[EJ711]

when they are raised with unrealistic expectations and very little emotional support and unconditional love?

[wanttoheal]

Not sure about the effects scientifically, but the results are some really cool people at PC to learn and grow with.

[Timgt5]

Some end up like me: Avoidant Personality Disorder,

Failing to win the parents approval is one of its root causes

[pachyderm]

Look around you...

[KathyM]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
wanttoheal said:
Not sure about the effects scientifically, but the results are some really cool people at PC to learn and grow with.


</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
They become museums and art galleries?

Sorry, couldn't resist - don't know the answer to the question either.

[bebop]

EJ that is how I was raised. how my brothers were raised. I think it is what inside a person as to how it affects them. like I have one brother that is way out there in his thinking. I think I am pretty normal.

[I_WMD]

... yea we end up expecting others to abandon us ,, or us them .....for love and care are foriegn,, and we May get lucky and Find Peep with Big Heart and shoulders to match . But all can be cool if [ for me ] brush some things aside ,,, And reley on the future and your own determination to set things right .

[KathyM]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
bebop said: I think I am pretty normal.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">So says our "busy bee"

[SeptemberMorn]

Somebody like me.

[Fuzzybear]

or me

[Fuzzybear]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I_WMD said:
... yea we end up expecting others to abandon us ,, or us them .....for love and care are foriegn,, and we May get lucky and Find Peep with Big Heart and shoulders to match . But all can be cool if [ for me ] brush some things aside ,,, And reley on the future and your own determination to set things right .

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

[Rapunzel]

Yeah, you get us.

I blogged about pretty much this topic, a while ago:

http://rapunzel.psychcentral.net/200...l-we/#comments (Invalidating environments and the consequences of them).

Besides BPD and other personality disorders, there are many sequences of possible results. Children develop attachment disorders, and sometimes those develop into oppositional defiant and conduct disorders; or for other children, anxiety, depression, PTSD. ADHD fits in there somewhere too, and probably has a lot more environmental factors than most people recognize. Kids who are predisposed to have the potential for schizophrenia will be more likely to develop those symptoms. Pretty much any risk factors will be compounded and there will be less resilience.

And then those kids grow up, and the cycle continues across generations, because we do the best that we can, but we can only do what we know.

[MyBestKids2]

This is an interesting question. I certainly don't have any definitive answers, wonder if there are some official stats somewhere???

I agree with wanttoheal, brought me here to meet some of the finest in the world!!

(((EJ711)))

[Fuzzybear]

they end up insecure, low self esteem, trust issues, possessive in relationships ... always think people will go from them anyway so they try and push them away first, never think they are worthy of love or affection or friends, usually dislike or hate themselves, can't take compliments ..... the list is endless.

Jinnyann xoxoxoxoxo

[KathyM]

EJ

Since I've already spilled ice cream all over your thread, I'll give it a shot at being serious.

I think it makes them afraid to face reality, and they act out when they are forced to face the truth. Some become paralyzed with fear, some become explosive and lash out, some escape into a fantasy world of their own.

It forces them to walk with crutches.

I'm a little confused by "unconditional love though." That's something only a dog can give. If you give unconditional love to your child, you're not teaching him anything. You become the dog, and your child becomes the master. It's unrealistic to expect to give or receive unconditional love from another human being because there will always be consequences to certain conditions.

I prefer to call it "never-ending love." There were times when I was furious with my son and had to punish him - but he always knew how much I loved him. He knows my love for him will never die.

[pachyderm]

> wonder if there are some official stats somewhere???

It seems to me that it has taken a long time for the "official" mental health professionals to admit that early mistreatment has anything to do with adult onset of mental illness, so I expect more understanding from people here than I do from "officials" in general. Maybe they are now catching up with us.

[Fuzzybear]

[AAAAA]

There's got to be a study somewhere. They've studied how monkeys behave when they are given the food they need, but no nurturing or positive interaction.

Isn't "Failure to Thrive" a condition that infants get when they are denied enough human contact.

I did see a show on BBC, or Discovery Health about this. It was called Feral Children.

[seeker1950]

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jinnyann said:
they end up insecure, low self esteem, trust issues, possessive in relationships ... always think people will go from them anyway so they try and push them away first, never think they are worthy of love or affection or friends, usually dislike or hate themselves, can't take compliments ..... the list is endless.

Jinnyann xoxoxoxoxo

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
Wow! JInnyann, you just described me, and much better than I could have put into words! As I read the opening question, I kept thinking, "Where to begin!??"
Also, yes, it's good to have a safe harbor like PC with people who do understand.
I teach middleschool age kids, and have noticed that most of the girls have a lot more self confidence than I ever had at that age, or even up into my 20'sl! I had to work really hard to gain some kind of positive self-image, acquired in my mid 40's!
Patty

[seeker1950]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Rapunzel said:

And then those kids grow up, and the cycle continues across generations, because we do the best that we can, but we can only do what we know.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

When my daughter was young, a counselor, after hearing of my abusive childhood, stated pointblank to me..."And you do the same to your daughter, don't you!" To which I replied, "NO, I've never once hit my daughter." He didn't believe me, but he apologized the next session. With education and awareness, one CAN break the cycle. My daughter and I have a great relationship to this day.
Patty

[Fuzzybear]

i'm glad you've found pc a safe place

[Rapunzel]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I'm a little confused by "unconditional love though." That's something only a dog can give. If you give unconditional love to your child, you're not teaching him anything. You become the dog, and your child becomes the master. It's unrealistic to expect to give or receive unconditional love from another human being because there will always be consequences to certain conditions.

I prefer to call it "never-ending love." There were times when I was furious with my son and had to punish him - but he always knew how much I loved him. He knows my love for him will never die.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Dogs do love unconditionally. But a lot of parents, especially those who grew up in dysfunctional families, don't understand what unconditional love is and is not. Unconditional love doesn't mean that there aren't consequences. It means that even though you have to correct your child and teach him or her how to behave, you don't stop loving them when they make mistakes. You love them enough that they know you still love them, no matter what they do. And you love them enough to correct and teach them, and not to feel like you have to buy their love or be their buddy and never show disapproval.

Punishment is only one way to correct though. And physical punishment isn't the only way either. Sometimes it is all that we learned, but, yes, we can break the cycle and learn other ways to discipline. Many people do break the cycle. There is just more to it than not hitting. We have to learn a whole new way to relate to people, and it is hard work because the tendency is to revert to what we know. We tend to get paralized and fearful, or explode, or escape into a fantasy world, and we pass those patterns along.

God loves us unconditionally. He is the ideal parent. He has to follow laws though, and so there are consequences. His promise is that He will always love us and will help us to learn and improve ourselves, and reach our potential, and return to His love, even when we have to receive consequences.

[EJ711]

Kathy,

This isn't my thread -- it is our thread.

In my mind unconditional love means you still love your child even when he disobeys you or does something you don't want him/her to do. It is extremely important for children to know there are consequences, and disciplining a child is part of being a good parent.

[EJ711]

AAAA,

Yes infants who are not held or touched enough can die. When children fail to thrive it is usually a sign that they have been neglected or abused.

We adopted a 12-yr. old girl from the state foster system back in 2000. OMG what a mistake! The child was feral in many ways and severely emotionally disturbed. Her worse and most severe issue was attachment disorder. After almost three years we could no longer safely manage her in our home, and made the extremely difficult decision to disrupt the adoption. Even though it has been almost six years, I am still heart-broken about how things turned out.