Latest TOY recall...

ak, I did worry when I posted my original post and nearly included a statement that it wasn't about people, just a personal choice about keeping me and my pet safe.

Has nothing to do with people to me, just products.

I assume all people are good and wouldn't make harmful products if they knew they were harmful.

sure.

i'm going to make up some numbers here...

population of the USA: 303,321,825

population of china: 1,169,016,000

(okay so i googled for those)

now... lets suppose that 50 US products per year are recalled because of health and safety problems.

now... lets suppose that 100 chinese products per year are recalled because of health and safety problems.

and lets further suppose (somewhat controversially) that population is indicative of how many products are manufactured in the respective countries.

would you do better to avoid the chinese or the american products?

one could say 'i'd be better off avoiding the chinese products because they have twice as many recalls as american products'

and my point is that to do so commits the 'base rate fallacy'.

how come? because the chinese population is more than double the population of the USA.

so in the above example one would do better to purchase solely chinese products (as much as possible) compared with purchasing solely american products (as much as possible).

see?

maybe... (the thought is) maybe... the above example is actually quite telling with respect to the actual state of things...

an even simpler example.

suppose i tell you that manufacturer A has a 100 recalls per year and manufacterer B has a 25 recalls per year. which manufacturer should i purchace from if i want to abvoid a recalled product? manufacterer B seems to be the better option. I then tell you that manufacturer A produces one thousand products (so 10% recall rate) and manufacturer B produces 25 (so 100% recall rate). Now who looks like the better option? manufacturer A. The point is that one can't decide who one is better off going with until one knows the BASE RATE (in these instances the amount of production so one can compute the PERCENTAGE of recalls).

i knew that there were many more people in china than the US so got worried that the base rate fallacy might apply in this case...

something worth thinking about when considering what course of action is more likely to help ones family and pets and so forth.

by the way... it isn't just a US issue. like I said the toy was sold in australia too. In fact (for somewhat dubious reasons perhaps) it was voted as the australian toy of the year.

I personally boycott Nike, Dole, General Foods and any other corporate product I have reason to believe violates my values and ethics.

It's a challenge to be an ethical and responsible consumer but my view is that given the state of affairs around the world I have no choice. Capitalizm has become the new religion and the new political order pushing aside human values. There is no place for "love thy neighbour' in a capitalist mentality that is supported and protected by political agendas. To me greed is at the heart of the problem. Given my socialist leanings I fight against greed, especially when it affects human life and contributes to human suffering.

Shop wisely, shop locally, support your own economies. Recycle, reuse and refuse to buy what you don't need.

Take care.....

ak

All I know is that I was at the store. I saw a really cute cat toy for my cat... one of those cube things for them to go in, play in, sleep in. I thought my guy would have a blast! He is so playful.

When I was looking at it, I saw the made in China print. All I could think of were the animals who were affected by the poisonous animal food and could only think 'what if'.

If I had bought it, i would have worried that at some point down the road a recall might be issued. Or that if lead paint found it's way to children's toys, then maybe it could have found it's way to pet toys (maybe the testing is less strict?).

I just luv my kitty, that's all.

i definitely don't blame you, echoes. i'm nuts about keeping my little furries as safe as possible.

"Even choosing US-made toys, there's no panacea. Parents will still have to monitor their kids' toys and any toy can be a danger. But at least with these toys, the chance that they've been dipped in poison paint by a faceless manufacturing subcontractor thousands of miles away is nil."

US Made Toys
Zome Construction Toys For Kids
Uncle Goose Classic Toys
Channel Craft Authentic American Toys, Games and Puzzles
Louisville Slugger
Maple Landmark Woodcraft
Kazoo: Toys That Play With Imagination!
Beka Easles, Puppet Theaters
Vermont Teddy Bear
Roy Toy Real Wood Building Sets
Ameritrains (formerly Marx Trains)

I don't blame you either. We all would like some kind of gaurantee that we and our loved ones are not exposed to risk because someone got sloppy or greedy or whatever.

I just think that given the fact that governments turn a blind eye to establishing and enforcing strict protects no one can be sure. Even if you make things yourself you can't know about the materials you use.

It's just the way it is given how our world is controlled by profit at any cost --- even at risk of death to humans or animals or the environment. Call me parinod... I just don't have much faith in any one but me to have my interests covered.

If it makes one feel safe to boycott an entire nations manufacturing output then it will have a plasibo effect for that person. But, as has already been suggested, I think that the reality is more likely that we can have no more confidence in any manufacturing output anywhere else in the world either. So long as powerful corporations are running governments and operating governments as their own free enterprises we are all at risk of unknown and dangerous practises being allowed in the name of profit.

I'm not sure if its true and I don't myself take much comfort from this but my understanding is that Canada is more protectionist than most when it comes to inspecting products coming into Canada. There are many examples of recalls on products that never passed Canadian regulations and as such never hit our shelves. There are lots of exceptions though so it isn't fool proof. Same with drugs. Canada is sometimes as many as 10 years behind other countries approving new drugs. Even though the practise is meant to protect people some people will tack the risk themselves and go to the US or order online to get the new drug rather than wait for Canada's approval.

I understand controls are even tighter in Scandinavian countries. Perhaps there is a connection between countries with socialize medicine. Our governments don't want to be left with the tab for the consequences of dangerous goods being consumed by the people.

> ...But at least with these toys, the chance that they've been dipped in poison paint by a faceless manufacturing subcontractor thousands of miles away is nil.

Thats right. There will of course be the chance that they've been dipped in poison paint by a faceless manufacturing subcontractor right in your very country but really... Whats the base rate fallacy compared to a little racism???

Alexandra.... Woo there!!!.... I don't think its a good idea to look at this issue as racially driven or directed. Just because we are talking about products manufactured in China doesn't infer we are discussing a race of people. We are discussing the business practises inside a specific country.

There is a lot of Anti-China information and propoganda in the media. It's been going on for some time and it leaves its footprint on all of our consciousness. But that's not necessarily racially motivated. I certainly didn't hear any such suggestions behind Sky's position to boycott products from China. I did hear Sky tell us about a personal sacrific she made to express her political views.

For the most part my own negative opinions about China as a nation are influenced by its human rights record, its military strength and its interest in nuclear weaponry. It's not personal. I've my values and beliefs as a Christian and a pacifist and a mother to motivate me. If I boycott products from China it doesn't translate that I am expressing racial discrimination. What I seek to do is make my own small political statement and exercise my commitment to living a principle centred and peace driven life.

I will admit though perhaps I shouldn't.... to taking the same position with American made goods since the start of the war in Iraq and as a consequence of related concerns. I don't travel into the US anymore and most recently I've challenged myself to give up American entertainment.. No more movies, tv shows, books or magazines. Still watch and listen to US news programs to stay aware of what happens there. But the rest is on hold till I feel free to support the nations economy.

As a Canadian I care a lot about what happens in American politics/economics. I may not have a vote but I'm as impacted as any American by how the nation is lead. I should say (to counter my anti-American views) that I have the utmost respect for the American people. It's important to always make that distinction. They are citizens of the most powerful and richest country in the world and as such they carry a huge responsibility. The state of the US and the world is carried by every US citizen because of their nation's power. It is a trememdous responsibility that has been given to them. I pray for the American people everyday that they might have the strength and wisdom to carry the burden that impacts the world more than any other citizenry.

If people oppose some of what goes on and comes out of China or the US or Canada for that matter (our government continues to abuse the human rights of the native people who first occupied the Americas). Taking a stand against any nation does not automatically infer that a person is discriminating against a people.... but rather opposing the country's politics and business practises for ethical or other personal reasons.

Walk in Beauty......

Related to this..... I just watched a very interesting document on TV. A Canadian produced documentary about Wal-Mart and the Anti-Wal-Mart movement around the world. Seems to me if we want to make a difference we might start by joining the Anti-Wal-Mart movement.

Seems Wal-Mart's zeal to bring the lowest prices to shoppers is compromising the quality of products subcontracted around the world. They force subcontractors to cut corners. They are driving wages in the US down and discriminating against women employees. Under the pressure of all the media now focusing on WM, in part because of a growing anti-WM movement, WM has made some cosmetic and PR adjustments. They have redesigned their box stores to include green space. 'Wal-Mart has gone green" and with that are hoping to paint themselves as good citizens. Some will believe them and continue or return to shop at their store. Some will be fooled into thinking WM cleaned up their act but the courts aren't fooled. The 10$ million dollar law suit for mistreatment of women is still in the courts. Wal-Mart is still preventing key boarder security practices to be implemented. Because of WM all containers entering US ports are not automatically scanned. A major security risk in the interest of faster business and bigger profits.

The biggest scare I got from the show was to see just how influential WM is to the US economy. Because WM is so big their stock levels influence US inflation levels and the value of the currency. That's pretty scary to think about that amount of power and influence over such a huge economy.

For those of you in the US consider this.... John Edwards is an active supporter of "Wakeup Wal-Mart", an anti-WM movement in the US. Obama has publicly spoken out against WM and how WM is driving wages down in the US. Hilary Clinton on the other hand was the first woman to sit on the Wal-Mart Board of Directors. Be interesting to know her position on WalMart today.

You want to make a difference to the quality and safety of goods coming in to your country then maybe joining an anti-walmart citizen group near you could be a start. They are growing all over the world and successfully slowing down the spread of walmart sprawl and capitalist dictatorship.

The danger of course given their influence on the US economy is if WalMart fails to meet its profit goals it could trigger a recession in the US and around the world. Talk about power!! How scary is that!! Who's Big Brother now. eeks.... shop local small business.

Sorry if anyone feels I've been hogging up space here spouting my views. I'm in a very racy, chatty space right now and I appreciate having a place to unload some of what's swirling in my head.

I appreciate your tolerance of me and hope I haven't caused any offense or projected any disrespect. I honour all who come here and pray we all walk in beauty.

Take care....

Nah, you are cool. I agree with you about supporting local produce. I just think that characterising ALL or MOST producers of a particular country in a certain way is just as problematic as characterising ALL or MOST other instances of a particular category in a certain way.

And given the base rate fallacy the inference that we are better off avoiding Chinese products if we want to avoid recalled products would seem to be unjustified.

I'm just annoyed when people ignore these considerations in order to rant about 'chinese producers'. I'm sure there is as much diversity (if not more given their population) in china than there is in the US.

I am going to put this out there, its not often the sheep speaks her mind, "a few times"
As it was said before if you want to bo cott stuff made in china ....then boy cott the companys. They are the ones who choose to move our factorys to china.
WHy did they choose to do that? " pollution "
They moved over there for cheaper labor and pollution laws here. MEANING they pollute over there with no thought to humans. Sorry i know we are not suppose to talk like this.
But that is the truth.
I grew up next to love canel. FOr those who do not know what that is do a search. Its in Niagara falls NY.
Fisher price came from that area years ago. You talk about woman boy cotting meat. Look at what one woman started look up "Lois Gibbs "
We as a nation need to take a real good look inside our selfs and see buying made in china is wreaking our world as a whole.
Before you buy see where it was made. where it was put together , read the whole label. Do a search on companys who are really in the US.
Ok, I make American made furniture. Can I compete with china .........No.
Can the gifts i make compete ..........no.............price wise no
We as a nation have done this to ourselfs..........
ANd I am sorry to say what we are allowing our companys to do to china's health wise is very sad. AS we have already done it here.
You may remove the post...........sorry to be so truth ful

when you see manufacturers flock to a country en masse you can bet there are little or no or unenforced labor and environmental laws. It is precisely because corners are cut in safety, and material as well as wages and pollution that products are made cheaper in china than elsewhere. This is not just with US companies. European companies, japanese and others are also doing it. We are all in a race to the bottom of living and environmental standards.

http://www.made-in-china.com/prod/catlist/

Ok, here is a link to finding everything made in China. Boycott away!

I am astonished ...absolutely astonished to realize just how dependant we are on this one country!

TC

I did that years ago...and am proud to say last year I convinced my staunch sister to also boycott Walmart et al.

It used to be a wonderful company and I had many Christian friends that worked there.

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heyjoe said:
when you see manufacturers flock to a country en masse you can bet there are little or no or unenforced labor and environmental laws. It is precisely because corners are cut in safety, and material as well as wages and pollution that products are made cheaper in china than elsewhere. This is not just with US companies. European companies, japanese and others are also doing it. We are all in a race to the bottom of living and environmental standards.

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very well said joe

Sky , how can you boy cott when almost everything is made there or another country. computers, cell phones, paint.cloths.materail, film. key boards.CDs ,DVDs, even our movies are now being filmed there, CHeap sets, cheap labor.cheap cheap
CNN just did a story on how the movie's are now being made there.
Enough said from me..........

You are quite correct. I had to purchase something electronic today...and NO WHERE could I find anything that was NOT made in China! grrrrr Then, once I selected it, I had to buy a small bottle of OIL for $6.00 to keep it running. cheap cheap cheap