What are the effects on children ...

I was raised this was and ended up with Borderline, Avoidant and Dependent Personality disorders among other things. I am now having to learn how to live life as an adult. Having to learn things that should have been taught me as a child.

Jbug

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EJ711 said:
when they are raised with unrealistic expectations and very little emotional support and unconditional love?

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I'm a perfect example too. Anxiety, depression, low self-esteem, bulimia, etc.

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Rapunzel said:
(Invalidating environments and the consequences of them).

ADHD fits in there somewhere too, and probably has a lot more environmental factors than most people recognize.

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Environmental factors definitely play a role in ADHD but not necessarily the way you're thinking of. An unsupporting family environment can worsen ADHD but in my opinion it doesn't "cause" real ADHD. An abusive/invalidating environment can cause a child to display "ADHD-like" symptoms. The child might act out and appear to be "hyperactive". Or he'll be so stressed out and preoccupied with his problems that he has trouble concentrating and focusing and thinking clearly.

The ADHD thing has been complicated by rampant misdiagnosis. I suspect that many kids from dysfunctional environments have been falsely diagnosed even though they don't have "the ADHD gene(s)". The difference between the misdiagnosed ADHD kids and the "real" ADHD kids is the origin of their symptoms. The abused kids are exhibiting "ADHD-like" behaviors as a normal response to stress while the "true" ADHD kids have a biological/genetic defect that causes their symptoms, regardless of their environment.

I strongly believe there's a biological/genetic explanation for ADHD because I had ADHD symptoms WAY before my family environment became dysfunctional. Once upon a time, I had a very loving, normal family. My ADHD problems caused a lot of stress on my parents but they were patient and loving in elementary school. I was young so they probably just figured I was just immature and just needed some extra time/attention to catch up w/the other kids. They tried extra attention, meeting with my teachers, rewards, sports, loss of privileges, private schooling, HOME schooling, tutoring, and who knows what else. They even enlisted the teenage neighbor to be my babysitter during the summer! Most parents only use babysitters when they're NOT actually at home, lol.

It wasn't until junior high that my mother became abusive. At this point I was old enough to "know better" so she began to see me a defiant spoiled brat who was misbehaving on purpose. My dad also died before 5th grade so that made things even more complicated. Anyway, my mom was sometimes physically abusive but the emotional abuse was much more devastating and very invalidating. So yeah, that's why I became suicidal, "depressed", and eating disordered.

My thoughts on depression are similar. I suspect that there are people who have "genes" that cause/contribute to clinical depression. But I also believe that many people w/a depression diagnosis are simply exhibiting a normal response to stress/trauma. In my case I don't think I have "real" depression. I've been taking ADs because of my doc, but I honestly don't think I have "the depression gene(s)". I think I just have "depression-like" symptoms as a result of my life experiences. I think the people who feel depressed despite having a normal family life are the ones who actually have "real" clinical depression.

Also, I think many people don't realize that ADHD is a lot more complicated than hyper kids bouncing off the walls. ADHD also causes a lot of cognitive deficits. I don't mean to sound whiny. I know there are many mental disorders like bipolar, schizophrenia, DID, psychotic depression, clinical depression, that are much worse than ADHD. But I also want to emphasize that ADHD is much more disabling than people realize. It's not a devastating diagnosis like psychosis but it's NOT a "no big deal" type of thing either. I guess I see it as something like asthma or diabetes. People with these conditions can live very normal lives if the disorder is diagnosed and well managed but if the condition isn't treated and managed properly, the results can be devastating. Same thing with ADHD.

Wow, I didn't expect to write such a long post. Sorry about that. If you're still reading this, thanks.

I absolutely agree that discipline is a piece of the whole puzzle of unconditional love. Children want limits, they need them to feel safe.

In my opinion unconditional love is just that, no matter what you do, I'll love you anyway. I may not approve of your behavior at this time, but I still love you.

Discipline in our home always begins with "I love you more than you can imagine, do NOT do _____ again. You are better than that."

Thanks EJ - just wanted to make sure we were on the same page. Some people think unconditional love is giving a children everything they want or solving all their problems for them. That can leave them just as crippled in life as no love at all.

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EJ711 said:
AAAA,

Yes infants who are not held or touched enough can die. When children fail to thrive it is usually a sign that they have been neglected or abused.

We adopted a 12-yr. old girl from the state foster system back in 2000. OMG what a mistake! The child was feral in many ways and severely emotionally disturbed. Her worse and most severe issue was attachment disorder. After almost three years we could no longer safely manage her in our home, and made the extremely difficult decision to disrupt the adoption. Even though it has been almost six years, I am still heart-broken about how things turned out.

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((((EJ711))))) That is so sad. Do you know what became of the girl? I'm sorry about what happened.

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EJ711,

Kudos to you for trying. As I recall on the special, if you don't get to these children by a certain age, I believe its somewhere around 6 years of age, they will be forever unable to form relationships. If they are not spoken to by 12, they will be unable to speak in sentences. Since its cruel to subject children to this type of experiment they're forced to find children that have already been neglected and speculate.

I'm so sorry that the girl you adopted didn't work out. We'd like to think that with a lot of love and patience we can fix any problem. The sad part is that it is often too late. I can't even begin to imagine your heartbreak. (((((EJ11))))) We need more people like you in the world!

Bebop,

Did you and your brothers comfort each other? Did having siblings help? It is amazing to see the differences in how each sibling reacts to the situation. My father’s childhood was awful. His mother was married a million times (actually 6).

She abandoned her first three children (2 girls and a newborn boy) with a relative of her husband. (My father met this brother for the first time when dad was in his 30s). Her next daughter was raised from birth to marriage (How do you just pick one child to raise out of 6?!?). The fourth daughter and my father were farmed out to different relatives, then eventually to a crazy couple that lived in town. At 8 years old he would have to stand in the corner for hours if he dared visit his mother on the way home from school. The youngest two were finally able to return home when my grandmother’s health was failing and she needed someone to take care of her a year before she died.

I don’t know my eldest two Aunts all that well, but my uncle was mentally unbalanced and an alcoholic. They were not left with a loving relative, but an abusive one. My middle Aunt is a wonderful woman that married and had the most perfect family I’ve ever seen. She is my saving grace, the reason I’m able to have a “normal” family.

My youngest Aunt acted out from the time she was 12. She developed very early and is very beautiful so she sought the attention of older men from that time on. And I mean OLDER, she was 12 “dating” a 30 year old. She eventually married 8 times herself, had 8 kids and was a grandmother at 30 and a great-grandmother in her late 40’s. Her middle daughter is my age and had a baby at 13!!!! By the time she was 53, she had a great-great- granddaughter. Her children and grandchildren are scattered far and wide, and many have nothing to do with her now.

My father was an alcoholic that put his mother on a pedestal. She died when he was 12 so he wasn’t old enough to be angry with her, to realize that she wasn’t fit to be a parent. His Aunt attempted to adopt him, but for some reason known only to his mother, she would not allow it. That Aunt would say “even a wolf doesn’t abandon its young.” But in spite of his drinking problem (which he did eventually overcome), he was determined to be the best at everything. An attempt to get his mother’s approval I’m sure.

> “even a wolf doesn’t abandon its young.”

Human not equal wolf.

the key is to do it rt. kids are very complicated and delicate creatures. we are so influental. we can see one thing, even something seemly unimportant and it can change us forever.
im still young but i've seen alot. way too much. there are wickd ppl in the world, but ifu look, there are also benevolent ppl in the world too.
guess what im trying to say is that, anyone can influence a child but the person that makes the most difference is the parents. bc in a child's life, parents are the only ppl that they can really turn to. someone that they can feel safe with. and if the parents are too loose or too protective then its different. theres noone really they can go to. so, the whole world has the unfortunate ability to infulence the child and the child will listen with open ears bc we're not taught better not to.
its all about the home. i havent been with my parents my whole life but i knew that i had a home. i may not have been there but i knew that i had one. im happy to say im with my dad finally and im happy to be. i love it.
its all about the right kind of love.
* * *
the boy journeys on as the earth silently resonates with his heartbeat
thats just something i said when i was alone. it made me feel like i was surrounded by everyone that loves me
thanx for reading and best of luck everyone.

For me the result of being raised by a bipolar & alcoholic mother & alcoholic, unfeeling father is that I have all the symptoms people have listed above & I am constantly "testing" my husband to see if he will really stay with me.

It's a sick situation that I am trying to control. I would do some outrageous thing & see if he stuck around. Yeah, he did, so I would create another crisis & see what would happen. Still here. Been married 34 years. I also have bipolar so that does certainly complicate my compulsion to "test" all the time.

Also, my mother committed suicide. She was physically a very beautiful woman & that is all my father would ever say about her--that she was very beautiful. He told me she killed her self because she was losing her looks. I thought that was such a wrong attitude, but you know what?

I've put on weight with my psych meds & my husband said he no longer found me sexually attractive due to that & I overdosed that night!! I mean, talk about internalizing my father's beliefs & then having my husband say that meant I had no worth at all so I tried to kill myself. Been 1 1/2 years & still having trouble getting over it & the emotional pain that one remark has brought on me.

Basically, I think there is a core feeling of being OK that is lacking. Always looking to other people for confirmation that I am OK & if I don't get it, I am devastated as it confirms my own beliefs that I am really a pretty worthless person--sometimes thinking why the heck am I even here?--Suzy

<font color="purple">I don't know, I've had a realatively normal childhood and I'm adversly effected so I guess it just depends on the kids themselves. </font>