[Fuzzybear]

"Groups generally aren't very productive until people get fed up with each other and start challenging what other people have to say"

Any thoughts?

[misty]

hmm??? challanging as far as confronting each other you mean?
larks

[Fuzzybear]

yup :-)

[misty]

I would much rather be confronted if someone sees that I'm stepping out of bounds or hurting someone, doing something wrong as long as they are not abusive about it. Yes, I think that's very productive. If everyone kept there mouth shut and let me go on with what I'm doing how would I learn? Just my thaughts.
larks

[misty]

Have to say too, I don't really like being confronted but appreciate it even if I do get angry at first most times.
I

[SweetCrusader]

I don't like the "fed up with eachother" part. I think that suggests there has to be anger and rejection in groups. And I certainly hope that's not the case. I'll probably be joining my first interpersonal group in January and I'm pretty scared...

[SpazKatt]

This is the reason I don't like group projects I just had an awful experience with my last one

[Malady156]

I would much rather be confronted if someone sees that I'm stepping out of bounds or hurting someone, doing something wrong as long as they are not abusive about it.

I agree but I would take it one step further -- if someone is not going to take care not to use subtle put-downs or avoid triggering me by invalidating tone/attitude/words when they "confront" then they are best off to shut up and leave me alone because they won't get anywhere with me. I, too, need to "learn" -- like everyone else -- but I won't "learn" anything if my buttons are pushed and I'm put either on the defensive or into an emotional tailspin over it.

What works best for me is if/when others can own their own crap and make it about themselves rather than about me. For example: "When you said/did _______ it hurt me because _________" works a lot better than "you are being an immature selfish jerk" or those passive/aggressive, intelligence-insulting sideways methods like posting some huge diatribe about how people who do X or Y are stupid, immature, etc. If someone wants the "right" to confront me they have to own their own crap first! Otherwise how can they expect me to respond in like kind by taking responsibility for mine??? I have no model for it and I need models, not ultimatums. I learn best from others' modeling. Ultimatums and negative "blanket definitive statements" just make me go, "yeah? and who died and made YOU god??"

[misty]

We were taught that once about using the "I" statement instead of "You" statement in communicating and how it is much more productive in confronting. Thanks for reminding me.
Larks

[Malady156]

Yeah, "I" statements ... like ... "I'm certain I'm always right and you're always wrong!!" LOL -- j/k -- I know that's not a real "I" statement ...

[wisewoman]

Again, last to the party. Can I ask for a gift from all of the people here? How bold I am huh? I would like to ask each of us to try to take it on faith that we are not intentionally hurting eachother and that no one is intentionally triggering. If we can do that we can feel more love to give others and more love to receive from others. Now, I asked for a gift, and if you all decide to give it is your own free will. Thanks for hearing me ask.

[(JD)]

While I think I know where you're coming from (((FUZZY))) I don't think it's always true. For example, last weekend I volunteered... it was a situation where none of us knew each other yet we all had a common goal... and worked together sucessfully to achieve that goal. There were NO confrontations.

I think some of the reasons it worked is:

We are all adults assured of our abilities.
None of us needed to have overt attention.
None of us needed to "prove" anything to the others.
We all were there for a common goal.
We all accepted others' deficits and filled in where needed, automatically...
and though the above happened, no one's feelings were hurt because of the prior items I listed.

Here, on psychcentral, while we all have a generally common goals:, to support others and to gain support, we don't all have adult attributes nor assurances of our capabilities... and at times we all need more attention than another...

i am chiming in to say that the 'fed up' part really bothers me. i've run groups for years and if you have a good therapist/moderator it shouldn't get to the point of 'fed up'.......and also a good leader can assure that everyone knows to use 'i' messages....i don't like the feeling of a 'mob' group dynamic. that feels too anti therapy for me. pat

i will gladly give you a gift wisewoman....i'm here for support and to give support and love. i've certainly received a ton of both and deeply appreciate the people here........pat

[Fuzzybear]

Hi Pat, it was a therapist who made that statement... and I agree with you.

Thanks everyone for your replies!

Take care,
Fuzzy

[wisewoman]

Thanks for the gift pat.

[kimmydawn]

I wish there were a group around here for me there's nothing of that nature for me.

I've heard tho, that when ppl get comfortable enuf to say what they need to say, it gets really interesting. I'm not a confrontational person, so I don't think I'd like that at all...i get too defensive and angry. Are most groups confrontational? Just curious.

be safe,

kimmydawn

[Myzen]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
"Groups generally aren't very productive until people get fed up with each other and start challenging what other people have to say"

Any thoughts?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Hi Fuzzy,

Hmmmm, that takes some thought.

Over the years I've noticed how quickly 'group dynamics' sets in, and how strong the dynamic is when it's set.

Often no one challenges the pecking order for ages, if most people in the group are happy to go along with that. When a challenge does come, it usually means that someone leaves the group.

After a lot of years teaching (in adult ed) I've seen this pattern over and over again. Adult groups are a good way to see how stuck some people are in their behaviour patterns, and how the dominant/submissive behaviour gets played out ad infinitum.

Last night I went to the Xmas meeting of a poetry group I dumped months ago, but I got a phone call and thought - Oh well. It was exactly the same as before, and I knew why I had dumped it. Challenge? couldn't be bothered, I just went somewhere else.

I guess the anathema to adult groups is when someone in the group becomes both dominant and boring and the formal leader of the group lacks the guts to deal with it. That's when the rest of us give each other the pained and knowing looks!

Here's a thought - That can't happen here on the boards, because others don't have to read your post, they can just skip over it. reading the posts is a voluntary act, and that's what makes the boards so special, in my view. I've been ignored a few times (rarely on this board) and I think it is a learning experience, good for my 'rejection sensitivity'.

An interesting subject Fuzzy.

Cheers, Myzen

[Fuzzybear]

Thanks for your replies kimmydawn and Myzen.
Good post Myzen!

Take care,
Fuzzy

There's different types of "confrontation" in groups. A well run group will allow a person to be confronted about their behavior and yet never let it get "ugly".....I have a very strong will and expect certain boundaries to be respected when I run a group. So, no, I don't think that most groups are "confrontational".....at least I hope they aren't....because that sure gets in the way of hearing, helping and healing.

[Myzen]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
Again, last to the party. Can I ask for a gift from all of the people here? How bold I am huh? I would like to ask each of us to try to take it on faith that we are not intentionally hurting eachother and that no one is intentionally triggering. If we can do that we can feel more love to give others and more love to receive from others. Now, I asked for a gift, and if you all decide to give it is your own free will. Thanks for hearing me ask.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Hi Wisewoman,

You've got my vote.

Cheers, Myzen