[digdug]

I am half-Irish...my Mom was born near Dublin, and her family moved here in the late 50s. I am an Irish citizen (automatic because of my Mom), and even have an Irish passport from when I traveled through Europe several years ago.

Having said all this, I find St. Patrick's Day a bit of a downer. First of all, I find it quite insulting that so many people use it as an excuse to get absolutely wasted. I'm no prude, and I understand wanting to have fun, but St. Patrick's Day is a meaningful, important day for people of Irish decent. Seeing a bunch of college kids use it as an excuse to wear big stupid hats, talk in phony accents, and start drinking at 11am is quite annoying.

Ireland has a long, often tragic history, and St. Patrick's Day is meant to commemorate that. Yet so many people co-opt this past, pretend that they were part of it, and then drink themselves stupid. How did it get this way?

Not to mention that this day also reminds me of my increasing disconnection with my roots. My Mom's parents died over a decade ago, and my Mom doesn't like to talk about them (her Dad was an alcoholic, and her Mom's death was very hard on her - she died suddenly while my Mom was on vacation, so she never got a chance to say goodbye). I feel guilty for not appreciating my roots when I was younger and would have had a better chance to explore them.

Anyway, I just wanted to get some thoughts out, and see if anyone else felt similarly.

[AAAAA]

I see your point digdug. I am also of Irish decent and our family gatherings all included great quantities of alcohol. I come from a long line of professional drinkers. I am not saying all Irish people are this way of course, but I think that's how this tradition started. If there's one thing you can say about us it is that we sure know how to throw a party!

But think about it for just a minute, when the Irish came to America they were poor, uneducated and unskilled but also fearless and hardworking. They were concidered the lowest of the low. Over the years our celebration of St. Patrick's day has been embraced by the mainstream.

People are offended by stereotypes, but the majority of my family are still police officers, have a very strong sense of family and devout Catholics. Most are heavy drinkers although thankfully some are recovering. And when we have a family reunion, there will be at least one physcial fight. Although God protect an outsider that attempts to step in because the fight between the family will end as quickly as it started and the outsider will bear the brunt. But I absolutely guarantee if you went to Ireland and found family there, no matter how distant they would embrace you with open arms as if they've known you their whole life.

When I was 15 and working at a resort a distant cousin started waitressing there. The owner's daughter asked how we were related and to be perfectly honest until that point neither of us had ever pondered our connection. We knew we were cousins and that was good enough for us. A quick calculation brought us to my maternal great-grandfather and her maternal grandmother were brother and sister. The owner's daughter replied "well then you're not really related then are you?" We both looked at her as if she was nuts. It was amazing to us that other people do not recognize these type of connections as being relatives.

[sky dancer]

St Pat's Day reminds me of everything that went wrong in my family--from the Catholic Church to the alcoholism and violence that went along with it. My mothers mother was Irish, had my mother out of wedlock in America and went back to Ireland. I think if she hadn't have done that she would have ended up in a Magdalene Home in Ireland.

My mother was abandoned by her mother, she in turn abandoned my sister and me, then she had another daughter who she raised. That half-sister had two out of wedlock children that she put up for adoption.

My paternal grandparents were both Irish alcoholics, my dad and his twin sister became alcoholics. There was a lot of mental illness in our family and the RCC was complicit in making matters worse instead of better.

I'm Irish descent. I have mixed, but mostly negative feelings about being Irish.

[digdug]

Interesting answers. 5A, I take your point about mellowing out a bit and appreciating the fact that people have embraced our holiday (I don't think you said that directly, but I gathered that's what you were trying to get at). There is the alcoholism issue, though...as sky_dancer reflects, this can be very hard on people who have had it tear their families apart, and maybe that's part of what's bothering me...it's like people think they are "imitating" Irish behaviour by getting stoned drunk, and it's hard not to take that a bit personally.

Luckily the alcoholism largely eluded my Mom's generation of our family, though her brother came close. Lots of Catholics on that side of the family as well. No real fisticuffs at our get-togethers, though we have some real heavyweights.

I've always wondered if there was a link between mental illness and heavily Catholic cultures, given the nature of Catholicism, with its rituals, heavy emphasis on guilt, etc. I'm part Italian as well, and we have mental illness on both the Irish and Italian sides of the family.

[AAAAA]

Yes, that was exactly what I was saying, in spite of themselves they embraced our holiday. Can you think of another holiday that came from a foreign culture that the whole country celebrates? I cannot.

My immediate family left the Catholic church for the Lutheran church so I do not believe that the rituals involved holds a connection for mental illness.

As I said, my family has its faults and a great deal of them struggle with alcohol, but I have to say family comes first. We stick together no matter what.

I understand sky dancer's point as well. My father was a violent drunk as are several of my uncles on my mother's side. My father did get help and defeated the demon alcohol and because of that he will always be my hero. I choose not to tempt fate and avoid it. My brother unfortunately drinks entirely too much.

I think every culture has it's good points and bad.