[drunksunflower]

Please don't read it you're upset over abuse stuff.

Someone who was a number of years ago convicted of mass murdering his family (13 years I think) has had his murder convictions quashed by the Privy Council in London (NZ's alma mater, so to speak, as a member of the Commonwealth).

Tomorrow he should go free, due to a botched police enquiry, disregarded evidence, and a really BS trial.

The Privy Council found that there was 'reasonable doubt', and hopefully there will NOT be a retrial.

Basically, the young man of the family was accused of the family massacre, when most of the evidence points to the father who had been banished to a caravan from the family home and was about to be outed for an incestuous relationship with his teenage daughter.

My thoughts tomorrow are with what I think is the wrongly accused - but no amount of compensation can make up for so many years behind bars for an innocent party ...

Police trying to put on a good face and 'solve' a crime ... what a joke.

sorry to ramble ... my faith in justice has been well shaken over the years :>

hey. who is this? i'm out of touch with the news...

[drunksunflower]

David Bain.

ah. thought so
i heard a little bit about the campaigns / petitions for his retrial. people wrote books about it and some politicians got onside and stuff.
i don't know enough about it to have an opinion one way or the other.

sounds like a dysfunctional family all round...

[drunksunflower]

Did a strange looking 22 year old who had incredibly bad taste in knitwear murder his entire family, or was it the religious nut father who had incestuous relationships with daughter Laniet?

Finally ... there is another chance to clear his name.

I think Joe Karam has done an extraordinary job of trying to clear David's name.

Just makes me think of Arthur Allan Thomas though - the compensation never ever made up anything like what he lost through the Crewe murders.

I am just happy David gets at the least a retrial.

[drunksunflower]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
alexandra_k said:
ah. thought so
i heard a little bit about the campaigns / petitions for his retrial. people wrote books about it and some politicians got onside and stuff.
i don't know enough about it to have an opinion one way or the other.

sounds like a dysfunctional family all round...

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Yes was a messed up as hell family.

Yes Joe Karam, former All Black / businessman, and Michael Reed QC.

The evidence is too messed up - the computer turned on, how ppl were hit, etc.

I think the fact the Privy Council established reasonable doubt is enough that ... whatever happens from now is much 'fairer' than what has happened so far.

Jut my opinion

> Did a strange looking 22 year old who had incredibly bad taste in knitwear murder his entire family, or was it the religious nut father who had incestuous relationships with daughter Laniet?

i honestly have no idea. i know incest is an appalling criminal offence 'n all but i'm not sure that makes him guilty of murder. i just don't know. what must it have been like growing up in such a family??? maybe the strange looking 22 year old who had incredibly bad taste in knitwear got sick to death of his entire family. but really i have no idea at all.

> Just makes me think of Arthur Allan Thomas though - the compensation never ever made up anything like what he lost through the Crewe murders.

yeah. he's been in jail a while eh. hard to integrate back. i guess if i was him i'd change my name and move overseas to try and start afresh. but easier said than done methinks. what a sucky situation all round :-(

> I am just happy David gets at the least a retrial.

yeah. fair 'nuff.

might be hard picking the jury...

[drunksunflower]

Arthur Allan was acquitted ... manybe a million he got? Seen an interview with him ... what a broken man ...

I don't know either re David but the fact the police bulldozed in the hope of getting an easy conviction is ridiculous.

Seen the police force here lately? Plenty of 80s gang bang trials (Shipton etc) and now more about pRon shown at police parties years ago ... it is ridiculous. Both that it occurred and that it is taking up so much legal effort and time and public attention.

Small country syndrome ...

Yea I dunno how they would pick a Bain jury.

I would love to be on it ...

[drunksunflower]

YAY I so hope there is no retrial ... shove one up the *** of the police who messed up the evidence soooo badly :>

As follows:

David Bain has today been granted bail after the Privy Council's decision last week to quash his convictions for the 1994 murders of five family members.

Bain appeared before Justice John Fogarty in the High Court in Christchurch this afternoon seeking bail after serving more than 12 years of a minimum 16-year jail term for the murders.

Two tiers of the packed public gallery erupted in cheering and clapping upon news that he had been granted bail.

Bain, dressed in a black suit and white unbuttoned shirt, grinned broadly and turned to the gallery and and hugged his chief supporter Joe Karam, before leaving the courtroom.

He has been bailed to live Joe Karam's property in Te Kauwhata with condition that someone else be at the property at all times and that he does not contact witnesses in the case or initiate contact with members of the Bain family.

Bain was jailed after a jury found him guilty of killing his father Robin, his mother, Margaret, and siblings Arawa, 19, Laniet, 18, and Stephen, 14, at the family's Every St home in Dunedin in 1994.

Advertisement
AdvertisementBut Bain and his supporters have always maintained his innocence, saying Robin Bain must have been responsible for the killings before turning the gun on himself.

After a failed bid to clear his name at the Court of Appeal, Bain's case went to the Privy Council in London in March and last week the Law Lords who heard the case ordered his murder convictions be quashed.

New Zealand's Solicitor-General David Collins QC will now decide whether a retrial is warranted or feasible.

The case has created debate across the country about the credibility of the judicial system, and raised hopes for other convicted criminals fighting to clear their names.

Around 70 people crammed into the court's public gallery and room had to be made for 25 journalists at today's hearing.

Among those supporting Bain's bid for freedom were staff at Christchurch Men's Prison who wrote letters backing his bail application.

[meander]

That's cool. I'm studying law at the moment, and the bail application was the talk of law school today!

There's apparently some doubt as to whether the Crown will even seek a re-trial due to their evidence no longer being so good, and their witnesses either passing away from age or moving overseas.

Obviously not having been on the case myself, I'm not sure if he did it or not, but it doesn't seem like he did do it beyond a reasonable doubt, which is the standard of criminal liability in NZ and most countries. So it's good!

And yeah, Joe Karam was good, I think it's funny how they talk so much about him being an ex-All Black, like it gives him extra credibility or something lol

[drunksunflower]

Well it comes down to the 'feasibility' aspect as far as I know, and with the quality of the evidence now *shrug*.

Mmmm the reasonable doubt thing was the crux of the Privy Council decision eh

The other factor I've heard noted is whether NZ even SHOULD challenge what is effectively a quashing of conviction from Privy.

Shrug. I don't know if he's innocent, but I am glad it has come to this.

Who had more motive though really ... the weird guy in strange jumpers or the father about to be sprung for incest ...

In some ways the real tragedy would be if he WAS innocent. What a waste of a life.

[meander]

Nah, to my knowledge the quashing was not because the PC believed he was innocent (altho they prob did) but because the trial was unfair since the jury didn't get all the evidence.

[drunksunflower]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
meander said:
Nah, to my knowledge the quashing was not because the PC believed he was innocent (altho they prob did) but because the trial was unfair since the jury didn't get all the evidence.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

I did not say it was because PC believed he was innocent?

The 'reasonable doubt' element is tied up with the quality and extent of the evidence.

In their view, there was not enough to convict him beyond reasonable doubt. That's not the same as being innocent

I have gathered that there is only a slim chance of a retrial - what have you heard through law school?

[(JD)]

We just had a case here, where a man was sent to jail and has done 7 years of his 12 year sentence... the girl, now 20 just confessed she made it all up The guy hasn't been set free yet.

[drunksunflower]

What can ever make up for stealing someone's life ... there was another case here years ago where someone was jailed for murders they did not commit (Arthur Allan Thomas / the Crew murders for any NZers reading).

He got massive compensation but ... what does that matter really.



Sky does she go down for what she did?