[BorderlineAnn]

My neighbor has a 4 year old daughter that i've known for the past year since she moved in. She is textbook bipolar (i've got it, i should know). is it possible for it to show at her age, or is she just the most mood-swinginest child i've ever met?

[lenjan]

Yes, children that young can be bipolar, or anything else. A friend of mine's son was dx'd OCD at 3 years old.

[BorderlineAnn]

that's what i thought. then i'm stuck with whether to say something about it to her mom, she's...not the most worldly and i believe still holds stigmas on such illnesses. but she's always asking me about this that or the other so i dunno.

I'm fairly sure that bi-polar is diagnosed in adults rather than children. That being said, I suppose a child could present with traits, but I think persistence of those traits into adulthood would be required before a diagnosis of bi-polar would be given.

How do you mean 'mood swings'? Do you mean that the kid often has tantrums? Or that the kid gets hyperactive for a time? Those kinds of behaviours are fairly normal for kids and of course there is a continuum where some kids are more reactive than others etc. It might be that she will end up with an adult form of bipolar, or it might be that she grows out of it.

Some kids are more requiring of attention than others. Are there specific things that trigger manics? It might be that the kid doesn't tolerate additives or perservatives or sugar well, for example.

I guess... I'm not sure what you mean by 'mood swings'...

[Psychotic_Phil]

4 is too young to be bipolar or anything else. Mental illness shouldn't be diagnosed in anybody under 8 years old. That's what's wrong in this country. Your child has tantrums and you give him Lithium. I know this. I've been misdiagnosed bipolar and lithium nearly killed my brain. I am against this bipolar over diagnosis. My dad is bipolar, but his started at 21. In children you can't tell. I may not be schizophrenic, although it sure looks like it.

"Text book bipolar" normally refers to bipolar I-- I find it difficult to think that a child is having full blown manic phases. She has barely been alive long enough to meet the frequency and length criteria of the episodes-- if she is only four now, when could this have started?

While I don't disagree that both a diagnosed mental illness and/or traits of other illnesses can be present in someone as young as four, I disagree that a four year old could actually meet the criteria for bipolar disorder.

Phil, I wouldn't quite refrain from diagnosing mental illness in children under 8. There are exceptions. I work in an inpatient hospital that has a children's unit, ages 5 through 12. I have seen children under the age of 8 with suicide attempts, psychoses, and diagnosable depression.

Also, what about the host of disorders that specifically present in childhood? Reactive attachment d/o, separation anxiety d/o, conduct d/o, etc.

I'm wondering more about the nature of this child's mood swings.

[(JD)]

I would suspect allergies first. An allergy to something or many things can cause amazing symptoms. (I know of two children who were "deaf" and after allergy tests and treatment, were fully hearing. I also know a lady who, before she was treated for her allergies, would have heart attacks as a symptom!)

I hope this is what it is, as it can be managed.

As for dxing bipolar disorder so young, I haven't a clue.

(((hugs)))

[BorderlineAnn]

By mood swings i mean love hate. you see her in the am, it's "hi i love you. you're so pretty. i like your dress. i like your hair. give me a hug" 2 hours later, "you stink. i don't like you you smell. don't look at me". i just dunno. never seen it before.

[faded]

A diagnosis of bipolar at such a young age is very rare, but it is possible. Just the other day on 60 minutes a young girl was diagnosed with bipolar at the age of 4 and died at 7 from the meds that were prescribed to her.

i wonder why she says thinks like that...
does she do that to everybody or just a few specific people?
i wonder what she gets out of it (negative attention better than no attention at all?)
i wonder if she does it when she is tired or when she is hungry...
i wonder if she has seen the behaviour modelled by other people in her life...

it might be that she doesn't know how to express grumpiness / frustrated feelings appropriately. kids aren't particularly good at knowing whats going on for them when they are that age... i think it is fairly common for that to be the case... that being said... how do her parents respond to her when she says things like that? do they find it funny? do they give her attention because of it? etc.

[BorderlineAnn]

very good points. parents have no reaction. once in awhile mild, but none worth mentioning. like a monotone "hey". she seems to do it to everyone. maybe she gets some cause dad treats mom like %#@&#! most of the time. thing that really bugs me is when she picks on the neighbor dave, who's, i dunno, 50 and schitzophrenic (sp?). i mean she is MEAN to him. mom doesn't care enough. i'd smack her *** and send her to a corner the way she is to him. only thing i can do when she gets that way is tell her i don't like her when she's being mean, and as long as she is she's not welcome in my house and i send her home. i dunno. don't think i have the energy to care so much anymore. not that i could tell her mom anyway, she wouldn't understand it.

[AnnieL]

There was a news article last week, about a young girl, 3 0r 4 I believe. She died from an overdose of medication for bipolar. I cant remember it all, but the pdoc and the mom too I think, are being charged in her death.

I am bipolar 1 and I was only diagnosed a year ago. I am 54. I have problems dx a little child with this, mostly because of the potency of the meds. Sheesh...they can make me feel terrible...imagine a wee tot. I dont even know how a doc could calculate the dosage, and as a mother, I would have been hard pressed to give those kinds of drugs to my child.