[Secretum]

This is a repost from the BPD forum. I want to reach as many people as possible with this idea, and get feedback from people across the MI community, not just those with BPD.

Regardless of whether or not I am borderline, I have realized something from my therapist thinking I might be and my research.

"Manipulative"

"Lying"

"Self-centered"

"Immature"

"Unable to handle challenges others can (i.e. weak)"

"Poorly behaved"

"Personality disordered"

Okay, so nearly everyone with BPD has terrible self-esteem and hates themselves. To the point where they are suicidal sometimes. And then we stick a label on them that people think means all the above.

Is that going to help them heal, or is that going to make them worse?

Hmmm, let's see. I don't think I know the answer to that one...

It's a public health crisis. A major one. I wonder what the suicide rate among borderline people looks like in the days and weeks following diagnosis. I was just told that I *might* be borderline a few days ago, and it made me feel so worthless and suicidal.

We need to change this. This is wrong and disgusting. Just wrong! Making people that already hate themselves feel even worse is a horrible thing for our culture to condone. It's a horrible thing for us as a community of people with MI (any and all forms of MI) to allow to happen. We need to rally around our borderline brothers and sisters, who had no choice in having the illness they have, and support them.

How many more people need to die before we realize that you can't make sick people better by demonizing them?!

Anyone agree? What can we do about this?

[-jimi-]

IMO I don't think this will change so I actually wish this diagnosis was scrapped. In the new DSM it almost sounds like people with BPD are psychopathic. Also I have the feeling gender plays a role so I also think there are female AsPD mixed in with the BPD crowd because the AsPD diagnosis is shaped around a male.

I think it would make much more sense to add C-PTSD as a diagnosis and I think that would suck 60-70 % of the borderliners right into the new diagnosis.

C-PTSD is much more clear cut and would fit those who have a disorder from having their thought pattern and attachment shaped by negative things in their childhood. It gives perfect sense to some symptoms that BPD just treats as bad behavior.

If you have unstable adults around you growing up it will affect you, you will not grow into healthy attachment, if someone is maybe both nurturing you and abusing you, it's not strange at all if you get mixed up about who is good and bad and even seeing a person as a constant.

If you are in constant stress those parts of your brain which handles controlling emotion and impulsiveness will not grow properly, the same actually goes for attention, planning and judgment.

If you are wronged you might develop not only low self esteem but also a sense of shame.

Since you have not been nurtured correctly it might even be hard to know who you are.

If you have been severely abused you might have a quite strong pattern of dissociation. This might even spill over on how you feel about your own body, you might dislike or disrespect it, disconnect from it and not knowing what it signals etc.

A lot of this is in the BPD diagnosis but it totally lacks explanations. Seeing where this comes from I think totally defuses the idea of the patient being someone bad at all!

And for those of the BPD patients not having any C-PTSD pattern, I think they need their own type of treatment. I think there really has to be a split here because I really don't think BPD is just one thing.

People who have grown up without compassion need a lot in therapy and the idea is to not give that to people with BPD. I'm like what the heck?...

[Fuzzybear]

[The_little_didgee]

Originally Posted by Secretum

"Manipulative"

"Lying"

"Self-centered"

"Immature"

"Unable to handle challenges others can (i.e. weak)"

"Poorly behaved"

"Personality disordered"

Okay, so nearly everyone with BPD has terrible self-esteem and hates themselves. To the point where they are suicidal sometimes. And then we stick a label on them that people think means all the above.

Is that going to help them heal, or is that going to make them worse?

Hmmm, let's see. I don't think I know the answer to that one...

A clinician making those kinds of assumptions about a client isn't going to form much of an alliance with that person. There is nothing healing about those judgements.

I've have done extensive reading on BPD for healing and understanding. I really wanted to know how autism spectrum disorder in females could easily be mistaken for personality disorder. After all the reading I have concluded if a lady with undiagnosed ASD has a history of self-injury, is angry and complains of interpersonal problems she will most likely get the diagnosis. My psychiatrist agreed with me.

BPD describes a set of behaviors that one uses to cope with adverse conditions. These people have never been taught how because they have been invalidated for years. I don't see how this makes them personality disordered. C-PTSD is definitely a more accurate description for most of these people.

Clinicians are a big problem. They are the ones that have to repair the stigma since they caused it. They are known to misuse the label. E.g., diagnose patients they find too challenging or irritating with it. Often the label is used to prevent access to care. There are psychiatrists in my city who will not deal with people with a BPD diagnosis. I've heard so many stories of people in crisis who cannot get help. When I had the diagnosis (in the 1990s) I couldn't get care. No one wanted to deal with me. If they did they made all kinds of assumptions that fit the BPD presentation. The problem with that is it was wrong and I ended up getting psychologically hurt. Assumptions can really mess one up. Imagine being told you were sexually abused but it never ever happened.

Sometimes the diagnosis is given when clinicians cannot isolate the problem. I'm proof of that. Apparently I was a perplexing patient. They would tell me that a lot. Some asked if I was ever assessed for autism and epilepsy. Since they couldn't determine what was going on I got diagnosed with BPD even though it didn't describe my situation and feelings. My ASD was mistaken for BPD and I paid dearly for that. I'm in therapy for their errors.

When a clinician notices BPD in a consultation or discharge summary it stands out. All the other diagnoses don't matter. A lot of them want to run. If they do agree to see you they ignore you and write you off. I've been told some really nasty things. How is this supposed to help? These bastards should know better.

When I had the diagnosis I felt so ashamed. My problems felt insignificant and I blamed myself for everything that went wrong in my life.

Originally Posted by -jimi-

IMO I don't think this will change so I actually wish this diagnosis was scrapped. In the new DSM it almost sounds like people with BPD are psychopathic. Also I have the feeling gender plays a role so I also think there are female AsPD mixed in with the BPD crowd because the AsPD diagnosis is shaped around a male.

Some of the nastiest things I have seen written about people with BPD contained a hefty dose of misogyny.

I can't help but feel that much of the stigma comes from BPD being considered a mostly female diagnosis and is therefore considered 'just a neurotic over emotional female thing' rather than a legitimate mental health problem.

[ForeverLonelyGirl]

Originally Posted by Secretum

This is a repost from the BPD forum. I want to reach as many people as possible with this idea, and get feedback from people across the MI community, not just those with BPD.

Regardless of whether or not I am borderline, I have realized something from my therapist thinking I might be and my research.

"Manipulative"

"Lying"

"Self-centered"

"Immature"

"Unable to handle challenges others can (i.e. weak)"

"Poorly behaved"

"Personality disordered"

Okay, so nearly everyone with BPD has terrible self-esteem and hates themselves. To the point where they are suicidal sometimes. And then we stick a label on them that people think means all the above.

Is that going to help them heal, or is that going to make them worse?

Hmmm, let's see. I don't think I know the answer to that one...

It's a public health crisis. A major one. I wonder what the suicide rate among borderline people looks like in the days and weeks following diagnosis. I was just told that I *might* be borderline a few days ago, and it made me feel so worthless and suicidal.

We need to change this. This is wrong and disgusting. Just wrong! Making people that already hate themselves feel even worse is a horrible thing for our culture to condone. It's a horrible thing for us as a community of people with MI (any and all forms of MI) to allow to happen. We need to rally around our borderline brothers and sisters, who had no choice in having the illness they have, and support them.

How many more people need to die before we realize that you can't make sick people better by demonizing them?!

Anyone agree? What can we do about this?

I am not sure that anything can be done. The whole mental "health" so called care system needs a complete redo, overhaul if you will. It seems designed to make all mentally ill people feel worse about themselves and to resign themselves to being ill and on all those horrible meds for the rest of your life!

I was once diagnosed with bpd, my behavior did follow almost all the guidelines for the diagnosis. It was horrible. Now that I am somewhat "cured" and back to just plain old depression, I can look back and recall what a life altering damning diagnosis it was. Plus everyone told me that no therapist wants a bpd patient and there is not cure or medication that will help. I am proof that you can be greatly improved after a bpd diagnosis. In my opinion, most mental health diagnoses are life changing and negative, almost like a death sentence. Maybe I am too dramatic but things just seem to be that way when you do get an official label.

[-jimi-]

I know exactly how people with BPD are treated, it was my former diagnosis but I didn't fit so they made it PD-NOS although that didn't make things better.

The doc I had was extremely callous, everything I could ever say about how I felt (I had a lot of depression at the time) was ignored because i should not be given attention for negative things. It meant she toyed with my life because I was never allowed to feel bad. If I asked for help she was like "Knock it off". After it came out I had Asperger's instead, ALL that crappy attitude was gone from her! I was suddenly ALLOWED to have feelings. But after that diagnosis she treated me like a child to pat on its head because I was stupid instead.

Can't win. LOL.

[geis]

I refuse to sign anything that says I have a diagnosis of borderline--which, of course, they tend to interpret as proof that I'm borderline. It's a trash-can diagnosis. They've decided borderlines are untreatable, so they offer us inadequate care. When we fail to improve, then that's used as proof that borderlines are untreatable. It's Mobius-loop logic, and they call us crazy? And if you try to point out the error in their reasoning, that's seen as manipulative. Once you have the diagnosis, EVERYTHING you say or do is interpreted as manipulative or attention-seeking, and there's no way for the patient to win.

I'm not sure there is a way to fix it, but I'm pretty cynical and angry about the state of psychiatric treatment in general. I think the system's too broken to be fixed.

[The_little_didgee]

Originally Posted by geis

I refuse to sign anything that says I have a diagnosis of borderline--which, of course, they tend to interpret as proof that I'm borderline. It's a trash-can diagnosis. They've decided borderlines are untreatable, so they offer us inadequate care. When we fail to improve, then that's used as proof that borderlines are untreatable. It's Mobius-loop logic, and they call us crazy? And if you try to point out the error in their reasoning, that's seen as manipulative. Once you have the diagnosis, EVERYTHING you say or do is interpreted as manipulative or attention-seeking, and there's no way for the patient to win.

I used to tell clinicians that I did not have BPD all the time. They usually responded by telling me that I was in denial. Huh? How could I be in denial if the condition didn't even describe my experiences and feelings

Another problem with BPD is if you have a medical complaint it is assumed to be psychosomatic. I also got accused of faking illness. My gastrointestinal complaints were ignored because of this diagnosis. My severe lactose intolerance was misdiagnosed as IBS. It got worse because I started eating a lot of yogurt. One doctor thought I was lying about having bloody diarrhea. It turned out to be shigellosis.

No help was really offered except referrals to substance abuse programs. That was no help since I never ever had that problem.

I felt so horrible about my BPD diagnosis and being ignored that I attempted to take my life and almost succeeded all because I felt like I was dumped in the trash can.

[ForeverLonelyGirl]

Amen to all above. I was also referred to AA constantly due to my reckless behavior. I knew that I was not an alcoholic. Never have or never will be one. Of course in AA they laugh if you say you are not. I did not fit in that slot and the testimonies of alcoholics just proved me right. Obviously it is a trash can diagnosis. It's like when an MD diagnoses you with a 'virus'. It's because they are guessing and don't really know what the hell is wrong with you!

[geis]

Originally Posted by The_little_didgee

Another problem with BPD is if you have a medical complaint it is assumed to be psychosomatic. I also got accused of faking illness. My gastrointestinal complaints were ignored because of this diagnosis. My severe lactose intolerance was misdiagnosed as IBS. It got worse because I started eating a lot of yogurt. One doctor thought I was lying about having bloody diarrhea. It turned out to be shigellosis.

So true! As a teenager, I started having bad vertigo, which my GP blew off as psychosomatic. When I started passing out, he labeled it (at my mother's urging) as attention-seeking behavior. Finally, after about a year of worsening symptoms and a doctor who refused to do anything beyond basic labs, I had a seizure, passed out, and quit breathing at school. They sent me to the ER, and the docs there immediately did a brain scan. Turns out I had a very large congenital neurovascular defect that required brain surgery. If I'd continued to go undiagnosed and untreated, I would've had a massive stroke or aneurysm.

A year and a half ago, while I was at an inpatient trauma program, I started getting severe GI symptoms, which quickly progressed to severe diarrhea, vomiting, excruciating pain, and major bleeding. But when the psych hospital sent me to the medical ER, the intern there decided I'd somehow done this to myself with an overdose. (I don't know how she thought I got anything to overdose on from a locked psych units, and my symptoms weren't a fit for any overdose.) It wasn't until my blood pressure crashed to 50/40 that she finally decided I might have an actual physical illness. I was diagnosed with fulminant-stage (i.e., "you're about to die" stage) ulcerative colitis, which is a life-threatening autoimmune disease.

It's like they think crazy people can never get physical illnesses, and it endangers people's health all the time. Even with a documented UC diagnosis, I still routinely get accused of drug-seeking behavior when I go to the ER, even though I have no history of substance abuse. It's complete BS.

[Fuzzybear]

agreed

Originally Posted by ForeverLonelyGirl

Amen to all above. I was also referred to AA constantly due to my reckless behavior. I knew that I was not an alcoholic. Never have or never will be one. Of course in AA they laugh if you say you are not. I did not fit in that slot and the testimonies of alcoholics just proved me right. Obviously it is a trash can diagnosis. It's like when an MD diagnoses you with a 'virus'. It's because they are guessing and don't really know what the hell is wrong with you!

[plixplox]

I was diagnosed with this when I was 18, I checked my medical record online and it seems like they removed it and replaced it with "social maladjustment"... and it did feel like a weight off my shoulders.

I know the stigma surrounding it can be intense... and I imagined telling other people maybe someone I would grow close too about this diagnosis and imagine them running away as fast as possible.

I think it's really I mean really really important to understand this is a condition an individual is in, this isnt an essential description of a person, your not a "borderline" your a person who has problems, the description of which might fit this. This isnt who you are essentially or are doomed to be forever, its just the place your at right now, and try not to internalize it so much.