[pachyderm]

Sophie Freud, Critic of Her Grandfather’s Gospel, Dies at 97 - The New York Times

[Skeezyks]

I guess one can't read the article unless you have an account. And I don't have one. But thanks for the info anyway. Hope you're doing well.

[downandlonely]

I have not read it, but I'm glad she was critical of his work. Freud really didn't understand female sexuality at all. And I heard he found out about a lot of women and girls being sexually abused, but was pressured into covering it up.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by Skeezyks

I guess one can't read the article unless you have an account. And I don't have one. But thanks for the info anyway. Hope you're doing well.

I posted it mainly just for the information that a Freud descendent had died.

Doing well? It varies. I think I am still growing and learning, but being so different from most (all?) people is a strain. But thanks for asking!

[pachyderm]

The lead to a Washington Post article (which I cannot read) says "The last surviving grandchild of Sigmund Freud described her grandfather as one of the “false prophets of the 20th century.”" I disagree with this, if true; I think Freud was very right in his earlier days but could not stand the reception his ideas got and changed his theories to imply that patients' stories of parental mistreatment were not true, and only reflected their own inner conflicts.

Being eventually mistaken is not equal in my mind to being a "false prophet".

[downandlonely]

He also had the penis envy theory though, that all women wish they had penises. I'm pretty sure that makes him a false prophet. I have never wanted a penis and don't know any women who do.

[Shoe]

My ex-wife wanted one.

[downandlonely]

I suppose some trans men do. But that is not all females.

[Shoe]

I agreed with not all females. The ex didn't become a trans-man. She identifies as being bisexual. Bisexuality is part of Freud's early work that got swept under the rug. I read a biography about him once where he was quoted as stating that he thought any theory on functional mental illness would have to focus on this bisexual aspect.

[downandlonely]

Interesting. I didn't know about Freud's work on bisexuality. I do know a lot of bisexual women though and don't know any who wish they had penises. I still think that's pretty rare.

[UnawareBS]

Sophie at 97 - wow.

[Shoe]

What I read before was that Freud got his theory about bisexuality from his one time friend, Fliess, but never gave him the credit. Here is a link to an interesting 4 or 5 page paper by Edward J Kempf. In it he tells about going and meeting with Freud and discussing the method he was using with his patients.

http://schizophreniathebeardedladydi...empfMay191.pdf

[AliceKate]

I would like a penis. I'm not Bi or Trans, but I do dream of being a man lots of the time. It's not something I notice in my dreams, either. I just am naturally male. My T says I have a lot of male parts.

[*Beth*]

So much of any type of science is dependent upon era. Sigmund was practicing at a time when women were sexually oppressed - and such things as incest were certainly not acknowledged. Sophie was practicing at the height of "women's lib," a time when the dirty underside of how woman had been mistreated since forever was being exposed.

My idea is to take parts from one era, parts from another, and try to come close to a whole.

[downandlonely]

Originally Posted by AliceKate

I would like a penis. I'm not Bi or Trans, but I do dream of being a man lots of the time. It's not something I notice in my dreams, either. I just am naturally male. My T says I have a lot of male parts.

If you feel male, just wondering why you don't think you are trans?

[AliceKate]

I am female in my dreams about half the time. Not sure how to identify whether I feel male or female during my waking hours (It's not as simple as in a dream, where I am factually one or the other). I think it's just a power thing. Most woman in my family were/are abusive and, simultaneously, weak. It occurs to me that I wish to feel strong, which my subconcious interpretes as being male.
Now of course one does not exclude the other, so I would pose you a question, if that's okay: How do I know if I'm trans?

[downandlonely]

I think it's ok to self-identify as trans. The trans people I know feel that they are innately the gender other than the one they were assigned at birth. But now they have the new non-binary designation, which I believe also qualifies as trans. And that is not identifying with either one gender or the other all the time. I think that's where I fit best. I've never felt particularly female or male.

[AliceKate]

Of course, that's fine, and I don't mind either way. I feel the need to lable myself has passed me by. I call myself female because I was born female. I also only ever had realtionships with men, but I have felt attracted to women before. No idea what the future holds, but whatever it holds, it's fine. I guess I mostly feel non-binary, as per your definition, though there are moments where I feel strongly male or female, too. It really makes no difference in the end, right?

ETA: Funnily, I own a stuffed animal that I identify as female but call "Mr Bear".

[downandlonely]

Originally Posted by AliceKate

Of course, that's fine, and I don't mind either way. I feel the need to lable myself has passed me by. I call myself female because I was born female. I also only ever had realtionships with men, but I have felt attracted to women before. No idea what the future holds, but whatever it holds, it's fine. I guess I mostly feel non-binary, as per your definition, though there are moments where I feel strongly male or female, too. It really makes no difference in the end, right?

ETA: Funnily, I own a stuffed animal that I identify as female but call "Mr Bear".

Sure, if the label doesn't matter to you, it doesn't make a difference.

[UnawareBS]

Originally Posted by downandlonely

If you feel male, just wondering why you don't think you are trans?

That is also a great point but maybe just not diagnosed?

[Shoe]

That is an excellent point Beth. The concept of sexual identity has evolved quite a bit since Sophie was practicing also. I was watching Real Time with Bill Maher about a month ago where he was showing a graph on the percent of the US population that identified as other than heterol-sexual by decades from the 1940's onward. I can't recall exactly but I think it was something like 30% consider themselves as other now. And as kind of a joke he said if you follow the curve upward by 2050 almost everyone will identify as other.
I doubt that is going to happen but you never know.

[Werewoman]

Originally Posted by downandlonely

He also had the penis envy theory though, that all women wish they had penises. I'm pretty sure that makes him a false prophet. I have never wanted a penis and don't know any women who do.

I have a FtoM transgender friend that is getting gender reassignment surgery but non-transgender females generally don't. I remember wanting to be a boy when I was growing up but I never wanted a penis.

[Werewoman]

Gender fluidity has always been with us as well as all the different forms of sexual identity. I think now society is evolving to the point where people are becoming more comfortable with who they are.

Non-binary especially intrigues me because my electronics background tells me the word binary refers to a state of electricity being present or not present. i.e. on/off, 1/0 - not one or the other. There's a difference. I keep thinking we need a better term for people who identify as neither - assuming I even understand what the term means to begin with.

[downandlonely]

To me, non-binary is rejecting the idea that there are only two genders (male and female) and that they are opposites. I think gender is more of a spectrum than strictly one or the other. I have some male traits and some female traits.

[Werewoman]

Originally Posted by downandlonely

To me, non-binary is rejecting the idea that there are only two genders (male and female) and that they are opposites. I think gender is more of a spectrum than strictly one or the other. I have some male traits and some female traits.

Oh, I thought that was GF - Gender Fluid


I agree it is more of a spectrum. I was called a tomboy as a kid and I still prefer male orientated activities. Gender is determined in the brain, not the genitalia.