[endoftheline]

Haven't been able to get on line much. I am so enjoying my get away to the south and away from my daughter. Gaining lots of emotional strength which I dearly needed. I've had short contact with her by email but from the little tidbits I can see nothing has changed. She rents from us, her step-father owns the building, and has already missed paying rent. Husband says the building will be sold when we get back home and she can live on the streets for all he cares and she will not be allowed in our home. She has a 5 year old daughter, apple of my eye, but she can live with her father if need be so I have to let that part not keep me from sticking to my guns. I sent her an email, letting her know what the forthcoming plans are and, of course, get the snippy remark.

All we care about is money, she's having health issues and might need an operation (but all we want is money) then "you'll get your money when you get it, now I have to save two months rent and security deposit so it might be awhile". Of course she gave the whole spiel about how no one cares if she lives or dies, yada, yada,yada.

What's bugging me now is - even though I wrote back that I did care, don't want anything bad to happen to her - truth is I've been through so much I really don't care. Can a parent be that cold-hearted? Can we really need peace of mind so bad that we no longer even give a hoot?

Reading on the site, there are so, so many. I'm 65 and we never had anything like this. When I started school we were graded, from kindergarten through 6th, on our social behavior. Our parents from the getgo knew some were having a hard time and it was dealt with at age 5, 6, 7, etc. We learned to sit, walk, stand correctly. We learned we acted different, prouder, when we were dressed nicely not acting like slobs in sweatpants, shuffling our feet. We learned respect for ourselves and others right from the first day of school.

I'm just curious when it got to be so many.

[gayleggg]

I'm sorry things are not good between you and your daughter. And yes I believe we can be pushed to the point of not caring anymore. Especially, if we are depressed oursleves and can only handle so much. It does sound like it's time for tough love. It's a shame there is a child involved in all this.

I'm 61, so I was raised the same way you were. I remember those days. And I look at my step-daughter who is basically disfunctional and undependable. She has about run everyone out of her life. Family can only take so much, even from loved ones.

Best wishes to you. Enjoy the rest of your time in the south.

hmm.

I'm not sure how to respond to this.
I may be of the same age as the OPs daughter [I'm thirtyone] but I actually agree that most people are incredibly disrespectful, selfish, rude, lacking any kind of responsiblity either socially or personally and generally just have no sense of personal agency, often because they choose not to seek it.

These are my peers, and a lot of them just completely disgust me.

I mean, I am actually disagnosed with a mental illness myself, and I have various physical health problems, moderate to severe, which affect my ability to function greatly.

But that doesn't mean I think my obligations that i have taken on are everyone else's responsiblity- in a way. It's hard to discuss from my point of view. I'm on SSDI, but I also worked from sixteen until 19 part time [in the middle doing experiential education and community service for a time] and then fulltime or more for a few years after.

Now I can't work, and I do get SSDI, but I feel that making the efforts to get assistance is a way of taking responsibility [though I understand not everyone is approved]. In the middle time when I couldn't, I didn't do stuff like take advantage of the people giving me a break.

It sounds like your daughter just has a sense of entitlement and lack of responsiblity- and I think there is a difference between experiencing symptoms of mental illness/physical illness and the difficulties that come along with them versus just having a poor attitude or being irresponsible.

The two situations don't go hand in hand necessarily, but I think a lot of my peers tend to feel entitled, take a narrow view, are disrespectful, don't hold doors, don't say please and thank you, don't clean up after themselves, talk in a dark theatre, scream on their cell phone in public.. the list goes on.

Maybe I rub people the wrong way but I always try to be gracious and say please and thank you.

I don't know when it became passe to be polite and I share that frustration, though a lot of my peers don't understand it [my close friends do].

And, to the OP- as a daughter with mental illness who has a mother who had to deal with that difficult position- I think that as long as your granddaughter is safe [and there are many ways to insure that and not financially support your daughter], you are doing the right thing.

There is a line, and I agree it should be drawn. I think loved ones can only be expected to suffer so much abuse, no matter what a person is afflicted with, before they can no longer hold out.

Drawing a line and not budging is the way to go, perhaps providing some resources would be helpful- then you are offering support in a way she can do things for herself and she can seek some way to find help, but you are not doing these things FOR HER.

It is what I would do, for whatever that is worth. [maybe about two cents? ]

[ImNotHere]

There have always been disrespectful, rude, selfish people, this is nothing new. I have a different take on this from the opposite side. I see people complain about the new generation a lot, about people these days, but my opinion? Look at who raised them, there has to be some responsibility there.

I am not saying she is right by any means but this isn't a new thing, a new generation thing. There are plenty of respectful good people and I don't like to be clustered into this ball of a disrespectful bad generation because it simply is not true. There have always been people like this. The generation before was not better than this generation, they may have been bad in different ways.

I look at things from all angles.

Originally Posted by ImNotHere

There have always been disrespectful, rude, selfish people, this is nothing new.

I'm sure there have.
But, I know when I was little I didn't yell and scream and pitch a fit like it was no big deal in a public place at my mother. I just didn't. It just didn't happen. As a cashier, I saw it to many times to count, though.

There are plenty of respectful good people and I don't like to be clustered into this ball of a disrespectful bad generation because it simply is not true. There have always been people like this.
The generation before was not better than this generation, they may have been bad in different ways.

I look at things from all angles.

I don't know who here used the word "better" to describe any generation. I certainly didn't. For my end, what I have actually written thus far has not actually excluded any other positives or negatives of any given generation. It focuses on the concerns that were originally presented by the OP.

What I have expressed has been my experience with my peers as a whole, however. As I indicated, my close friends get it, which means there are individuals who do not behave as I indicated.

Also, I am one of the people who often gets lumped into the whole "disrespectful generation" bit. But I can't say there is no merit to it at all.

I think saying "look at who raised them" is far too simplistic a view, to be honest. How one is raised is certainly a factor in behavior, but social experience, exposure, expectations all have a role. The children you are exposed to when you are a child. The pressure you are exposed to as you become an adult- the entire time, the changes in the sociopolicitical landscape that surrounds you, and those changes can have a drastic effect on school and how they are run.

I think it is easy to have this turn into a "X's fault" debate, or to take personally something that is obviously not meant for a person who responds to something they find offensive with such tact, ImNotHere.

If these things discussed do not apply to you, then they don't. But that may possibly indicate you are in the minority, not that there is an overall skewed perspective. [possibly. we all have our own life experiences]

But simply because you do not act in the way described, which I dont actually doubt, it doesn't mean it isn't a problem or there isn't some kernel of truth to the idea that those in the [what the heck generation? now late twenties early thirties] age range have been losing ground when it comes to social graces.

I get embarrassed to be grouped with my peers often because it is assumed that because of my age I am many of the things I describe.

Also, geography can have a lot to do with it- in different parts of the world different things are a "norm" at different ages. It could also be that in my little corner of the world I don't share a perspective with a lot of my peers on how to interact with other people in general, and that falls in line with the OPs concerns.

[ImNotHere]

Originally Posted by JosieTheGirl

I'm sure there have.
But, I know when I was little I didn't yell and scream and pitch a fit like it was no big deal in a public place at my mother. I just didn't. It just didn't happen. As a cashier, I saw it to many times to count, though.

--This has happened in every generation it is not new, kids always throw tantrums, I was a cashier too, and you may not have done it but several people did in that generation.


I don't know who here used the word "better" to describe any generation. I certainly didn't. For my end, what I have actually written thus far has not actually excluded any other positives or negatives of any given generation. It focuses on the concerns that were originally presented by the OP.

What I have expressed has been my experience with my peers as a whole, however. As I indicated, my close friends get it, which means there are individuals who do not behave as I indicated.

Also, I am one of the people who often gets lumped into the whole "disrespectful generation" bit. But I can't say there is no merit to it at all.

--I can

I think saying "look at who raised them" is far too simplistic a view, to be honest. How one is raised is certainly a factor in behavior, but social experience, exposure, expectations all have a role. The children you are exposed to when you are a child. The pressure you are exposed to as you become an adult- the entire time, the changes in the sociopolicitical landscape that surrounds you, and those changes can have a drastic effect on school and how they are run.

-- I really think that parents need to take more responsibility when complaining about the current generation being so bad (when they aren't), but none do. Truth is things are not any worse now than they were then there is just more attention given to this, through media, internet ect.

I think it is easy to have this turn into a "X's fault" debate, or to take personally something that is obviously not meant for a person who responds to something they find offensive with such tact, ImNotHere.

If these things discussed do not apply to you, then they don't. But that may possibly indicate you are in the minority, not that there is an overall skewed perspective. [possibly. we all have our own life experiences]

But simply because you do not act in the way described, which I dont actually doubt, it doesn't mean it isn't a problem or there isn't some kernel of truth to the idea that those in the [what the heck generation? now late twenties early thirties] age range have been losing ground when it comes to social graces.

-I do not believe there is any truth to it. Look at countries like Sweden and Switzerland and how their children are raised, they have high test scores, less crime etc. I think the U.S. should follow suit with them and then maybe people will get on the right track.

I get embarrassed to be grouped with my peers often because it is assumed that because of my age I am many of the things I describe.

-That seems close minded, to be embarrassed of people who are not any worse than the previous generation

Also, geography can have a lot to do with it- in different parts of the world different things are a "norm" at different ages. It could also be that in my little corner of the world I don't share a perspective with a lot of my peers on how to interact with other people in general, and that falls in line with the OPs concerns.

- I am just sick and tired of people saying that people my age are so disrespectful and so on when it isn't true. People in the past generation have done some terrible things and often made bad parenting decisions that are now known. I think kids are better off these days. I think it is bs to say that kids back in the day were more respectful and so on when the truth is there were a lot of bad kids then who grew up to be bad people/bad parents and raised the current generation (which i do not think is all bad, infact since parenting has changed I think things are better)

[ImNotHere]

I don't like one generation saying they were more respectful or better, that is simply untrue. That is such a close minded view on the world.

Originally Posted by JosieTheGirl

I'm sure there have.
But, I know when I was little I didn't yell and scream and pitch a fit like it was no big deal in a public place at my mother. I just didn't. It just didn't happen. As a cashier, I saw it to many times to count, though.

--This has happened in every generation it is not new, kids always throw tantrums, I was a cashier too, and you may not have done it but several people did in that generation.


I don't know who here used the word "better" to describe any generation. I certainly didn't. For my end, what I have actually written thus far has not actually excluded any other positives or negatives of any given generation. It focuses on the concerns that were originally presented by the OP.

What I have expressed has been my experience with my peers as a whole, however. As I indicated, my close friends get it, which means there are individuals who do not behave as I indicated.

Also, I am one of the people who often gets lumped into the whole "disrespectful generation" bit. But I can't say there is no merit to it at all.

--I can


I think saying "look at who raised them" is far too simplistic a view, to be honest. How one is raised is certainly a factor in behavior, but social experience, exposure, expectations all have a role. The children you are exposed to when you are a child. The pressure you are exposed to as you become an adult- the entire time, the changes in the sociopolicitical landscape that surrounds you, and those changes can have a drastic effect on school and how they are run.

-- I really think that parents need to take more responsibility when complaining about the current generation being so bad (when they aren't), but none do. Truth is things are not any worse now than they were then there is just more attention given to this, through media, internet ect.

I think it is easy to have this turn into a "X's fault" debate, or to take personally something that is obviously not meant for a person who responds to something they find offensive with such tact, ImNotHere.

If these things discussed do not apply to you, then they don't. But that may possibly indicate you are in the minority, not that there is an overall skewed perspective. [possibly. we all have our own life experiences]

But simply because you do not act in the way described, which I dont actually doubt, it doesn't mean it isn't a problem or there isn't some kernel of truth to the idea that those in the [what the heck generation? now late twenties early thirties] age range have been losing ground when it comes to social graces.

-I do not believe there is any truth to it. Look at countries like Sweden and Switzerland and how their children are raised, they have high test scores, less crime etc. I think the U.S. should follow suit with them and then maybe people will get on the right track.

I get embarrassed to be grouped with my peers often because it is assumed that because of my age I am many of the things I describe.

-That seems close minded, to be embarrassed of people who are not any worse than the previous generation

Also, geography can have a lot to do with it- in different parts of the world different things are a "norm" at different ages. It could also be that in my little corner of the world I don't share a perspective with a lot of my peers on how to interact with other people in general, and that falls in line with the OPs concerns.

Originally Posted by ImNotHere

- I am just sick and tired of people saying that people my age are so disrespectful and so on when it isn't true. People in the past generation have done some terrible things and often made bad parenting decisions that are now known. I think kids are better off these days. I think it is bs to say that kids back in the day were more respectful and so on when the truth is there were a lot of bad kids then who grew up to be bad people/bad parents and raised the current generation (which i do not think is all bad, infact since parenting has changed I think things are better)

Originally Posted by ImNotHere

I don't like one generation saying they were more respectful or better, that is simply untrue. That is such a close minded view on the world.

What may be more close minded is responding to a person who is attempting to actually view various sides and possibilities of a situation, and then completely disregarding their experience and input [and any possible suggestions they have regarding different lived experiences and POV].

I'm not saying you are wrong and I offered several reasons why we might view things differently.

I'm not sure who has demonstrated what at this point, but this has been enlightening.

[ImNotHere]

I am not close minded. I have already viewed both sides of this and completely disagree that this generation is so disrespectful compared to others. You may have different lived experiences but that doesn't mean it is ok for someone to say that back in the day everything was better when it was not and that is not true.

It is crazy for me to sit here and see people say this when if they actually took the time to do research, review several things, then they would see where i am coming from.

[DarkFairy4]

I think that you both bring up good points. I don't really think it is fair to judge anyone though, especially when the world is constantly changing. Were people different before? Maybe. That doesn't make people now bad or worse.

[roads]

You have a lot of company, endoftheline, with parents whose adult children display no adult responsibility. This has so many causes--drugs, mental illness, permissive upbringing/no boundaries, social disintegration, family breakdown ... combinations of all these.

Maybe at some point the parents could have intervened--but most of the time they couldn't have done it on their own. I think you are so fortunate that your granddaughter has a responsible father who has apparently lived up to his responsibilities.

I don't know what the basis is for your daughter's messed up life that causes you you essentially disown her, but you asked, "Can a parent be that cold-hearted? Can we really need peace of mind so bad that we no longer even give a hoot?"

I don't think you're being cold hearted. Your daughter has, over the years, re-trained you and she is the one you has chosen to distance herself from you. She is not a child now, she may have been born with the inability to establish relationships. Who knows? But she never allowed you in. Nothing you did or do is going to magically transform this person into a daughter--she lacks the material.

You've finally faced faceted without ten years of therapy. You've sensed intuitively that it's a losing battle, and wisely let go of what you never had. Now you have time and emotional room for each other. In ate wisdom, I'm so happy for you.

Nothing is your fault. I wish you the best & hope you enjoy that grandchild bunches. Please spend time with us, your story is valuable.

Roads

[endoftheline]

Originally Posted by ImNotHere

There have always been disrespectful, rude, selfish people, this is nothing new. I have a different take on this from the opposite side. I see people complain about the new generation a lot, about people these days, but my opinion? Look at who raised them, there has to be some responsibility there.

I am not saying she is right by any means but this isn't a new thing, a new generation thing. There are plenty of respectful good people and I don't like to be clustered into this ball of a disrespectful bad generation because it simply is not true. There have always been people like this. The generation before was not better than this generation, they may have been bad in different ways.

I look at things from all angles.

I apologize that it made it sound as though I was attacking a whole generation. It did sound that way and I know that's not true. I know more kids than not my daughters age that are very respectful, hard-working, adults. Just felt a little help from the social aspect in her life, at the younger age, could have helped.