Did you see?.... what do you think......

SeptemberMorn-
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It exposes the insurance companies and all the games they play

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> Yes, that's what it is mostly about. How profit is the utmost goal -- at ANY cost-- even life.

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Don't quote me, but I think some of the people on the boat get medical care in Cuba

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> well, I did quote you-- Yes, he did take some people-- among them were three workers from the World Trade Center-- 9/11 clean up. They couldn't believe they were getting treatment--- some cried, with relief.

I think it's worth seeing-- I know these things ARE happening in America. so sad.... so sad...

thanks- Sept-

mandy

AlteredState-

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I don't think money is the issue as much as people think. It's in the concept of how Americans feel about how democracy ought to work (and does). We Canadians think a little different in our concept of what democracy is, or rather, how it should work, and this allows us to continue feeding this dream (and reality) we have(!) about this precious benefit.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> that is something to ponder........ good point-- thank you. Seems other countries do think differently about caring for their ill citizens.

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Getting too political?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> ummmmm.. yea-- I don't know either.... I sure hope this subject is not too political.....

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Anyhow, haven't seen the film yet, so probably shouldn't be responding

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> I value your input- thank you for responding.

mandy

AnnieL-

It does sound like most there appreciate your health care system.

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I am proud however, to know we would never turn someone away from a hospital or a docs care because they had no insurance.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> THIS ^^^^^^^^ is what breaks my heart here. I can be a bit too empathetic-- my feelings for others can get in the way of my own life....*sigh*........ I would like to feel PROUD too that those hurting and needing care will not ever be turned away. instead I'm sad, deflated and hurt.

I just don't understand it here.....

thanks for your reply.

mandy

I live in canada too mandy and let me tell you we may not have to pay for health coverage but believe me we get what we pay for...IE: if you dont have insureance you take a back seat to someone who does and in hospitals when your laying in the hallway waiting for a doc and a nurse comes along and decides you re fine out you go...my sister stopped breathing one night and had to be taken by ambulance...the two people from he ambulance were the most beligerent and careless people I have ever seen...they insinuted that because my sister smokes that she ws in some way less of a priority...and...then when they got her to the hospital they dropped her off the gurney while transferring her to another one...my sister suffered brain damage as a result of this she has no long term memory now and guess what the freaking lawyers told my brother in law...because they didn't have enough of a retainer they wouldn't get anywhere suing the ambulance service or the freaking hospital...what I m trying to say here is that canada isnt all that for health care and yes there is a wait for major surgury and yes you get bumped if someone with more money applies...I am getting all worked up here so I will end this...one last thing...if the health care is so bad in the states why are all the doctors who are trained here in canada heading south...money...thats why...

sorry didnt see the movie...

I feel I have to post here since I just spent a week in the hospital with my mother diagnosed with terminal cancer. This is supposed to be the "top" hospital in the area here, and I had to empty her trash cans myself daily, and her bed wasn't changed for a week! Apparently this was due to being "short staffed" because of the high cost of health care, but I honestly can't see how socialized medicine could be any worse than what she received.
You do know, there would be a big lobby outcry against this in the US!
Personally, I'd like to see it!
Patty
Oh, and I must add that my mom has Medicare as well as another insurance which covers most of her costs.

Sorry about your sister Mystry

Yea, I understand that no system is perfect...... I just don't see other coutries let people DIE-- due to no insurance or under-insured or it's just too expensive to help them.
Some people here have to pay for an ambulance ride even if they have insurance!
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if the health care is so bad in the states why are all the doctors who are trained here in canada heading south...money...thats why...

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> that's IT exactly!!!-- doctors here can charge enormous amounts-- so much so that the working class can't afford to go there is NO CAP and if the amount is too high-- ones insurance will deny payment-- maybe the rich are paying for your doctors to come here?!! I know, I, along with many many others here will never see the doctors that get such good pay-- I'd loose my home to them for non-payment, as I couldn't afford their rates!

I get worked up over all this too!!! argh!! It just doesn't make sense people dying for the sake of saving money for the insurance companies!! argh!

Thanks for replying Patty-- so few Americans will speak on this...... maybe they are too scared.... scared to "rock the boat". Insurance companies are so so powerful!

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I had to empty her trash cans myself daily, and her bed wasn't changed for a week!

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> Yes-- One of my sisters is a nurse and has said it's really bad. So sorry it was that way for you and your mom.

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I honestly can't see how socialized medicine could be any worse than what she received.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> I think things would be even better as EVERYONE would be cared for, and so-- if it meant changing out the trash can-- I'd do it!!

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You do know, there would be a big lobby outcry against this in the US!

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> *sigh*...... yes..... I do know that..... there's no hope......

My mom has medicare(medical care for elderly) too-- but she still pays over $100 a month, out of pocket, for her medication and she is on a fixed income..... she hardly has enough money for her other bills(heating,rent etc...) and food.

Patty-

mandy

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what I m trying to say here is that canada isnt all that for health care and yes there is a wait for major surgury and yes you get bumped if someone with more money applies...

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Gotta disagree with you there, Mystry.

While I agree that not every visit nor every situation/procedure turns out to be what we ought to expect, but that is usually due to local governance and procedures designed to totally miminize liability (ah, insurance...there is much money to be made...), understaffed facilities and, well, just totally incompetent people who really don't care. To them, it's just a crappy job that pays crappy wages.

As for paying privately? The equipment being used is owned by private investors and are not affiliated with public health care. That's why all the hoo-haw about "privatizing" heath care here in Canada. People don't get bumped from the public system for financial reasons, they just get faster service paying for it themselves - privately.

Does this create problems in our universal system? Hell yeah!

I do believe, however, that in certain situations, people are definitely "graded" and will be relegated to a lower position (ie. by things like their relevance to their potential to contribute to society. An example would be to give surgery to a younger man with a young family, and considered to be "making a contribution to society," as compared to the seemingly hopeless heroin addict living on the streets and will likely never be a viable contributor to society, or sadly, the elderly, where it could almost be seen as a "waste," Someone has to think in cold, hard logistics. (I know this sounds crude, but I believe this happens. I have witnessed this process more than a few times). There would have to be a choice made as to who (whom?) would be the first to receive treatment, and odds are it won't be the addict, nor the elderly one.

Oops

Think I just went off on a tangent there myself! Wow, feels good sometimes, eh?

The REAL CRIME here is that the entire WORLD deserves to benefit from the advancement in medicine!!! Now that would truly be a universal "health care program!"

I'm such an idealist...

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The REAL CRIME here is that the entire WORLD deserves to benefit from the advancement in medicine!!! Now that would truly be a universal "health care program!"

I'm such an idealist...

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Me too.....

Further to your point.... we hear more and more about doctors refusing to treat patients if they don't do their part in improving their condition. Like an obese person who smokes and drinks and is in need of a 4th heart transplant. Some doctors refuse to accommodate them if between each transplant they haven't make any lifestyle changes to protect their new heart. Like loosing wieght and quitting smoking and drinking. I've mixed feelings about this kind of thing cuz I know how hard it is to change but I can understand why doctors might take this stand.

All the health care systems, england, canada, france, germany , US have good and bad points. I dont see why we dont look to take the best parts of what each has to offer and look to limit the bad points. We dont have to adopt any current system, we can create a hybrid. To say that you dont want to see a government run system here in the US is kinda like closing the barn doors after the horse got out. Between medicare, medicaid, public employees health insurance, public insurance for kids from poor families, public hospitals, the state picking up the bills that are not paid at private hospitals, all of us paying for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, etc. there is already a very heavy government involvement in health care. Insurance companies follow the lead of medicare as to what is covered and what isnt. So instead of this mish mash where we are already spending and in some cases wasting our public money, i think that a comprehensive system that makes sense for the US is the answer.

That sounds wonderful.....now if we could only get things started

Couldn't agree more. Canada's system is far from the model and the challenged facing us all is to figure out what can work. No question it has to be comprehensive. The struggle we face in Canada with making the necessary changes is the fear is that a multi-tier approach willl guettoize the basic system.

But change is inevitable. Our current system isn't sustainable and its bursting at the seams. Lives are being lost and risked and the mental stress people have to cope with waiting for treatment is inhumane as it is. Health care remains the number one issue for Canadians so that gives me some optomism.