[venusss]

I see the recovery model bashed a lot based on "some people NEVER recover, hence it's offensive to ever mention it" to simplify the argument. And that recovery makes some people feel they are "not trying enough"....

... but what it alternative? Doom and gloom based on medical model. Giving up pre-emptively?

Recently this occured to me. I been doing activist activism with people from Ukraine. Some from the Eastern Ukraine. And when talking about the future, I always things like: "Your people are strong, they survived worse things in the history and I am sure the world has to step in at one point". After all, we had banner with "Dum spiro spero" among our slogans.
What I am saying is political equivalent of recovery model, imho.

Of course I could say: "Onnoozie, your country is screwed up, let me help you apply for citizeship here, bury your passport, ***hugssss***, some countries just get screw over and never recover! BUT IT IS NOT THEIR FAULT!"
That would be just mean and *****y, I think. But why are we allowed to tell person they have kinda no hope and smother them with sympathy weaved of doom and gloom?

I think individuals and nations need hope. Even if some find hope offensive. It is not. Yes, there are those who didn't make it. But couldn't it be that they didn't make it, because they didn't have hope to carry them on?

[Altered Moment]

Hope springs eternal.

I don't think the spark of hope dies easily in humans.

Isn't it possible to hold on to hope while at the same time facing the stark realities of ones situation? It seems essential to see things as they really are in order to react to it. I don't think that means giving up hope.

[venusss]

Eh, I always considered myself realist. And people actually say I see myself worse off than I really am in all aspects. And I don't think I am a doomed broken brain. But sometimes in some circles I come off as annoying sun-shinist

[MotownJohnny]

My experience in the day hospital program was that they set the bar extremely low. Recovery was never mentioned as an option or possibility, "management" was about the best they could do. "Management", from what I could see, meant your life consisted of 1) giving up on work and living on whatever welfare disability you could get; 2) giving up on every being able to feel "normal", functional, whatever, but having to wear your "label" as some kind of badge or nameplate, so the world would ALWAYS know you were "crazy"; 3) doing whatever you were told to do, take whatever pills, etc, like a child, because you did NOT know what was in your own best interest, you crazy person you; and, speaking of those drugs, 4) being so snockered up on drugs you didn't know if it was day or night, and then being made to feel "proud' that you were "compliant" enough to allow yourself to be made into a junkie.

It all just adds to the stigma on a societal level, and to the individual pain on a personal level.

F that.

[SnakeCharmer]

I support both the recovery model and the medical model. One size does not fit all when it comes to psychological distress and life problems.

When it comes to the recovery model, I have been challenged, insulted, shouted at and called an ignorant **** for not recognizing that everything is brain chemistry and it's just a matter of finding the right drugs, more drugs, better drugs.

That may be true for some people. But I don't buy it for all people. I believe it's possible for people who have a brain structure or biochemistry problem to benefit from the attitude and lifestyle changes advocated by the recovery model after they become properly medicated and their thinking/feeling has calmed down.

That's how I've approached my own life. But talking about it is considered not politically correct in many quarters. I think that just adds to human suffering.

I would compare it to life-threatening disorders such as diabetes or heart disease in a way. Nobody denies they are medical problems that require medication for most people. But attitude and lifestyle change is also recognized as vastly improving both quality and quantity of life for people. Some people are able to recover from diabetes and heart disease by using the recovery model alone as long as that model includes lifestyle modification. But adding hope, attitude and belief change, as well as behavior change, are regarded as just as important or even more important.

It can be hard for people. Very hard. Most people need some help along the way. I mean, if it was easy, we'd just do it. But it's not. It can feel like having to climb a high mountain. But people with life-threatening diseases, who've been knocked down hard with depression and anxiety because of rational fear of disability and death, are regularly told to start climbing the mountain if they want to get well. And many of them do. I would like to see MI people treated with the same degree of hope and encouragement.

I don't know why it would be regarded as non-PC to advocate this approach but it is in many quarters. I've been hammered for these ideas and comparisons many times. Some people consider it highly blaming. Don't care. I know it works.

[MotownJohnny]

Well, the expectation and attitude among the professionals that "life as you know it is over" has got to go. When I was "serving my sentence" they talked about things like homeless shelters and social services and disability. That is the expectation. That had to go. Why not raise the bar higher, tell people they will go back to careers, to lives, to the community and expect that to be the outcome. Not everyone can reach that, but it's better to reach high than to stoop low.

[MotownJohnny]

I am basically unaware of the attitude among patients the OP talks about, but I am sure I have seen it, I get a sense of that at times now. Yes, there will be those that make it and those who don't. Unfair but that is life, and it's no different than in the oncology or cardiac wards, where some will not make it. So, while it is tragic for the minority who won't make it, why should the majority give up their sense of hope?

[Hellion]

I don't think my mental state will recover, but a lot of times people take that to mean I have 'given up' don't get that since I haven't killed myself so obviously I haven't entirely done that. But aside from me feeling like crap due to mental issues why should that mean I cannot live life, its like people think you have to put life on hold till you 'recover' why not just accept maybe you wont and get on with life as best you can? But that is just my perspective if people are hopeful about recovery that is a good thing....

As a band I like says 'maybe i do feel like ***** sometimes, but I'd rather feel like ***** than be full of *****' or something to that effect, and I agree.

[SnakeCharmer]

Here's some info about the recovery model.

What Are the Core Elements of the Recovery Paradigm?

As described by Marianne Farkas, PhD, from the Center for Psychiatric Rehabilitation at Boston University, at the Refocus on Recovery 2010 conference, although each individual's definition of recovery varies, recovery can be defined generally as the deeply personal and unique development of new meaning and purpose as one grows beyond the catastrophe of mental illness.[3] As such, recovery involves, at its most basic, reclaiming a meaningful life. Thus, it is a process owned by the client, not the service, though mental health practitioners can be helpful during the process. Recovery is a long-term journey with many dimensions; it includes re-engaging in life, finding a niche or major role, developing secondary roles, reawakening hope, developing a sense of purpose, and living despite having a disability.[4]

Dr. Farkas noted that examples of recovery outcomes include[5]:

Gaining or regaining the role of student, worker, community member, or tenant;

Experiencing increased success and satisfaction in these roles;

Reducing/controlling symptoms;

Increasing a sense of empowerment;

Enhancing feelings of well-being;

Increasing the number or quality of interpersonal connections;

Improving measures of physical health; and

Increasing a sense of self-esteem.

***

Clair Le Boutillier, researcher and PhD student also from the Health Service and Population Research department at the Institute of Psychiatry, described key elements of recovery-oriented practices based on a qualitative thematic analysis of 31 international practice guidelines, which revealed 4 key domains of recovery-oriented practices:

The socio-political environment, which includes human rights (basic material needs, stigma and discrimination, advocacy), social inclusion (community participation, social networks), and daily occupations (meaningful activity, valued life roles);

Workplace environment/organizational commitment to recovery, encompassing workplace support structures, quality improvement, care pathways, and workforce planning;

Practice-environment interaction, including working in partnership and inspiring hope; and

Practice approach/an approach that supports a personally defined recovery, which includes informed choice, peer support, a strengths focus, and a holistic approach.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/730233

Here's a link to a Wikipedia article. Recovery approach - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[MotownJohnny]

Well, actually, that is exactly what I am trying to do. I have to believe that my life has more meaning and value than "mental defective" implies (such an ugly term, makes me bristle to think of it).

Yes, people should be told they can recover, until there is absolute evidence to the contrary.

[venusss]

Originally Posted by MotownJohnny

My experience in the day hospital program was that they set the bar extremely low. Recovery was never mentioned as an option or possibility, "management" was about the best they could do. "Management", from what I could see, meant your life consisted of 1) giving up on work and living on whatever welfare disability you could get; 2) giving up on every being able to feel "normal", functional, whatever, but having to wear your "label" as some kind of badge or nameplate, so the world would ALWAYS know you were "crazy"; 3) doing whatever you were told to do, take whatever pills, etc, like a child, because you did NOT know what was in your own best interest, you crazy person you; and, speaking of those drugs, 4) being so snockered up on drugs you didn't know if it was day or night, and then being made to feel "proud' that you were "compliant" enough to allow yourself to be made into a junkie.

It all just adds to the stigma on a societal level, and to the individual pain on a personal level.

F that.

Don't even get me started on the compliant bull. Of course, it works in making seem both sides are making effort. Doctors look they are truly trying to help: "Look at all the pills we are giving to you!". Of course, how long does it take it write a script? How long would it take to deeply dig in the person's real problems? Compliance is also convinient for some patients: "Look at all the pills I am taking! I am doing all I can". Sometimes it becomes manner of personal pride, who takes more pills with more awful side effects..........
I am very much against taking pills for the sake of taking pills, but it seems the case with many people who problems defined in manner of "biology". Some believe it's better to be on meds that make you fat, shakey, stupid and suicidal zombie, because of kindling theories and untreated bipolar/schiz being dangerous.

And yeah, number 3) bothers me to no end. I despise phrases such as "lack of insight" and "trust your doctor". Trust should be earned. We might be crazy, but some "doctors" deserve zero trust.

[venusss]

Originally Posted by Hellion

I don't think my mental state will recover, but a lot of times people take that to mean I have 'given up' don't get that since I haven't killed myself so obviously I haven't entirely done that. But aside from me feeling like crap due to mental issues why should that mean I cannot live life, its like people think you have to put life on hold till you 'recover' why not just accept maybe you wont and get on with life as best you can? But that is just my perspective if people are hopeful about recovery that is a good thing....

As a band I like says 'maybe i do feel like ***** sometimes, but I'd rather feel like ***** than be full of *****' or something to that effect, and I agree.

That is not what is recovery model about, putting your life on hold. I have been told to take break from life while I am trying this pill and that pill.... but not by proponent of recovery model. On contrary.

I just know it can always be better. That I gotten better... so why wouldn't I continue to improve? I don't wanna be "normal" that is not what this is about.