[hamster-bamster]

In California, I have noticed that people openly talk about those disorders.

The same is not true of bipolar, psychotic illnesses, dissociative disorders, and the like.

it is as if there were MI and MI; the respectable illnesses and the stigmatized, feared illnesses that people are often ignorant about.

My question to people in other places is - have you noticed that?

I have had casual, distant acquaintances talk about depression during lunches, absolutely without a need to do so. So it is really widespread. And I have seen blogs by the local celebs about depression. Nobody blogs about psychosis, so far.

[Angelique67]

We can only hope, lol. There's still so much stigma. And Hollywood types aren't really known for their intellects - or deep understanding of things. They think they do but they don't.

[hamster-bamster]

So true.

[Ripose]

I noticed that I can talk about my depression and social avoidance with others but not many would accept me talking about my brain damage. It's almost if they feared they would be infected.

[Angelique67]

I wouldn't talk about having any of my problems with anyone from my past who's successful or anyone like that. I can mention it around where I live because I don't regard the people around here as any better than I. If that's snobbish so be it.

[MotownJohnny]

I don't really observe people talking about their own problems unless I open up somewhat to them.

I agree, there seems to be a "pecking order" among MH conditions. I guess it is the "non-threatening" ones that are "ok to talk about". Probably as well as the "trendy" ones. Bipolar, I think that's kind of a gray area. Once celebrities admit to having it, it DOES help with the stigma issue, IMHO. But many people are still embarassed or whatever.

I have discussed my depression issues at work. My coworkers in my small office know I go see a therapist weekly. I'm ok with that, and they are OK with that, which really helps.

They know more than most of my family. They wouldn't be OK with that, because of the stigma thing and the selfish thing, it would not be "how can I help" it would be "how could you do this to us?" But maybe that is me just being f'ed up in the head. Who knows?

[MotownJohnny]

OTOH, I observed a LOT of people saying a lot of hurtful and derogatory things post Sandy Hook massacre about "the problem of the mentally ill". It really scared me to death, I was coming fresh off by about 2 months my PHP for what then was diagnosed as bipolar II, and it reminded me of the Nazi talk about "the Jewish problem". Hence one of my fears, that they would register us, which could lead to worse in the future. Nothing is guaranteed, I bet in 1930 few in the Jewish community in Germany had an inkling of what they would suffer in future years. And that all started with "registration" etc. Until it became worse than just having your name on a list, much worse.

Political soap box time, and I try as a rule to avoid discussing it on this forum, but ... the NRA wanted to seriously scapegoat us.

NRA Takes Fire for Stance on Mental Illness - ABC News

This snipet frightens the devil out of me:

WAYNE LAPIERRE: How many more copycats are waiting in the wings for their moment of fame from a national media machine that rewards them with wall-to-wall attention and a sense of identity that they crave, while provoking others to try to make their mark.

A dozen more killers, a hundred more? How can we possibly even guess how many, given our nation’s refusal to create an active national database of the mentally ill? The fact is this: That wouldn’t even begin to address the much larger, more lethal criminal class -- killers, robbers, rapists, gang members who have spread like cancer in every community across our nation.

I added the bold italics to highlight the worst part.

Remarks from the NRA press conference on Sandy Hook school shooting, delivered on Dec. 21, 2012 (Transcript) - The Washington Post

[MotownJohnny]

Hamster-Bamster, how am I possibly supposed to be "ok" with my diagnosis, and feel good about myself, in a world like this, where I am an "enemy" to so many people because of a "medical condition"?

Like I said in your other thread, when they start locking up leukemia patients, we'll talk.

[vonmoxie]

I think there are both good and bad effects of these things becoming a more commonplace part of the current public conversation and lexicon. We certainly need improvements in our society, to become more accepting and mindful of these concerns in ourselves and others; but our general lack of awareness really slows down the process of advancement. For instance, in the same way that many people will say "I'm depressed today" to express simply feeling down "in the moment" and nothing to do with clinical depression, I can picture people coming to say "I've got a little PTSD today" when they're feeling a bit shook up about something (and maybe this is already happening).

It would be great if the public conversation on mental health was a more integrated one, for everyone. So that the existence of various "disorders" (I'd prefer something like "differing perception sets" as a term, but we're probably many decades away from that) were not isolated in their recognition and in our understanding. So that more people could better understand the differences of human perception along the array, and the various validities and reasons for those perception sets. As many people as embody the effects of at least one or another "disorder", it just doesn't make sense to think of them or of their conditions as abnormal, and to consider a normal even to exist; it doesn't make sense, doesn't make comprehensive our love of humanity.

This isn't anti-psychiatry I'm talking, just a wish for a heckuva a lot more support and view towards improving the science, and the intersection at which it exists in society. If more people had wider understanding, who knows what total positive effects could be realized. Less isolating of people, from the workforce, from society, from positive understanding. We need to be kindly embracing and fostering good health along the entire spectrum, if we're to stop demonizing people and further injuring them in the process.

There are things I don't talk about with anyone (like SI), because I know that the time and society I happen to live in will respond in what will ultimately be an unhelpful manner. But because I don't talk about it, it does take on a certain life of its own, and I think this happens with many stigmatized effects. Diminishing returns negatively rule our behaviors.

It really makes me wonder what it is the APA and organizations like it are there for sometimes. Not what they should be. Who speaks for advancing the science at large? Its purpose in society?

Hope this is not too terribly derailing of this thread's original intent; please kindly inform me if it is.

[vonmoxie]

Originally Posted by MotownJohnny

ong MH conditions. I guess it is the "non-threatening" ones that are "ok to talk about". Probably as well as the "trendy" ones. Bipolar, I think that's kind of a gray area. Once celebrities admit to having it, it DOES help with the stigma issue, IMHO. But many people are still embarassed or whatever.

I was reading an interview with Jennifer Saunders the other day (Edina in AbFab), and this comment jumped out at me: "I wish someone really important would admit to procrastination and turn it into a disease." On the one hand-- she's hysterical. On the other, it's actually a really provocative comment, because while celebrity admissions can bring out awareness in the public, it can also be in a very distorted manner, through the lens of the media feeding frenzy, of sensationalism and advertising dollars. Her pointing to the possibility of an effect like procrastination becoming validated as a disorder through that lens is revealing.

[MotownJohnny]

Originally Posted by vonmoxie

I was reading an interview with Jennifer Saunders the other day (Edina in AbFab), and this comment jumped out at me: "I wish someone really important would admit to procrastination and turn it into a disease." On the one hand-- she's hysterical. On the other, it's actually a really provocative comment, because while celebrity admissions can bring out awareness in the public, it can also be in a very distorted manner, through the lens of the media feeding frenzy, of sensationalism and advertising dollars. Her pointing to the possibility of an effect like procrastination becoming validated as a disorder through that lens is revealing.

Alas, my take on the DSM V is that they have the attitude that everything should be a "mental disorder" so they can justify treating it and billing insurance.

[MotownJohnny]

We do need a very different advocacy system. AIDS advocacy helped get HIV patients much more acceptance than they used to have. I personally think it should be modeled on the Gay Rights movement, they have done a superb job of advancing their cause and expanding their rights. They went from persecution to majority acceptance in about 30 years, which is great. And any day now, I think the US 6th Circuit Court of Appeals in Cincinnati is going to hand down a ruling about Michigan's gay marriage ban, and every sign is they will strike it down. If that happens, marriage equality will become law of the land not just in Michigan, but in all of the states in the 6th circuit. And once the genie is out of the bottle to this extent, now 30 states, there is NO WAY the Supreme Court is going to take it away again.

We need advocacy, acceptance, and understanding. There need to be a lot more "normal" people with mental illness, from the common such as ADHD or anxiety disorders to the severe like schizophrenia, who show they are integral parts of society, and "regular people" fighting a disease like any other.

The catch 22 is, no one wants to go first, because of fear of stigma. There are a few, but not many, brave enough. I'm not, I'm a real coward.

[MotownJohnny]

This is gonna sound elitist, and no doubt I'll catch some flack, but I would love to see a forum for "high functioning" people who hold down jobs, have families, and lead "normal" lives despite the struggles.

[Angelique67]

Originally Posted by MotownJohnny

This is gonna sound elitist, and no doubt I'll catch some flack, but I would love to see a forum for "high functioning" people who hold down jobs, have families, and lead "normal" lives despite the struggles.

Good luck finding people suffering with schizophrenia in great numbers for that. Although I had jobs, never a marriage or family.

[MotownJohnny]

Originally Posted by Angelique67

Good luck finding people suffering with schizophrenia in great numbers for that. Although I had jobs, never a marriage or family.

There are some. The professor that Russell Crowe portrayed in "A Beautiful Mind", as well as the law professor in California:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/27/op...upid.html?_r=0

What I wonder about is ... if the bar were set higher, people were encouraged rather than put down, would more people with serious disorders like schizophrenia lead much more "normal" lives? After all, they used to think that children with Down's syndrome were so hopeless they couldn't be educated, or ever contribute, and most of them were abandoned to rot as babies in state institutions, where they had short miserable lives. Now we know a lot better, many Down's kids go to high school, some to college, live independently or in small group settings, work, date, etc.

[ifst5]

I find that the easier it is to explain a disease - the more likely people are going to accept it.

I mean how would you adequately summarize a personality disorder? Or autism?

Statistics also play a role - depression is a widespread illness, it's something more likely to appear on social media, on television, be covered via health insurance etc.

At the end of the day there will always be fear and suspicion over 'invisible' conditions. The issue of blame, causality etc. is harder to explain way.

I have to add though, i think sometimes we need to get ourselves a bit, we're not being bear baited in cages anymore. Yes progress is slow but how much is really being done anyway? Where's the last rally you saw for MH awareness? Case in point; the English mental health charity Mind recently had a campaign whereby everyone involved was asked to send a template of a manifesto of treatment options to the new government to consider. As every local MP in this country was emailed, shorter waiting times for talking therapies and better access to emergency care will now be coming into affect.

In short, if you're not happy, shout about it. It DOES work.

[venusss]

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

In California, I have noticed that people openly talk about those disorders.

The same is not true of bipolar, psychotic illnesses, dissociative disorders, and the like.

it is as if there were MI and MI; the respectable illnesses and the stigmatized, feared illnesses that people are often ignorant about.

My question to people in other places is - have you noticed that?

I have had casual, distant acquaintances talk about depression during lunches, absolutely without a need to do so. So it is really widespread. And I have seen blogs by the local celebs about depression. Nobody blogs about psychosis, so far.

Sadly, I don't think this lessens the stigma in any way.

I know these people who talk about their depressions at lunch and it is that sort of people who use it as convient excuse not to take any responsibility for their lives whatsoever. When you cannot blame things on the government, gay and gypsies, depression or other "illness" always comes handy.

Just like most people don't talk about their physical illness, only a special (imho annoying) sort, same with depression.

I have a feeling that people who are very affect with it will not yak yak it over their lunch, of the same reason normal people don't yak yak about traumatizing things to strangers and acquintance in casual matter.

And of course, I met people who turned depression into pissing contest about who has pricier shrink and is on pricier pills (all that in state with universal healthcare).

[venusss]

Originally Posted by vonmoxie

I was reading an interview with Jennifer Saunders the other day (Edina in AbFab), and this comment jumped out at me: "I wish someone really important would admit to procrastination and turn it into a disease." On the one hand-- she's hysterical. On the other, it's actually a really provocative comment, because while celebrity admissions can bring out awareness in the public, it can also be in a very distorted manner, through the lens of the media feeding frenzy, of sensationalism and advertising dollars. Her pointing to the possibility of an effect like procrastination becoming validated as a disorder through that lens is revealing.

I actually hate how everything is illness these days. Soon hating broccoli will be illness.

Not everybody with bad habbits and who is not perfect is ILL.

Or maybe being human is illness.

[MotownJohnny]

I don't necessarily agree that people don't discuss their physical illnesses very much in casual settings. That may be partially an age thing, as you get older, you are more likely to have problems, and people do find comfort in just venting it or in "misery loves company". Even with senior citizens, it does become a pissing contest over who has more things wrong with them at times, and they seem almost to take pride at times in that.

But I noticed the same thing among people in the day hospital program and support groups who "bought into it" - like a prideful thing to be on X number of different drugs with X number of diagnoses, all so they can seem "compliant" to doctors and brag to other patients. At least that was my take on it.

Yes, I do think the people who "buy into it" often use it as an excuse to avoid responsibility. Easier to say "my bad, but not my fault because I have X" than to say "I f***** up."

[venusss]

But I noticed the same thing among people in the day hospital program and support groups who "bought into it" - like a prideful thing to be on X number of different drugs with X number of diagnoses, all so they can seem "compliant" to doctors and brag to other patients. At least that was my take on it.

I once read a blog that went like "I always have bad reaction meds, but I will try new one anyways, because I am BRAVE!" and then the author got offended when somebody told them they had the same problem, decided to go without drugs, things gotten somewhat better.... She just wanted to be pampered in her vision of brave pill taking warrior.


Which is another thing that bothers me. As "untreated" bipolar, I am afraid to even admit it. Because all these celebs, Catherine Zeta Boring and Disney Whatsherface go around with "there's help" and promoting the mainstream treatment. Good luck if it doesn't work for you. Or if you don't wanna go that way for one reason or another.

[vonmoxie]

Originally Posted by venusss

I actually hate how everything is illness these days. Soon hating broccoli will be illness.

Not everybody with bad habbits and who is not perfect is ILL.

Or maybe being human is illness.

As Bill Hicks once said, "we're a virus with shoes". He was not far off.

Back somewhere in the 80s or early 90s, a favorite singer of mine Diamanda Galas got a tattoo that says "We Are All HIV Positive" -- her own brother had gotten that Dx in the earliest days of HIV, and passed away as so many of the earliest sufferers did -- but I really took her sentiment to heart, as it applies to all things. All diseases. All differences. There's nothing any of us suffer with that are not part of the human condition, much of which we could wake up one day finding ourselves unexpectedly afflicted with.. and yet we are so quick to demonize that which doesn't directly affect us through suffering we experience ourselves or that we might only see in those closest to us.

I guess I either think that none of us are ill, or that all of us are ill. I don't put myself above or below anybody. We're all just variations on a theme, genetically and otherwise.

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by MotownJohnny

There are some. The professor that Russell Crowe portrayed in "A Beautiful Mind", as well as the law professor in California:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/27/op...upid.html?_r=0

What I wonder about is ... if the bar were set higher, people were encouraged rather than put down, would more people with serious disorders like schizophrenia lead much more "normal" lives? After all, they used to think that children with Down's syndrome were so hopeless they couldn't be educated, or ever contribute, and most of them were abandoned to rot as babies in state institutions, where they had short miserable lives. Now we know a lot better, many Down's kids go to high school, some to college, live independently or in small group settings, work, date, etc.

In my opinion the bar is quite high enough, society still looks down on people if their mental condition prevents them from working or any of those aspects of 'normal' life or at least interferes significantly...

[Angelique67]

Originally Posted by MotownJohnny

There are some. The professor that Russell Crowe portrayed in "A Beautiful Mind", as well as the law professor in California:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/27/op...upid.html?_r=0

What I wonder about is ... if the bar were set higher, people were encouraged rather than put down, would more people with serious disorders like schizophrenia lead much more "normal" lives? After all, they used to think that children with Down's syndrome were so hopeless they couldn't be educated, or ever contribute, and most of them were abandoned to rot as babies in state institutions, where they had short miserable lives. Now we know a lot better, many Down's kids go to high school, some to college, live independently or in small group settings, work, date, etc.

Not to sound mean and bitter but that's two people out of at least two million. I agree with the poster above me, life is hard enough. I'm very glad I didn't have kids, it would have been a tragic mistake.

[MotownJohnny]

Taking psychotropic drugs makes me feel weak and ashamed. It says to me that I am somehow inadequate mentally. And mental issues equate to me, because of background, upbringing, and culture to immoral and unequal to other members of society.

[Hellion]

Symptoms of my mental problems make me feel weak and ashamed, hence I take drugs...just not always the drugs the 'system' would like me to take like prozac or zyprexa and a number of others that don't do crap for me. Then the ones that do help seem to be under threat because 'benzos are addictive so no valium for your panic attacks/flasbacks to help calm you' but luckily I still have that prescirbed.