Something we need to be conserned about??

Has anyone been watching on T.V. about the 3rd graders that had plotted to kill their third grade teacher? I have an 8yr old and she is in the third grade, and I could not imagine a child that age could have the thought process to even concoct something like that!!!! I want to hear others views on this. Do you feel that those children that are allegedly being prosecuted for this should be treated like adults, or should they be under the law of the no prosecution for those under that age of 13?

These kids allegedly had the whole thing plotted out, who was going to tie the teacher up, kill, tape the window's, and to clean it all up! I just wonder if they were actually going to go through with something like this.

It's really scaring to find that children this young can actually think to commit anything like this.

What's your feedback?

The three ringleaders who were arrested are being treated as juveniles. It's serious. The whole class was going to be in on it but apparently some in the class weren't sure it was serious or not but the one student brought a knife to school who was supposed to stab the teacher and another brought the paper weight to hit her over the head in the first place to knock her out and the cleaner upper brought stuff, etc.

It is a special needs class and I read they may have thought it was like cartoons and that they'd do whatever and that the teacher would then jump up again and it would all be over, etc.

Kids have odd thougths about things, not as much logic and structure and experience as adults. I remember the story of when my cousin almost hit my brother over the head with a hammer when they were 2-4, that sort of thing. It's not really a "plot" they were angry (the teacher reprimanded some of them for standing on a chair) and it's the "next" step in their minds. They can't think it "through" or understand about consequences, etc.

I think Perna is mostly right but I can't help thinking that all the violence on TV and games contributes a lot to that way of thinking.

I've got two 8 yr old granchildren, cousins, one a boy and the other a girl. Either one of them would run home to mom and dad scared out of their wits if their classmates were planning such a thing! The boy is Aspergers but that wouldn't matter. He's Special Needs but much has to do with what they are allowed to do or not do at home.

The girl is learning to use a 22 rifle but there's no way she'd even at aim at something she wasn't going to eat! Her five yr old brother has sworn off killing ANYTHING that's alive. He wouldn't even kill one stinkin' snail in his collection while they were here last week.

Of course 8-year-olds can't be treated as adults. My state considers 17 and up "adult" for purposes of charging. It's true in most states but exceptions can be made in individual cases. But no one in their right mind is going to charge a 3rd grader as an adult. It will be dealt with in the juvenile system, where all proceedings are not open to the public (or the media) and all records are sealed.

You know sociopaths all start somewhere...I'd say the healthier children in the group new that they had to tell, where as the ringleader even as a child can be very charming and persusive..I know... I was the victim of one for many yrs...

I blame the damn TV!

First off, parents are to blame here. They probably set their children in front of the TV, don't monitor what they watch, and never discuss the difference between fantasy and reality.

In movies, TV sitcoms, the media...the seriousness involved in plotting a murder is surreal. Children can't comprehend the loopholes movies pull when it comes to murder and violence...like how a person can be shot numerous times and survive and how a person can murder an entire group by themselves and never be prosecuted...things of this nature.

I think it's sad that children that age can even comprehend that killing someone is ok. When I was that age......the 10 commandments was what we all lived by in our lives....even if we weren't Christian or Jewish. We had values that were just known ways to live by & knew right from wrong because our parents taught us & society also believed it then.

Now????? Where are the values? Where are the parents???? Where is societies norms???? Why don't many parents feel it's their job to teach values to their children.....oh yes, they will grow up & make up their own minds what is right & wrong...just the same as when we grew up without religion....when we grow up....we will decide what we want to choose to believe or not......so if we choose to believe that killing isn't wrong....does that make it right?

I think it is sad, but as society is loosing it's ability to express it's values & as we keep our values quiet because we don't want to offend anyone that thinks differently......this is what comes of our tolerance.....of course, this is my opinion....but it seems that my opinion is fairly backed up by what is going on in society.

I heard that there are people who are forcing cities with public 10 commandments being displayed to remove them.....by telling the governments that they have to put up hate displays if they allow the 10 commandments because of civil rights or they have to remove everything....where is this world coming to?....we see what it's coming to when 8 year olds plot to kill their teachers without any feelings that it is wrong. We want everyone to be free to think for themselves & yet we are appalled when things like this happen.

There are a few things I am very opinionated on....this is one of them.
Debbie

Well, as a member of the media and a parent myself, I can't stress enough the need for parents to control what their kids watch. Because I can tell you right now, the industry cannot and will not do it for you. Channels with mature content all compete with each other so even if one channel wanted to curb the portrayal of violence in their shows, they'd quickly discover they lost their market share to a competitor with stronger content.

So yes, tv, movies, videogames, they all contribute because children are watching/playing things never intended for them.

Cyran0

I agree with you all!! I do watch what my children see on the T.V. I find that is very important to watch with your children, or view the show they have been wanting to see before they get to watch it. There is enough on the news that kids see, like when September 11th hit, I watched it in my own personal time.......but not with my kids. I do find it important to talk with your kids about what is going on in the world, but it needs to be kept at a PG-13 when being discussed.

I don't think those kids should be tried as adults, but they do need to be punished for what they were attempting to do. I did not know that they were special needs children, and that makes this even harder for me to comprehend. I always view children as innocent, and could never imagine a child having the mind of someone who has been alive for at least 16+ years. I hope that the children can get the help they need, and my prayers go out to them, and to the teacher. I really have to say that the parents of these children better saddle up, and be prepared for what is going to happen. I feel that the parents are for sure the ones that have not been watching or paying enough attention to their kids.

This is something that is going to stick in the back of mind for awhile, along with everything else that is going down in our world!

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SeptemberMorn said:
I think Perna is mostly right but I can't help thinking that all the violence on TV and games contributes a lot to that way of thinking.


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I agree!
Today, it is not "cool" to help the other but to "be the strong" and to HIT the other!! to be cruel! we need to change that!!

eh. that`s crazy. i agree abou tthe decadence of our society!

It seems to me that there is more to it than just controlling & limiting the media's effect on what our children watch & the games they play. I agree, that control is definitely an important part but it isn't the only issue that is missing in the picture.

When we as parents started to eliminate teaching our children good moral values; respect & being curtiousof others, whether we like them or not; treating others the same way we want to be treated by them......(this has nothing to do with religion....it just has to do with basic respect of others). We started to eliminate these things from the training of our children about the time we decided that we didn't want to cram the same values down the throats of our children that we had cramed down out throats. After all, our children should be allowed the freedom we didn't have, to make up their own minds about their value system without anything to base it on. Just about the same time we decided that we shouldn't cram our values onto our children was about the same time the media decided they should increase the amount of violence & crime & hate they should cram down the throats of the public.

When we think that just by keeping our children away from the media's influence will do the trick.......we are missing the other piece of the puzzle that started being left out at the same time the media increased it's attack on the public. It's much easier to point all our fingers at the media....after all, look at all the horrible things that come from the media. That way the only responsibility we have to take is to keep our children away from that horrible media monster.

The problem is that even with our controlling the media influence on our children, there is still the void that has been created by our lack of accepting the responsibility as parents for training our children with the basic moral values, human respect & love for others that needs to be at the foundation of a successful, peaceful society.

Debbie

Hello Married and everyone. I feel that as a mother of 3 Grown children. ages 18-23, that i have been part of witnessing the most severe breakdown in society towards young people and children. It is obscene what children are being alowed to watch on TV an dlisten to on the radio in the United States. Many parents are opting for turning off the TV or giving up cable TV for local channels and being more disciplined in letting their children play with others children for lack of concern for children from undisciplined parents. I live in Ohio and there is a grave concern for the children here since (((Shocking behavior))), and intolerable behavior has become a standard for many children and young adults, along with drinking, and having sex like it is a career. I really fear where all this imbalanced bahavior is leading. Ohio has recently switched to a dress code just to improve the quality of life and stop some of the violence amoung young peole in school. Hopefully there are more improvements on the Horizon for the young people of any area that is overriden with criminal minded activity, and disobedient behavior. It not only consumes society, but innocent people as well. Take care to you all and good day. Soidhonia

A lot of good points here, but I want to through my 2 cents worth here, I think there are two major issues that have not been touched on. The first it seems that the level of shocking and violent kid behavior has risen with the increase of various pysho-active drugs we are now putting into them. I am not a parent, but I work with parents who talk about various meds like Ritalin so casually. Do we not stop to think that pumping our kids full of these drugs would not have an adverse affect on their minds at some point? I here about ADD this and ADD that and I will admit that a very few children could use the help but good lord since when do drugs become a substiute for us simply carrying out our duties as responsible adults and providing a framework of wise and correctly applied discipline.

The other thing is daycare. I know this makes a lot of people mad to hear it, but I believe daycare, in general, is a bad idea. I know there are a lot of single parents out there so they have no choice but to use it, but think about it. If we have a child in daycare for 8 hours a day, and they spend only a couple of hours with the actual parents, whose values are the children picking up? In effect are we by utilizing daycare not in essence, paying someone to raise our children for us, at the most critical stage of their development? I have always heard that the first 5 years of a person's life profoundly shapes who they become as adults.

I hear a lot of people say that they need the two incomes and thats why they have to have daycare. I have found however in a lot of cases that most if not all of one of the incomes is almost entirely consumed by daycare and its related costs( supplies, gas to and from, etc) I have seen families whose mothers went back to being at home moms for a few years, and were sucessful at doing so by making a few short term sacrifices in material wealth( Smaller House, older car, less "toys")

Also I have read more than one study that suggests that children brought up in daycare, are more prone to acts of aggression and more likley to develop various emotional and mental issues later in life.

thats just awfull i feel those children should not but charged as adults because they are not they need psychiatric help to encounter where the problem lays they are babies with some issues they need help not jail

I agree with all of the above so how are WE going to change the way we live so that our kids and other kids we know and don't know will have a better quality of life?

I want to challenge a general assumption running through this thread: youth are getting ever more violent.

I started researching the realities of this assumption and found this simply is not true.

The trend for youth violence goes something like this, youth violence increased dramatically throughout the 80's and peaked in 1993. Ever since '93 the rate of teen violence has consistently decreased (though we haven't reached pre 80's levels for all age groups).

The following is taken from "Executive Summary Youth Violence: A Report of the Surgeon General"

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/librar...ce/summary.htm

"Since 1993, when the epidemic peaked, youth violence has declined significantly nationwide, as signaled by downward trends in arrest records, victimization data, and hospital emergency room records."

The following is taken from the Bureau of Justice Statistics, a component of the Office of Justice Programs in the U.S. Department of Justice.





As you can see, rates of violent crime and homicides has decreased since '93 for younger age groups.

So what about all this school violence? Yup, that's lower too. Virginia University summed everything up nicely at:

http://youthviolence.edschool.virgin...tatistics.html

So where is the perception of increased violence coming from? The media continues to run increasing numbers of stories featuring teen violence despite the steady decline of said violence. Check out this article published by the McKnight Foundation: http://www.mcknight.org/hotissues/framing_youth.aspx

In conclusion, the youth are not more violent now, we're just more aware of it because of increased media saturation.

Hopefully this is taken by all as good news.

Cyran0

Cyrano,

Your facts go along with what I was saying.....my generation (the children of the 50's) became parents & had our children in the 70's. Some of us that became parents believed that we shouldn't shove our values, morals, or anything else that we thought was shoved down our throats onto our children as I said in my previous post. Those are the children of the 80's when the violent actions peaked. Gee, it definitely seems there is a correlation. I am sure that there are many other issues that are part of the violent picture.....it is never just one thing that goes into problems that huge, but I believe that our lack of moral values we didn't want to corrupt our children with was definitely at least part of the problem.

Debbie

Nice research and a great post, I learned alot, much appreciated!

TJ