Do Narcissists know that they hurt you?

Have just read the article in the link you posted. Quite an eye opener really! I suppose you try to be optimistic and expect them to change or at least want to try and change. I have to get my head around this as being a chronic illness! Every time things are good between us I get my hopes up thinking that this time he as changed and he will stay this way - it is a bit like the calm before the storm and every time I get the storm.

Sorry to hear about your loss I was in the midst of divorce, when my mom passed on. My then stbxh, was horrible to me, during that time period. How were you treated, over the loss of your mom, by your h? Was he as supportive as he should have been?

Hoping for change, is truly 'wishful thinking.' Even if he has a 'chronic illness', that's no excuse for the abusive behavior towards you. I have been, where you are, in many ways, trying to make rhyme or reason for being vilified, ridiculed, called names, accused of imaginary affairs, and the list goes on. It wasn't all physical abuse, to begin with, and even at that, it was always more emotional abuse than anything else. Trying to take 'emotional abuse' to a courthouse, is like beating your head against a brick wall.

Just remember, if you do choose to leave; don't mention it, ahead of time. Don't talk about wanting a divorce, don't talk about separation. It will only fuel their inner desire to tighten the controls and abuse. Regardless, if he has a personality disorder or not, it's no excuse to treat you less than what you deserve.

Are you familiar, with the 'Cycle of Abuse'?

He can change, its all up to him, the only person he will change for is him, but the point of a relationship should never be to change somebody. That is like spending years looking for a great painting to hang on your wall, you get it home and start finger painting over it. What are you left with? Something that probably isn't as good as what you had originally.

I can relate though, I used to tell my partner "I'm so glad you are back to the old you! I missed you" (even though we never were separated). Personally I think you should go to therapy and work on your self-esteem. Somebody with a healthy ego, healthy self-esteem does not put up with this kind of treatment. I am equally as guilty of this, being a person who lacks of stable sense of self, I have a really hard time putting my foot down. Because I was always punished for my anger, since I was never taught how to express it in a healthy way, growing up in an abusive home.

I do agree that even if his disorder is chronic and not initially his fault I should not have to be the subject of his bad behaviour and abuse. I am familiar with the' cycle of abuse' - which is exactly what has been happening - each time I hope it is the last and then seemingly triggered for no reason the abusive phase begins again. I feel as if I am trapped at the moment not literally - but in my head and then I start thinking I am imagining things even when he is 'raging' and abusing - I look to myself for reasons why - what did I do - what did I say - Is this really my fault in some way? Just can't seem to break away - Still feel as if I love him! Thank you so much for your help and so sorry to go on so much!

I agree only he can want and choose therapy. I don't want to change all of him - it is just the way he 'rages' name calls 'belittles' and emotionally and sometimes physically abuses. This doesn't happen all the time. We can go for long periods without this behaviour but, if something triggers him and it can be anything he just loses it! He is telling me it is because he feels stressed and the stress makes him behave that way?!

Probably shouldn't have but was tempted - to browse the forum for people with NPD - it was an eye opener and I was fortunate to receive a reply to a post! well he told me I was lucky he didn't usually post to non's! Having heard things from the horse's mouth it confirms even more that my partner if not NPD has narc traits and ways of thinking. The worst thing to hear was that I was better off not looking inside his mind - cos I might not like what I find. He also said they get bored and as soon as he does he will feel 'no remorse' but just leave me and move on! - That really got to me as I already feel insecure. He also said that by putting up with his 'rages' and bad behaviour I was feeding his 'N' supply. Such a lot to digest! He did say they weren't bad people just people with problems and shattered lives! And finally he said 'they had to be perfect'!!

Its just an excuse IMO. I feel stressed all the time, I have intrusive thoughts of violent behavior when I'm stressed, I don't act on them. I choose not to act on them. I could act on them, but I would be a murderer if I did. Same thing with him, when he feels stressed, he chooses to treat you that way, its not like he can blame it on being possessed by demons.

One thing I noticed at least with my ex, as soon as she realized I was getting ready to dump her, she would change her phone number. I know why she did this now (after getting inside her head after the breakup) she was getting back in touch with her ex boyfriends and talking with other men in attempt to secure more narcissist supply before the show with me was over. One thing for all of narcissists self-proclaimed grandiosity, they are awful needy people. They are "A legend in their own mind" and hardly have anything grand to support their purported high achievements. Mine was a "somatic" narcissist type, it was all about her body, she always had to be the most beautiful, sexiest, best in bed (you get the picture) and was always saying she was going to be a model or an actor.
I know what you mean! When I first started researching I was shocked, I had already got inside of her head so it just confirmed what I already knew. I also found out that I was not alone, that many people have suffered from being partners with a narcissist. They are right its better to not go looking inside of his mind! When I opened my ex's mind up by saying things I was told to say to her by my former therapist I was severely hurt. The things she said were just terrible, made me feel lower than low, if you do look inside his head, you will probably feel even more insecure. I think whoever it was that responded to you was correct in the sense you are feeding his Narcissist supply. Otherwise he would've broke up with you a long time ago. They do get bored, they love to create chaos in our lives, it keeps them entertained. They constantly knock you off your center, if you didn't have a mental disorder before you got with a narcissist, you probably will after the relationship ends. They are good at sucking the serotonin out of our brains, having us lose our sense of self, sometimes victim will adapt some NPD traits this is called in psycho-babble a "shared psychosis"

Thank you for your replies. The problem with me is that I want to know even if it hurts! Like you mine is very aware of 'his body' and - always attains for perfection. But, he is quite a loner and when I went on the' forbidden site' I realised many of them are - except in certain situations or to obtain 'N' supply. That was what made me question that he liked to be alone and his own company - not all the time but more than I would have imagined.
I was also surprised that they will do or say something to hurt you and then take pleasure in fixing you and your emotions. I think I can so relate to that as sometimes he just makes a 'drama' insulting and blaming me and I guess watching as I become upset or try to rationalise and the more I do so the worse he gets. In his own time he changes the whole dynamics and mood - he rarely apologizes but as said previously 'he says I am sorry for how I am'!

Don't waste any more time on this person, you don't know what your missing, like a real healthy relationship with someone who isn't abusive, one day your eyes will be open and 10 years have gone by, and you'll regret not having left or tried to leave.

You are probably right but I just can't help thinking these people are like you and I with problems. I agree the nature of the problem is entwined into their personality and therefore it is more difficult - but I see those windows and I know he is not bad not intentionally any way. For the moment I can't bring myself to leave - I don't give up easily - he will probably discard me first! At the moment I just want to know as much as possible - I know it probably wont change anything - and tomorrow is another day but thanks so much for your reply and I am sure you are right!

You say NPD's can feel if it is needed? and if they benefit from it - what do you mean by that - if they can take 'N' supply from it? or is it genuine empathy?

I having difficulty in understanding whether these people are bad or just sick. There is so much conflicting advice and even from the horse's mouth I am told they are sick but on the other hand to stay away? I love my partner - but I am scared - scared he is going to hurt me and leave me when he is tired of me - when he just feels like it. Is there any chance I could be wrong - maybe he just has traits. All this is causing a lot of stress in me at the moment. Wishing I could have more clarity!

Sorry to hear you are having such a hard time. They are sick, and bad. With personality disorders, the bad behavior happens on an unconscious level, that's what makes it pathological. At the same time, once the patient receives psycho education, we can understand what we are doing is wrong. But have a hard time controlling it, even with this conscious awareness. For example yesterday I was shouting until I lost my voice, I know it was my BPD and I was upset because I felt attacked. Even though none of the content was hurtful, the tone of voice, body language, facial expression all played into my over-reaction. I knew on a conscious level that my anger was irrational, but I couldn't help but expressing it in such an unhealthy manner.

I wish you the best of luck, making whatever decision you are going to make, start searching videos on YouTube type in the search bar "how to leave a narcissist" and watch some of the related videos. Obviously its up to you, but it has been stated many times on here before, the sooner the better. Or you could pull the classic "wait until he does one more thing" then pull the plug.

Thank you again for your care and support. I know I have a lot of thinking to do - but I think at this moment - it will be when he finally discards me! I just can't see myself leaving for good - even after one of his 'rages'. How can I just stop loving him - that is the biggest problem I have - and sometimes I don't even know why - it is hard to explain love and why we love someone - at least I find it so! Thanks again for being there

Last night was a bit of a revelation - he said 'he had had enough' of how he was of the fact that he couldn't give me what I needed in terms of security etc. He gave me a slight glimpse into his thinking which is very black and white - but last night I sensed he was 'low' Do NPD's get low - am I not enough for him for supply that is? He says he loves me and wants to be with me - and yet something is troubling him!

No problem, I understand completely! I still have feelings for my ex abuser, as much as she hurt me, I hope she's doing well. She had good features to, it wasn't all bad, but the bad times made me feel like I was living on the edge because she was so unpredictable and spontaneous. She would always freak out when I just started to feel comfortable with her again.
Hmm that sounds familiar to me, I think I heard my ex say that about 1,000 times. That's good he's opening up to you, yes the thinking of a narcissist (and a borderline ) tends to be very black and white, all or nothing, love me or hate me. Narcissists do have highs and lows just like everybody else, according to Sam Vaknin, (link inside). Maybe he is starting to realize that you are on to him. If he wants to change, therapy can help, not exactly a cure, but will make him easier to deal with. Treatment for Narcissistic Personality Disorder Schema focused therapy seems to have some evidence backing it for the treatment of NPD. I wish you two the best of luck.

(((((( Thorn Bird )))))))

I'm sorry you are struggling with the issue of a narcissistic mate. I too, was married to one who also is an alcoholic. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt, you will NEVER win with this man. No matter what you do or say, they will find some way to put you down, convince you that you are the problem and walking on those eggshells will absolutely get you nowhere fast.

I've done a bit of research on this and have some links for you to read if you are interested. These links tell so much more than I could tell you.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...ing-narcissist

The Three Phases of A Narcissistic Relationship Cycle: Over-Evaluation, Devaluation, Discard - Esteemology

Surviving a Narcissist - The Path Forward | Lisa E. Scott

Please know that you are not alone in this kind of relationship. It happens often and this can truly be a learning experience for you.

You deserve more. Period. No if's and's or but's about it, you deserve more! Please take care of yourself. He will not do it, he cannot do it, YOU have to take care of YOU!

Thank you so much and for the links - maybe you are right - I have been asking a few questions lately - not that I never have in the past but I think they may have 'hit a nerve'.! Thank you so much again for the links I will check them

Thank you so much for your advice and kind words and for the links which I will check out. It means so much - everyone is so kind Thank you

It blew up again last night - this seemed to have been as a result of my questioning! He basically rejected me sexually - which he rarely if ever has! I just felt a little rejected and sat away from him - to be fair he did try and reach out for my hand - but I just felt bad and was trying to figure out what was going on - like I said he has seemed troubled. So, me being me I just asked and that for him was the last straw he just started his 'raging' and putting me down - calling me names etc. I remained calm and it eventually blew over - I think! I wish I knew for sure if he is a Narc -everything points in that direction but he is not overt and likes to be alone. However the extrovert side of him comes to play in social interactions. He seems self-absorbed and is almost obsessive about taking all his vitamins and things to keep him stress free. My best description of him is that he is like two different people! Thanks again for all your help and links which I have been reading. Sometimes I feel like my head is going to explode!

He seems like two different people because around other people he is merely putting on his mask. This mask serves him well so he can interact with the rest of society and remain functional. Some of us have many masks that we put on depending on the circumstances, I think the masks are normal for somebody who lacks a sense of self. The mask is what they want people to believe they are, its an idealized version of themselves, behind closed doors the true self comes out. I think now is a perfect time to leave, get the help you need. Find a counselor in that link I posted to you in your thread in the PTSD subforum. They will help you find your way out of this mess.

Thank you I have to do something - at least if I can talk to someone - apart from my best friend who I confide in I have no one I can tell. She is supportive but I don't think really gets it - not totally anyway and in fact usually phones me for relationship advice!!! I know I should leave for my own health but, am still digging my heels in - I am too stubborn but I think it would be good to talk to someone and thanks again for all your help and good advice

I'm glad you are taking some time to read through the links that have been offered to you. At this point though, I wonder if it even matters if your bf is a narcissist or not. The fact of the matter is that he abuses you, if not physically at this time, at least emotionally and verbally.

I get the impression from you that you are questioning yourself as to if you feel you have done all you can to make the relationship work in a positive manner. If you are, I completely understand this thinking. I was always questioning myself through my relationship with my ex. The last time we got back together, I did so with what I call the "bottom line" thinking. In other words, I promised myself that when things didn't work out again, it would be the end of our marriage. I knew in my heart and mind that he would not change and he would dig his hole as he always did.

It wasn't long before the hole was dug. He assaulted me in front of our daughters for the last time. I had to get the girls out of the house so I yelled to them to go next door and call the police. They did that and the ex was arrested for assault against me. It was a horrible time for myself and the kids. There was also an order of protection given to me by the courts. At that point, I couldn't trust him to not go off the deep end or to try to take the girls and run. I had to protect myself and the girls as best I could.

I think we all have to come to that "bottom line" when dealing with relationships. But, I also want you to know that no matter what you do, you will not be able to get the relationship to a point where you are no longer abused by this man. Short of loosing who you are, he does not care and will do anything to keep you holding out in hopes you can do something to make the situation change. He is in control right now and has taken your control away from you. I can tell you by my experience that this is a rotten place to be.

Remember the definition of "crazy"? It's when we keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. It made me feel crazy each time I tried to make the relationship work. It made me question myself, my motives, my abilities and my imperfections. Again, what a horrible place to be in a relationship! In reality, I should have been questioning his motives, his abilities or lack there of and his imperfections so that I could make a better choice for myself and my girls.

Again, the bottom line is that you will never, ever, ever, ever, be able to change him and your relationship. Period. No matter how much you love him, care for him, bend over backwards for him, it will not happen. He will expect more and more and more and nothing will ever be good enough and it will always be your fault. The question now becomes, are you willing to loose yourself completely in this relationship and take all the abuse he will dish out to you, over and over again? That is the bottom line question!

Don't want to scare you at all, but if that's what it takes to awaken you, here it is. When I was young, I married one! It was a true nightmare. The abuse only gets worse. When I finally got away, I had him arrested for the very first time, because for the first time, he put a gun to my head. But our kids were bigger, and put up a fight, so I got away without getting shot. (We had five kids together). It was very hard but I finally went back to school, and I'm so much more happy for it. In addition, with all the girls/ladies being killed by their boyfriends and husbands, this is the best time to GET OUT! Do it now!

Thank you so much again and it sounds like you have been through so much. I think my 'handicap' is that I am not totally sure that my partner has NPD he is undiagnosed. I am certain he is aware something is not right with him but is not able or doesn't want to communicate that with me. So, there are times when I think I have just come to my own conclusions - and I may be wrong. All I know is that the pattern of 'the cycle of abuse' is strong and over the last couple of years has heightened. He does 'rage' particularly if I disagree or am critical over something - he does always blame and belittle me and name call too and he can be cruel and unkind and emotionally abusive. But, then he returns to a loving, attentive man. I don't know what to think anymore and I don't know how to leave he consumes my mind and my life! Anyway I just wanted to thank you for your continued care and support - it means so much