[TheGal]

I am operating (and have been operating pretty much all my life) from a place of shame... deep shame.

How do you get out of the shame game?

[TheGal]

Someone said I should check out John Bradshaw... so I need to watch these videos:

[TheGal]

Also this video:

[Aviza]

Forgive yourself.

[TheGal]

Originally Posted by Aviza

Forgive yourself.

Thank you, Aviza.

I hope to be able to do that.

[Fuzzybear]

I find Pete Walker to be helpful. Thanks TheGal for this post.

[splitimage]

I like Bradshaw, I saw a number of his talks when I was in rehab.

One of the things that helped me move past shame was asking myself what I got out of holding onto it, and that helped me to realize that there was absolutely no value add to continuing to feel shame and so I was gradually able to move past it, as every time I started to feel shame, I was able to do self talk to stop the thought.

The other thing I find helpful is the practice of mindfulness and its focus on staying in the present. I use its precepts to get out of negative emotions in general as generally none of them are valid in the here and now.

But the biggest game changer for me in moving past shame was getting and staying sober. I used to have a lot of shame associated with my pattern of repeated relapses, but I've been sober now for almost 4.5 years and I know it's extremely unlikely that I'd go back to drinking now. That eliminated a lot of my sources of shame.

[TheGal]

Originally Posted by Fuzzybear

I find Pete Walker to be helpful. Thanks TheGal for this post.

Thank you for the tip, Fuzzybear... it is appreciated...

[TheGal]

Thank you splitimage... this is very helpful.

What do I get from holding on to shame? I'm going to give this some deep thought.


I wish you the best on your journey of sobriety.


I once heard the only way out of shame is through transformation (Helen Merrill Lynd)... a book that I want to get "On Shame and Identity".

Thank you so much for sharing...

[Marie123]

I am thinking that the shame you feel, belongs to someone else.

[TheGal]

Originally Posted by Marie123

I am thinking that the shame you feel, belongs to someone else.

That is an interesting thought...

You might very well be right, Marie, at least in part.

It's just tricky sorting out what belongs to me and what doesn't... I have an inventory to do.

[Samicat]

Wow. _Healing the Shame that Binds You_ was a huge book for me when I was in my late teens. That was my eye-opener to what I was feeling. I highlighted so many things in that book. I should really get another copy and look at it again.

[moodyblue83]

Is shame the same as guilt ?

[splitimage]

@moodyblue83
I think shame and guilt are two different things.

When I was in a day hospital program a number of years ago I had additional counselling for addiction by an addictions specialist he say guilr is saying "'I did something bad" while shame is saying "I am bad".


I can feel guilt over something I did but I can recognize that I can apologize of do something else to make amends for it and so move on, whereas shame is a deeper sense that I am responsible for something bad that happened, often to me, but it's because I'm inherently flawed and so there's nothing I can change. Or at least that's how I see the two. Hope that makes sense.

[ReptileInYourHead]

Hey TheGal.
I have had a lifelong battle with shame as well.
It’s a seemingly complicated matter, though most complicated things started out rather simply and it’s the mental gymnastics around that simple thing that complicates it, sometimes this is the case.
The first question is what are the thing(s) that you are ashamed about?
Obviously you need not answer, but if you are curious, you can ask me about the things that make me feel ashamed.
Or not.
I find discussing it and disseminating it helps me debunk the shame, wether it came from something I did, or something that was done to me, something I said or something that was said about me etc. until you begin to map it out and get a good look at it, as a whole, or at least a majority of a whole.
Maybe even make a graph or chart.
I did not make a chart but that’s because I have an unreasonable dislike of charts.

[TheGal]

@ReptileInYourHead

Thank you for replying.

I would like to discuss it, but preferably in private.

Let me know whether you're open to a pm discussion.

Thanks,

Gal

[TishaBuv]

Something I just read or heard said shame is what is felt when you hold yourself to some idealistic standard. This thought has helped me a lot put things in perspective and feel less shame.

[TheGal]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

Something I just read or heard said shame is what is felt when you hold yourself to some idealistic standard. This thought has helped me a lot put things in perspective and feel less shame.

Good point. Thank you for sharing.

I sometimes feel that the standards come afterwards because one feels so much shame one wants to make up for it by holding impossible standards.

Vicious cycle though, isn't it?

[16PennyNail]

Originally Posted by TheGal

I am operating (and have been operating pretty much all my life) from a place of shame... deep shame.

How do you get out of the shame game?

I know this is stupid, but that is like my middle name. I told this to my therapist as I have shame issues as well. She had told me to try and redirect it into something different, so I did.
Just take that Irene Cara song, "Fame," remove fame and replace it with shame

Shame! - You are the dumbest of feelings,
You get in the way of my healing,
Shame! -
Get-on-a-slow-boat-to Chi-ay-na,
Which then can be bombed by a plane,
Shame!
I don't deserve, fe...el this
I think will throw it awaaaay

My therapist was laughing so much I was afraid she might pass out. I know this is a serious issue. Humor is a way for me to tackle things that I can't figure out how to resolve any other way. I felt overpowering shame for years and years over something I had no control over. This technique works for me, it may not for others, my brain is all weird. And no, I am not using any illegal substances, just taking what has been prescribed. In the end, there is nothing for you to be ashamed of, our minds trick us on this one if they can. I hope in time you can overcome these feelings and cut through that fog of shame.

[TheGal]

Thank you @16PennyNail

Your post made me smile. Love the song!

Humor can cut through shame. You are on to something there.

[16PennyNail]

This is the way I presented it to my therapist and should have made it this way.

Shame!
You are a terrible feeling,
You get in the way of my healing,
Shame!
Get on a slow boat to Chi...ya..na,
Then you can be bombed by a plane,
Shame!
I-don't-deserve, to feel this,
So, I think will throw you ahh-way.

I am still getting used to how the text renders in here when you submit a post.

[RDMercer]

HI,

Of all things, I heard an interview with a former WWE wrestler, Jake The Snake Roberts, about his battle with alcoholism and addiction. AT one point the interview said you're taking all this stuff to avoid the pain, and he said, "No man, the shame. The shame of who my father was."

That one was striking to me.

I don't know you at all. All I can say is that I've been through a bad marriage and now a bad separation. I've experienced a lot of guilt manipulation and a lot of inflicted shame. I'm starting to say, "It's OK to not get everything right. I'm human," and I've begun to look at people in the eye more, and to stand up for myself a little more, adn to treat myself in some way from time to time.

It helps.

I wish you peace of mind and self acceptance, truly.

[TheGal]

@RDMercer

Thank you so much. Your input and well-wishes mean a lot.

I wish you well on your journey...

Thanks again

[RDMercer]

You know what???

There are a LOT of sucky people in the world. Like.... Really, really truly..... People that should be made to care for and carry a plant around to apologize to the world for the oxygen they use up.

If you are an OK human, you are way better than average!

There was a martial art instructor that told me one time, "Positive self talk is too big a step. Neutral self talk is the first step."

I'm not THAT bad.

I'm probably an OK person.

I'm probably as good as at least half the people I meet. Sure as heck I'm better than a couple of them.

Maybe I'm not doing great, but I'm smart enough to get a little bit better and I'm going to try to.

You know what? At least I'm aware that I want to do better. Some of these MFer's around me can't even see how much they suck.

I feel this shame because I think people can see my faults. I can't see their faults, and I mostly don't care about them.

Do you know who cares less about your issues than you? Everybody. So quit worrying about how you're doing and just keep doing.

My (former) SIL used to pick one superficial thing and focus on that in a positive way. "Maybe I'm not that smart, but I look hot today."


Gal.... Each one of these things is like one link or one plate in your armor to protect you.

I truly wish you some peace of mind. Maybe try armoring up with some of these things??


RDM

[ReptileInYourHead]

Word!
Well said RD!