[Gracey]

I'm just throwing this out there. . .kind of interested in what people think about this.

In the last two years I completed my MSW. I have a masters in social work, on top of a BSW. I worked really hard to get through school, support my family, and learn all that I could in order to be a help to others. More recently, I interviewed with an agency and upon further research, discovered that the director's title isn't a real title at all. It's an "honorary" degree that gives him the right to be called "Dr." In fact, the extent of his education is just short of a BA. Now, I'm all for the school of hard knocks, we've all been there. But I guess my question is this - should people without education really be mucking about in other people's affairs and emotions under the guise that they are a "Dr" of this or that. (FYI - He's Dr. Bill, in charge of the social counseling agency.)

What do ya'll think?

[AnnieL]

Hi Gracey

I too, have an MSW. I understand what you are saying, but I also think that the person who has the honorary title of "Dr.", has done something to deserve it.

I believe Nelson Mandela...and many others have been given honorary doctorates. As much as I like my work, and I know that I am skilled....I would honour anything that the likes of Mandela has to say. Now I am not putting the person you speak of in the same category has him, but those honorary doctorates are given out when someone has done something quite unique and wonderful.

Also...I have worked in treatement centres, where some of the best counsellors were those who had little formal training, but a huge amount of life experience. I have worked with recent graduates too. Many of them didnt know poop from toothpaste. I would hazard a guess, I was in the same boat upon graduation, but I learned from the people who knew of what they were speaking because they lived it. My education was just a jumping off point, and I am grateful for it.

Annie

I was severly depressed once (well many times lol) but on one particular occasion i was ill and went to see a marriage guidance councilor and she had no qualifications what so ever she was just a normal lady in her seventies who dished out advice for free, and the advice she gave me was astounding and got me out of a tricky situation......

[nothemama8]

Gracey, I don't have the letters you have or the education but instead I have on the job training and knowledge that only a mentally challanged person would know about their dx and there peers, hench I am the CEO of a consumer owned and operated support/workshop here in Erie, yes the education is wonderful but you need the street savey also
Angie

[AnnieL]

NoththeMama...I could not agree with anyone more. Well said.

[Irine]

It`s a problem in our society that we consider this AN EGO matter and TURNS it into PROFESSIONAL matter

Seriously! i say that one one hand *maybe* this degree thing is DEMANDED to be a director or wahtever he is....now if so...i`ll understand why he did that...and if he did, i see why you say it`s not the most honest thing you can do...

I don`t like it when people run after degrees especially WHEN IT`S NOT EARN but bought.

Of course if you earn something honestly you don`t enjoy looking at some1 who is called a Dr, but is fake.

I feel the same as AnnieL. an honorary Doctorate is not given to somebody just because they are a nice guy either. They must demonstrate a level of accomplishment that equals to the theory of study in academia.

Try to be open-minded about the situation. I am sure this person has earned the title with more than a sweet smile and a few life experiences. It could be that many people do not learn well in the formal setting and they chose another path of learning. They could have done all the research and read all the same textbooks but never stepped into a classroom. The academic environment teaches in a way that may be do-able for most but not for all.

I think that the value of an honorary degree depends on the standard that the school requires in order to grant one. Some people get honorary degrees because their achievements have been outstanding. Other people get honorary degrees because... Well... Of other reasons.

PhD is supposed to be a research degree. IMHO honorary PhD's should only be given out for outstanding research achievement. This isn't the case, however. Musicians sometimes get them etc etc.

A PhD is supposed to be a research degree. Even honorary PhD's don't tell you anything about how nice the person is or how helpful they may be etc etc.

[Perna]

I am surprised that the title of this thread does not reflect the subject. A diploma mill is a fake education/school with worthless degrees; an honorary degree is just that, a degree, usually from an often well-known, reputable school, to honor someone for extraordinary service in their field.

Sounds like Gracey is saying that this man uses his honorary degree in order to have the position that he holds at his workplace. That says something about the place where he works and I don't believe that it is good.

I didn't see that Gracey was saying anything about "life experience"..we can all agree that life experience can be much better than a degree. ..

Heck, I don't have a Ph.D and the medical director (psychiatrist) said that I did a better job at the psych hospital than some of the psychiatrists that saw patients there. They were impatient,no empathy, not insightful, rude to their patients and just generally not connected to their craft.

If I misread Miss Gracey's post, I'm sure she'll correct me.

I do pray that no one here takes this as a general indictment of psychiatrists. I have an excellent one now and I believe that most of them really care for their patients.

Usually when one obtains a post in virtue of a degree the place that is hiring requires information from the institution that granted the degree. Typically this is in the form of academic transcripts. A person who was granted an honorary degree would, of course, lack transcripts - the institution would probably provide some information on the grounds that the honorary degree was granted on, however.

It is possible to buy degrees online. Of course the degrees are fairly worthless. I'm sure that you can buy honorary degrees online, too. Of course the degrees are fairly worthless. People often go by institution because the assumption (probably fair) is that an institution with a reputation wouldn't risk their reputation by providing an honorary degree to someone who hadn't done anything meritworthy.

It is possible that this person has a mail order degree... That would tell you a little something about the place of work...

[Perna]

If I had a fairly specialized degree, I wouldn't care a whole lot about the degree of someone running a business as that wouldn't be my specialty; if the business was run well then I wouldn't really care what the degree was, whether it was legit or hard-knocks experience.

I think the issue might be whether this person has a 'legit' honorary degree (with 'hard knocks experience') or more along the lines of a 'mail order' honorary degree (that doesn't entail either a substantial contribution by way of research or by way of life achievements).

But I could be missing the point..

[eskielover]

I think that education is the key to getting your foot into the door so that you can build your life experiences & actual training on that solid foundation that has common knowledge to specific fields, careers, or professions.

In some cases, that education is college, trade schools, or whatever provides the solid groundwork to base the future of the position on.

As we progress from there, we have experiences, achievements, additional education....whatever we need to excell in the area we are working in. If along the path, we have accomplished something that is honored by others, & given an honorary title, then I feel that is earned just as much as someone working & achieving another level degree....which is also a huge achievement.

Achievement earned titles, positions, or other in my mind are all very equal & show that they have actually done something to earn what they have.

The one thing that makes me very very very very angry is the ability to just BUY a diploma. I know how much work goes into a degree. My BS degree in Computer Science way back in 1978 took much blood, sweat, & tears to earn. To stay current in the technology after I earned the degree & worked as an engineer continued to take blood, sweat, & tears. Then for someone to just buy a degree & think they can fake their way into a career that takes knowledge maked me angry. The thing is that when it comes to preforming, those people usually can't hack it & their lack of true knowledge comes out once they have run out of the Buzz words & talk that is used to cover up the lack of ability.

The sad thing is also that some people get their degree without putting energy or real learning into it. They get the degree by sliding by....just doing enough to get through & get that degree so they can get their food into the door. That happened with my Grandfather when I was a child. He was working as an Auditor for the Santa Fe railroad. I don't think he even had his high school diploma, but had to go out to work when he was young because the family needed money. Towards the end of his 50 years with the company, a kid just out of college came to the company, knowing one of the higher-up's & got the job opening over my Grandpa instead of moving him up to the position & letting the kid learn....just because the kid had the degree & knew someone. Sad thing was that my Grandpa ended up doing the kid's job because it had to be done.

I don't remember the ending of this situation, but hopefully as time went, the kid did learn his job & would be able to do the work he had to do, but that usually depends on the person's personality. Sometimes they feel that they can get by without ever having to do their job, others, it's just a learning curve & they work at being more than capable.

Buying your degree without knowledge, or buying your way in life, thinking that money can buy you everything including happiness is a very very sad life.

My feeling about education is that school provides the foundation for the education of life to be built on.
Debbie

[Gracey]

For me, the issue is more along the lines of the quality of care we offer our consumers.

People interview at our agency, and they see that the director is a PhD, and they never go any further than that. In fact, I've HEARD him say, "I hold a PhD from such and such college." He never says *honorary* and he NEVER tells anyone that he only completed his associates degree. Personally, I think this is a type of lying by omission. I rank it right up there with physicians who go to other countries to get their medical degrees, where the standard of care isn't equal to the US. Then they come here, and practice under Dr. So and so, and patients never know that they FLUNKED out of med school and had to go to Guatemala to get a degree.

There are NUMEROUS diploma mills online. I did a google search and found that for about $195 you can purchase your ThD from a variety of "online seminary" schools. For a little more, $495 you can actually buy a Bachelors or Masters degrees from another.

Pardon my vulgarity, but. . .WHAT THE HELL???? Whatever happened to good old fashioned EARNING the respect that comes with education? Where are the scholarly professors encouraging under grads and graduate students who have legitimate degrees to back up what they are selling?

I'm just appalled. Utterly and completely appalled.

[Perna]

Fake degrees have been going on for hundreds of years, since there's been formal education; you didn't really think the Wizard of Oz was a PhD wizard? :-) There are people trying to fool others in all situations, that's why there are licensing boards and exams, etc.

It is up to the person hiring/being hired to have a clue as to legitimate schools, degrees, background in that field? Sure someone will be happy to sell you a worthless piece of paper online, that goes without saying but 99.9% of people won't get a "real" job with that which will last any length of time! If they do, the hiring people "deserve" that person.

A legitimate, honorary degree, such as one from Georgetown University in Washington, D.C. http://president.georgetown.edu/hono...reepolicy.html is a real degree and no one has to be apologetic about it and do the humble, little, "Well, it's only an honorary degree you know. . ." If your agency's head's degree is from a two-bit school and he does his job poorly, etc. I wouldn't be working there, would not want to associate myself with that.

[AnnieL]

Perna...you just stated very clearly what I was attempting to. I didnt percieve the original post as a discussion of a degree bought online...but of someone being granted an honorary degree.

You are right....one need never apologize for an honorary degree....it has been well earned I am sure.

Is it about misrepresenting yourself?

For example... Most people who become PhD's will change their title to 'Dr'. How come? You are more likely to be upgraded to business class on an aircraft... You get better service more generally.

On an aircraft you are typically asked (before boarding) whether you are a 'Medical Doctor', however. That is your chance to say 'No - I'm not a Medical Doctor so don't rely on me in the case of a medical emergency!'. Not to make that clear would be misrepresenting yourself.

If a person has a PhD in Economics and ends up running a music school and lists their qualification as 'PhD' then in the interests of not misleading one would think they should make it clear that their PhD is in an UNRELATED field.

I don't know what this guy did to get his honorary degree. If it is related to social work then I think it is fair of him to list his qualification. If it isn't related then I guess I'd agree that he is misrepresenting himself.