I see no point in trying.

I also prefer to avoid mirrors so anything that will involve too much time in front of one is out.

Personally no matter how bad I may get I will never not shower. It just makes me uncomfortable and would only make me feel worse. I understand the lack of motivation to not do so though.

At the very least a hot shower/bath can be calming. (Or a safe place to cry without anyone noticing.)

[venusss]

WARNING: RANT ABOUT WATERSOURCES AND BAD SHOWERS BELLOW. If that offends your sensitivities, you may want to skip this post.


For me.... nice place to shower wasn't always granted. Grew up in village where we sometimes had too little water so we had to kinda ration it. At my mom's place I have to heat up the water and in the winter bring portable heater (that uses way too much electricity) and then wait till the room is warm enough so i don't risk pneumonia..... and then pass through the hallway which is kinda cold all the year and snuggle next to heat source afterwards. That is a chore, kinda.
On dorms we had shared showers.... and gross ones at that.

So to have shower which is nice, and where I have all the warm water I want to (and am will to pay for lol) instantly......... I don't see why would I not enjoy showering.

As for appearance... I keep it rather over the top, so I have to tone it down when I need to impress. I like to look cool and pretty when manic and when depressed I am too self-conscious to leave the house without tons of make up and appropriate outfit. I found out that people treat me better when I am all made up.

[IceCreamKid]

Originally Posted by ForeverLonelyGirl

This may not answer the op's question but it certainly makes me think about how my appearance has become such an issue for me. An issue that I think is dragging me down with the depression. I have always been very particular about my appearance. Even back when I was in a psych hospital for depression post suicide attempt, I kept up the hair and makeup and dressed the best that I could. Once a doctor there told me that I could not possibly be depressed by the way that I looked. Really, was that a scientific observation? I thought he was pretty ignorant from that statement. …
I really would love it hear any suggestions on how I can improve my attitude towards myself and appearance. My dear sweet mother was my role model, she was always dressed nice and took great pride in her appearance.

I have quoted only part of what you wrote, but I was touched by all of it. I had a period of unexpected poverty years ago and I understand how hard it is to be able to afford the basics that seem to be so very expensive when one has no money. Here are a few things I discovered and I hope they help:

Don't give up on Goodwill (or other thrift stores) just yet. There are certain days that are better to shop than others. Some of the stores here have one day a month where everything is half off. You might see if this is true where you live.

Our thrift stores here do get new donations from stores. I have seen dresses, sweaters, tops, shorts and other items, still with tags. You might ask if this is the case where you live, and see if the clerks know when those donations generally come in.

Youtube has videos on how to cut your own hair. I used one and got good results. I only gave myself a trim, though. You might also check out local beauty schools and see if they offer low cost hair cuts.

My local drugstore often has random beauty products on sale marked way down at the end/beginning of the seasons--I guess to make way for new products by those companies. You might get lucky with that if you are willing to drop into a few drugstores in your area.

I learned to say "I'm on a budget." So many of the people who are working (in the doctor's office, at the store(s), at the hair salon, etc.) are too, that I sometimes get good advice, tips on saving $$ on whatever it is, or leads on low-cost something just by having said that. Once my doctor knew that money was tight, she kept an eye on the cost when she wrote my prescriptions.

If you have a friend in a similar position, you could do each other's hair, too. I had a friend who taught me how to "shop poor" (her expression) and she showed me what to buy and what not to buy at the local dollar store to get maximum effect for my few dollars. I will never buy big name laundry detergent again!

[ForeverLonelyGirl]

First of all, I love the idea of ice cream therapy! Sounds like a winner to me. I may try a little of that tonight. Along with a free pay per view movie I sweet talked 'Dish' out of today.

Thanks for the empathetic response. You never know what you are going to get here. I wish goodwill was closer, it is not too convenient for me and I still have some panic when driving in lots of traffic. It is probably 10 miles from my house and on a busy road. I have seen some good deals there though. Part of my problem with it is the awful feeling that I am also used up and no good when I go there. Even though I realize intellectually that often people with a lot of money go there for bargains...no understanding the rich and penny pincher types here. Brings to mind my ex-husband...ugh.

I don't think I am too good to shop there, just wish I could feel good about it and not like I don't deserve any better.

As far as my hair goes, well it is difficult just like it's owner. A good hairdresser struggles to get it right if that tells you anything. So that is something that I have to squeeze in the budget. As far as anything else beauty goes, couponing can be a wonderful way to get stuff, just wish I could wear the makeup but clinique is the only thing that works, have used it for 25+ years. I just buy the basics, nothing extra anymore. They do have the 'gifts' of 7 trial sizes of things which include lipstick, so those are awesome. However, the price is outrageous compared to what I could buy Loreal via couponing. I do have sensitive skin. Of course!

It is a struggle to keep up appearances, but I will struggle on and fight to look the best I can. Speaking of that, I need to address that right now!

Take care ice cream kid!

[ChipperMonkey]

I was kicked out of a mental health program and one of the reasons they gave for letting me go was I looked too good! They said that I looked better than the people who worked there. Ok, so sue me. That doesn't mean I am not suffering on the inside! Maybe if they took two freakin' seconds to think about why I made an effort to look so good they'd realize it was a coping mechanism! I have severe PTSD and the LAST thing I want is for someone to single me out in public for being mental! Ok, so sometimes I do this to myself if I have a very obvious flashback, but otherwise, I just want to be normal! I don't dress extravagantly, but I make sure I am always presentable, my hair is done (or up), I am wearing makeup, etc. It just sucks when people judge you and think "well you don't LOOK mental, so you must be fine! Why aren't you working!?!?" Ugh.

[ForeverLonelyGirl]

Wow chipper, at least I did not get discharged for such a ludicrous reason. My psychiatrist at that state hospital was allegedly the smartest guy around. I think people said that just because he was a major arse...can I use that here? Everyone feared him, I didn't just because he liked to be mean. I had been bullied by men all my life, no skin off my nose!

You are right, it is a coping mechanism for lots of us. You know when you see people with way too much make up on. Or better yet, at that state hospital the seriously deranged ones that suddenly decided to get 'fixed up' one day and have on blue or purple eye shadow all over the place and bright red lipstick with clown like red cheeks!!! That is too much, sorry have to LOL!

[ombrétwilight]

I'm into fashion and I tend to feel better if I look good. If I'm at home I couldn't give two hoots (no energy) and wear whatever. Depression makes me a bag of lazy bones and sometimes (shh) I have to beat my *** into brushing my teeth before bed. It's strange but I put extra effort into my appearance before a T appointment. It's as though I want T to see the best physical me when she's already taken a hard look at the mental mess I am.