[lonely_wolf1989]

I had an episode of what I would call an nervous breakdown. I couldn't stop crying, my cut myself with a pair of scissors blade and contemplated suicide. My mood was the lowest that I felt in my entire life.

I would like to enquire on my mental capacity in decision making at that time. I was given sleeping pills/supplements by people who are not doctors.

After taking those pills, I felt sleepy within 20 mins. Please advise.

Originally Posted by lonely_wolf1989

I had an episode of what I would call an nervous breakdown. I couldn't stop crying, my cut myself with a pair of scissors blade and contemplated suicide. My mood was the lowest that I felt in my entire life.

I would like to enquire on my mental capacity in decision making at that time. I was given sleeping pills/supplements by people who are not doctors.

After taking those pills, I felt sleepy within 20 mins. Please advise.

How are you feeling now? Have you or have you thought about seeing someone in the mental health field?

I'm not clear on what you're asking, but the first thing that I would say is that you really shouldn't take medications from others. Were you in the midst of your depressed state when you took these pills? Did you take them because you felt that you needed sleep or did you intend to harm yourself?

I'm going to try to understand what you're asking: you had what can safely be called a depressive episode. You're wondering if your decision making skills might have been faulty while in that depressive state? That question is simple to answer – yes, you can certainly assume that if you were contemplating suicide, going so far as to cut yourself, you weren't operating with a great deal of clarity or lucidity.

I have hypomanic episodes and I've done some really stupid stuff when I'm in one of those states. And I have hallucinations and I've decided that I'm going to have to live with. I thought that I spent about $8,500 during a 3-month manic spending spree... but a couple of weeks ago I actually went through all of my charges on all of my cards and I actually spent a little under $20,000. That's not me. I can't explain why I did that. My den was a maze of unopened boxes. Looking back on that particular episode the only explanation of why I kept spending is that I had some kind of "high" during the time between placing an order and receiving it. That's what I think now, but I really don't have an explanation.

But I've had really bad depressive states in which I've not been exactly lucid. I'm not too lucid now. I have some reality checking tools now, though, and I've started to think that it's too hard for me to keep thinking that I'm in control all of the time.

Those are a few examples of the times that my decision making skills have eluded me. If you're trying to discover anything specific that you may have done during that period indicative of faulty thinking, other than the cutting and suicidal thoughts, my only suggestion is that you may want to ask those who were around you at that time if they noticed any unusual behavior during that time.

If I've misunderstood your question, I apologize. I've been in one of my severe depressive states for 2 or 3 days and just dropped in here for no particular reason. It seems as if it's been years since I was last playing with a full deck.

[WhatDayIsItAgain]

The desire to protect oneself from injury is considered to be "mentally capable". Self care like bathing and eating and avoiding cars while crossing streets is considered to be the starting basis of "mentally capable". Asking for help is an advanced self care skill, even if that asking is on a computer forum... it counts.

Some emotional pain is so strong it can seem to be stronger than our desire to endure that pain. Help is reducing the reaction to our distress with coping skills. You can reduce your reaction to the problem easier than fixing the world. I try to fix the world so I get "crazy". Changing my focus back to myself often helps me keep perspective on my life. The problem may not go away on it's own but you can get help to endure the problem by strengthening your support system (or getting a support system in place... like your friends already did for you).

Depression or an period of time considered to be a nervous breakdown can be a symptom of overwhelming stress and strain. The depression is a dysfunctional reaction not the reality but it can mask the real problem because depression hurts.

Many people experience emotional turbulance and some of them do not receive help and it gets worse and becomes a serious mental health issue... some of the most needy people have the hardest time asking for help.

Make a Dr appt to rule out some physical causes (For example: severe hypertension causes pain, nausea, tension, and hopelessness just like a mental problem but it can be medically controlled) and get a referral for a mental evaluation is my advice. I am glad your friends helped you but you need your own pills not their pills.

My pills are ssri (serotonine) but they cause foggy concentration and sleepiness also. Sometimes the side effects are not worth any benefits and YOU must decide how that med is affecting you... not the Dr not the insurance guy not the pharma corp pamphlet/advertising... but you are the only "expert" who knows if it is helpful or harmful.

I wish you success at returning to stable self care and I hope you support my return from despair also. Thank you.

(((hugs)))

[eskielover]

On the topic of mental capability, I had left my H years before but the financial mess he made kept a divorce from being possible at the time. Well, when I finally got through one financial mess with him from 2100 miles away, I found that he had been living/paying all his bills with overdraft charges from the joint checking account we still had because of the financial situation with the IRS I was clearing up.

When I found that out, I called APS (adult protective services) about them providing him with conservator or at least a payee for his disability money. Their reply to me without giving any private details was that ANYONE who is capable of making decisions whether good or bad, it's their problem if the decisions & choices are bad & NO, they wouldn't provide any assistance to him to keep him from destroying himself.

He was always a looser when it came to finances, but when it finally came down to him having nothing but his disability, he had no capability of budgeting & spending responsibly.....but it's HIS PROBLEM.....he was deemed mentally capable of making decisions & if they were bad......that is his problem.

So just because you made some bad decisions when you were in that bad state doesn't make the determination that you are in any way mentally incapable.

That's odd. I don't know what the real goals of an agency with that sort of overarching title might be, but you would think that "protection" for an adult with diminished capacity would include his/her financial protection. In my state there are even a handful of agencies employed by state agencies that do nothing other than helping disabled adults with finances.

And... I can't think of it... the federal term... extraordinary mental status? A defense that can be used even in financial crimes, civil suits, misdemeanors, murder, manslaughter, etc.

If I seemed to be using my mental illness as a kind of shield to stay 100% of my culpability, I didn't intend it. But had I committed a crime during that first manic episode of my life, you can bet that my attorney would use a diminished or extraordinary defense. That's NOT saying that you aren't GUILTY of the crime, but that you weren't mentally capable when the crime was committed. (Remember Harvey Milk and the Twinky defense? I don't know if CA ever got over that...)

So let’s make an example: a CFO of an honest, well-thought of, no one can deny is great, non-profit corporation. She went to work at this corp 12 years after securing her MA and has achieved her position as CFO by diligently working, and caring, enough to be great at her job. You never hear a harsh word of her or from her; she’s not “too good to be true,” but the only negative comments ever spoken of her is that she’s “too happy,” “too optimistic.” But in her 13th year of employment at “Kitten Care,” she begins to send off some not-very-happy vibes. Her frequent absences from work create some panic and her emotional states seem to be all over the map. While everyone knows that she must be approached, not even the CEO knows what to say. And during these long, long weeks into months, this great CFO is, each week, embezzling an amount equivalent to her annual salary. She’s caught in a relatively short time. She reveals to her attorney that she’s been under the care of an MDPSYCH for seventh months prior to a commision of the crime, so her council will be pleading guilty but with diminished capacity and the plea will be an admission of guilt to a less egregious crime carrying a much, much less severe penalty.

The fed courts wording is probably better used in this situation – hang tight, have to look this up. “Extraordinary mental condition.” Yes, I can certainly, at the least, commiserate with those three words… going so far as to say that these words have been descriptive of me in various times of my life and sometimes for years.

I have to admit that I had an almost knee-jerk reaction to your reply. A portion of that may have roots in the 6 ‘lost’ days (I can't emphasize just how wonderful, mentally and physically, that I felt when I awoke late yesterday afternoon – nor how I was gripped by horror minutes later).

--->>>Oh. I didn't mention that.

I fell asleep last Friday morning just after telling my caregiver that I didn't need her and I awoke last night between 6-8 pm feeling fantastic. 15- 20minutes later, thinking that I had only lost two days, all the crap came rushing back in and when I discovered that I had lost 6 days? It wasn't something to cheer, but I think that I felt really good during those days. I haven't watched every captured moment but it seems that my main activity was sleeping, 1 or 2 daily trips to urinate daily and sleeping again. I didn't take my medication nor eat or drink during this time. Since I would normally have felt physical withdrawal from 4 different medications, I’m surprised that I didn't awake. Naturally, my neighbor, who had lifelong addictions to a plethora of prescription medications, accused me of overdosing – and yelling incessantly that Seroquel is a narcotic used for heroin withdrawal. So. I don't know exactly all that I did during that time. It’s very likely that I came here. I just don't know.

--->>>Back to heresy and sacrilege.

Alright, knee-jerk reaction. But my reaction was so reactionary (just can't stop the puns) because of what the cited agency told and from which, it seems, you’ve formed your own thoughts? I’m drawing that inference from your last sentence.

“So just because you made some bad decisions when you were in that bad state doesn't make the determination that you are in any way mentally incapable.”

I had a similar reaction to the same sort of permeating whiff that my step-mother gave off when she was telling me that she didn't believe in mental illness, that depression isn't real, that one need only pull oneself up by the (what the hell are bootstraps?) bootstraps and get on with life.

Yesterday – I haven't thought of this since last Friday – was the 14th anniversary of my stepmom's suicide. A GREAT example for all of those other depression-deniers! And the 21st (? Monday) would have been her 83rd birthday.

I’m not sure where to begin. There’s just too much flirtation, consciously or not, with capable and culpable. And there’s capacity… that can confuse things, too. Okay – capable/incapable. It’s an unfortunate use of the word because it really doesn't have much meaning as used. "Capable" implies that someone or something has decided that one or many persons or a thing or many things have the necessary things to accomplish a thing. And until that thing is accomplished, any capability is a nothing but a guess (or a bias, bribe, and on…).

And "culpable" means nothing but blameworthy. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa…

I think that what most people mean when they use the term “mentally capable” is really competent – mentally competent. I don't know of any definition that really works for mentally capable, but mentally competent has real, legal definitions. Competency, I think, takes capability for granted but would somehow include culpability? I’m not a lawyer! So…

“So just because you made some bad decisions when you were in that bad state doesn't make the determination that you are in any way mentally incompetent.”

If attorneys will submit a plea and courts will accept a plea that takes heed of a defendant’s mental competence, how can we, as individuals, say that we don't and won't? If you’re NeoCon enough, I suppose that you could take the train to Randville and live off the wild with your assault rifle. I don't wish to go too far over the top so I’ll just finish this portion and say that my 1 ½ manic episodes (during the midst of the buying spree, I had 3-month hypersexual extravaganza) were not just “bad states” in which I made “some bad decisions.” The faulty decisions were made because some part of my brain had an idea that flooding my sad little neurons with happy little neurons would atone for my sins and make me feel all fuzzy again. How to achieve that? I, belatedly, took a look at the DSM-5 and saw…

“… Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating).”

As I had never had a manic episode previously, and the DSM never constituted a place among my bedtime reading, this was new(s) to me. And, woefully, too late. I had been taunted with BPII but nothing ever came of it. One thing that I must compliment my therapist with is seeing ‘mania’ before I was cognizant of it – and long before I had my episode(s).

I was fortunate, too, in having my hypersexual episode while in the midst of my spending spree. Otherwise, my mania would have fallen from consideration since I don't abuse substances, drive or eat much.

Oh, I have no history of being unable to create and stay within a budget. Very contrary to that. I can think of one time, Christmas of 1990, that I went over budget with my Christmas spending. My wife and I had been married for less than two months and I bought her a surprise gift at REI.

EDIT: Just one more reason that I adored the gehl. No baubles from Tiffinay's – Gore-Tex from REI.

I left capability and competency hanging, so let me finish and be on my way: I’m having some really great hallucinations and when everything is just right I like to let them roll and write. You seem to be, or wanting to try to, blurring the line between capability and competency and I think that’s a serious flawed way of thinking about mental illness. You’re presenting an exemplar of someone who has BOTH a history of financial abuse as well as a history of mental illness but you don't stipulate if this person’s mental disorder includes any symptoms of impulsive behavior. The largest gray areas that I could see emerging are if the problems with “handling money” were, in any way, symptomatic of a diagnosed mental disorder or if the financial problems pre-dated the mental disorder. If the former, even if it ruined my life, I would have to do the right thing. Maybe it’s simpler to say that after you’ve been through a couple of ruined lives. I’m on my… let me think… 4th now. I couldn't – and probably wouldn't – have said this last March but my periods of impulsive behavior did feel like, afterwards, a separate entity that had crawled into me looking for satisfaction.

Satisfaction. It’s obvious why I felt the need for sensual gratification – last year was 17 years without a kiss or holding a hand – forget about second base. I was once a ‘normal’ man and I edged toward that during the manic period. I know, now, why I blindly surrendered to the reckless spending: I have been in care for all but 6 of the years following 1997 and I have (or had… I honestly don't know), no, I had a kind of twisted logic at work telling me that if I could just fill this place, complete it, fill the kitchen with all of those tools that I used when I was cooking, if I could make this a home then I would be safe. Complete and safe.

To end. I do not believe that my manic episodes were simply “bad states” in which I made some “bad decisions.” I believe that the episodes were symptomatic of a mental disorder that negatively affected my decision making skills (impulsiveness) and, because I was operating with diminished capacity, I am less culpable for the results of my decisions than those who are not affected by any mental disorder.

If you change the last word –

“So just because you made some bad decisions when you were in that bad state doesn't make the determination that you are in any way mentally incompetent.”

Do you still believe what’s written?