[acchan]

Hi everyone,

I'm writing to ask about what i can do to my friend who is suffering from BPD and NPD, both diagnosed. I tried to find out more about these illnesses ever since he told me and now i know a lot more about them than I did before.

So my friend I'm talking about has cheated three times during his relationship for the last several years I've know him.
He has alcohol issues, although he wouldn't admit, as well as drug abuse issues.
I don't cheat and I don't do drugs nor alcohol, I'm not even a "social drinker".
He started with "introductory" or "light" drug at first, but now he's been doing some "moderate" drugs and I feel so bad that he did because I told him my concerns about our friendship together if he continues to do these kind of behaviour.

He treats his girlfriend okay to her face, but when he's with me he complains how much of a dummy she is, that she doesn't understand him, and looks forward to his next girlfriend who can finally make him happy. The girl is so nice to my friend, she even plans her future with him while my friend is determined to not to marry her but doesn't tell her so.
I told him many times to stop wasting his girlfriend's time, just tell her straight out that he isn't sure about their future together, so that the girlfriend at least gets to choose whether or not to stick around. But his excuse is that if he does that, she'd leave. He just doesn't understand that he's completely wasting her time.
I don't really see a point in his continuing of this relationship if he just uses her to fill in the gap between now and until he finds the perfect girl. it's just so selfish.

Then he cheated on his girlfriend by kissing some other girl he knows.

I told him that it must be really hard to suffer from such illness and to feel horrible for himself for doing things he wouldn't usually do but he really shouldn't do it again.
He understands my concerns and always blames himself and swears to be a better person by fighting off the urges to do certain things.

But it's back to zero every time. The next day, he would go back to do things that he swore not to do.

When he cheated on his gf for the third time, I got furious because it seems like he doesn't even TRY to get better. He always says that he wants to get better, never cheat, never drink, and never do drugs again EVERY TIME but he always ends up doing the same thing the very next day.

I cancelled my upcoming plan with him because he was mad AT ME for being so judgemental. I told him it's not my intention to be judgemental, but I'm trying to help him by letting him know that his behaviour is totally unacceptable even by his best friend, me.
He just keeps saying that if i'm truly his friend, I should help him by being supportive of him.
I just can't be supportive of his actions anymore and I don't know what to do to tell him that I want to help.

I just think telling him it's okay to do things and regret as long as he regrets isn't helping him with his conditions and that he needs someone to tell him straight up that it's not acceptable. I've tried validating technique, as I have mentioned above, like agreeing with how he may feel and then giving my opinions later but he just DOESN'T UNDERSTAND that me pointing out that him DOING nasty things to other people doesn't necessarily mean that I'm being judgemental and calling HIM a nasty being.

Yes, he does do nasty **** but it doesn't mean that he's a nasty person but when he continues doing things that he does, it's very hard for me to believe that he's a nice person underneath BPD.

Right now he also doesn't get why I'm mad at him when I'm not the person, like his gf, who's actually involved in the situation. I'm telling him that no matter how nice he is to me, it won't refrain me from being uncomfortable at the way he treats others but he simply doesn't seem to get it.

He's just avoiding all conversation with me right now and is saying that he feels cheated because I'm not a friend who he thought I was. He's calling me judgemental and narrow-minded and doesn't understand why he makes the choice that he makes because he's sick. I'm telling him regardless of how hard it is to not to make certain choices, it's not IMPOSSIBLE for him to do so, which he argues back by saying "I'm sick".

What can I get to make the situation better? It's not like I wanna be friend with him anymore because I don't want to associate myself with people who do mean things to others, but I certainly don't want him to continue behaving the way he does because it doesn't benefit anybody, not even himself.

[acchan]

One more question, he's now ignoring all my calls and messages.
Do i let him be and wait until he reaches me, or do I need to do something to get him to listen?

[jelly-bean]

It's too bad your friend is behaving in a way that upsets you but it's because of his mental problems. Is he on medication or in Therapy? There is really nothing you can do. He has to want to get better for himself. Until he understands that he needs some help with it and asks for that help nothing you say is going to do any good. If you don't want to be friends with him any more then I suggest walking away.

The tactic would depend heavily on whether he leans more towards BPD or NPD.

Really though, the most straight forward answer is that there is nothing you can do.

It's cliched and over used but true here, if he sees no problem then there is nothing you can do to change his mind.

[CANDC]

It is not clear if you are an advocate for him or his woman.

It is better to be a good listener and find the common ground with someone than try to fix their lives in the way we see best. You may be right, but your friend feels that as judgment.

Seeing he does not keep communicating with you, may be a sign of how much this means to him and how he does not see benefits in the relationship.

You may have to redefine what this relationship is with the current situation.

Another approach is to use the same microscope on your own life that you use with the person you are trying to help.

[ifst5]

Unfortunately, no matter how concerned you are for him or his relationship - you can't take responsibility for his behaviour. Apart from your friendship, other aspects of his life aren't really your business - which creates a lot of difficulty as of course we want the best for our friends, but at the same time we can't tell them how to live their lives. It just leads to greater distrust and frustration. You don't mention him once asking for advice - which to me would say he isn't really soliciting your opinion, he just desires someone to listen to him;

him - "x y and z has been going on"

you - "how do you feel about that"

him - "x y z"

you - i'm sorry to hear about that, it must be very frustrating, i'll try and support you however i can.

If from there he DOES ask what he should do, explain that it's not really your place to comment but that you think he should do what he feels is going to be the best long term. You can ask him more questions like, what do you want? What do you feel the best course of action would be? - by all means help him reframe the issue, but you're not his agony aunt.

And that's as simple as it needs to be. If the opposite starts happening and he requires more lengthy discussion with you (this is often the case with a PD sufferer, their requirements will alter depending on the changes of those they associate with), you can reiterate that you care for him deeply, but that your business in his life runs along the lines of friendship - you can't become involved in issues that have nothing to do with you as naturally you can't be of any help. Your role is to listen and thereby be supportive.

It's important to remember that a lot of the time, sufferers of personality disorders don't really know what they want - they're so conflicted by an intense array of emotions that it's difficult to start down one road and continue along it. So we require balanced people who can stick fast to their boundaries - and the more you put in place with this friend the easier it will be.

For now, let him alone, once he cools off he'll be able to approach you in a more balanced frame of mind. If he carries on taking no responsibility for his actions, all you can do is continue to listen but not get involved, or decide that this person just isn't someone you're compatible with anymore. I hope for the sake of you both that it isn't the latter.

All the best to you.

[dancinglady]

I totally agree with the others.

[acchan]

First of all, I just realized that the two of the same posts are posted on the board.
Sorry that I accidentally created two of them but I'll be keep checking both of the forums.

He's more leaned towards BPD, he's currently not on any medications or therapy.
I really tried to explain why I'm so straightforward but he just doesn't get why I'm doing so if i really wanted to help him get better.
Reading from all responses and his behaviour right now (avoidance), it's likely that he'll probably hold a grudge against me but I hope he'll realize someday that I actually tried to help him.

[acchan]

Originally Posted by dancinglady

I totally agree with the others.

which part do you agree the most? could you be more specific ?

[acchan]

Originally Posted by CANDC

It is not clear if you are an advocate for him or his woman.

It is better to be a good listener and find the common ground with someone than try to fix their lives in the way we see best. You may be right, but your friend feels that as judgment.

Seeing he does not keep communicating with you, may be a sign of how much this means to him and how he does not see benefits in the relationship.

You may have to redefine what this relationship is with the current situation.

Another approach is to use the same microscope on your own life that you use with the person you are trying to help.

Well of course I'm his friend, but I don't think this is a matter of advocate or not.

I was also saying to him that if his girlfriend has anger issues (as in also mentally sick) and continuously abuses her pet whenever she gets stressed, wouldn't he be uncomfortable with that even though he's not the one getting injured (as in his gf=him, pet= his gf, and him=me) I had to put it this way because he didn't know why i was upset that he cheated.
I also asked wouldn't he make it clear that she shouldn't continue doing so regardless of her illness or not.

But his answer was: Oh so you're putting me in the same line as an animal abuser? why not also call me a rapist and a pedophile and a murderer?

I told him that's not what I was suggesting.
he told me out of all his friends, I'm the only one who is criticizing him (as in yes, his friends think is bad, but they all comfort him at the end) and that i'm a negative influence in his life.

I take his drinking, drug life, and cheating really seriously because my family has a problem with all three, with my mom in rehab, and that's why I get so involved with his bad behaviour. I guess he's as sensitive to criticism as much I am with his behaviour. So regardless of my good intention, I guess I did really hurt him at the end

I hope he also understands my situation as I now do about his since I've been reading these posts. Thanks for letting me know more about BPD. I knew BPD patients have low tolerance for criticism, but i thought he would at least get that his situation is serious enough for me to react in such way.

Hope one day when he gets better he'd may not think what I did was out of a bad intention to bring him down.

[acchan]

Originally Posted by ifst5

Unfortunately, no matter how concerned you are for him or his relationship - you can't take responsibility for his behaviour. Apart from your friendship, other aspects of his life aren't really your business - which creates a lot of difficulty as of course we want the best for our friends, but at the same time we can't tell them how to live their lives. It just leads to greater distrust and frustration. You don't mention him once asking for advice - which to me would say he isn't really soliciting your opinion, he just desires someone to listen to him;

him - "x y and z has been going on"

you - "how do you feel about that"

him - "x y z"

you - i'm sorry to hear about that, it must be very frustrating, i'll try and support you however i can.

If from there he DOES ask what he should do, explain that it's not really your place to comment but that you think he should do what he feels is going to be the best long term. You can ask him more questions like, what do you want? What do you feel the best course of action would be? - by all means help him reframe the issue, but you're not his agony aunt.

And that's as simple as it needs to be. If the opposite starts happening and he requires more lengthy discussion with you (this is often the case with a PD sufferer, their requirements will alter depending on the changes of those they associate with), you can reiterate that you care for him deeply, but that your business in his life runs along the lines of friendship - you can't become involved in issues that have nothing to do with you as naturally you can't be of any help. Your role is to listen and thereby be supportive.

It's important to remember that a lot of the time, sufferers of personality disorders don't really know what they want - they're so conflicted by an intense array of emotions that it's difficult to start down one road and continue along it. So we require balanced people who can stick fast to their boundaries - and the more you put in place with this friend the easier it will be.

For now, let him alone, once he cools off he'll be able to approach you in a more balanced frame of mind. If he carries on taking no responsibility for his actions, all you can do is continue to listen but not get involved, or decide that this person just isn't someone you're compatible with anymore. I hope for the sake of you both that it isn't the latter.

All the best to you.

Yes I get what he's saying by reading your post, it helps a lot thanks!

As I was saying on my reply on the upper thread, my family has a substance abuse problem, so growing up in that kind of environment has put me really off from drinking and using drugs. Since i was so close to my friend, I really felt like I was losing him by his behaviour and that's why I got a too off limits by his standard.

He said that he wants his friends to just listen and criticize nicely, not harshly. He said that I'm the only one who labelled his behaviour as bad and that made him think that he's a horrible person. Which was ironic for me because he has a big fear of abandonment (like BPD patients mostly are) so he gets really really paranoid of his gf's cheating on him. They never did, but he thinks cheating is the most horrible thing that happens in relationship, yet he doesn't think it's as bad when himself does it? He hates any men or women who cheats on their lovers.

I told him i know that it's really hard for him to not to cheat, but his BPD really shouldn't be an excuse for him to continue to behave that way (he's had several flings during all of relationships). I just wanted him to know his behaviour is horrible whether or not he has the illness or not because although it's hard, it's not completely impossible for him to not to.

He shouldn't take any shame in screwing up because recognizing his faults is always a great step towards improvement but he just gets so defensive (although he admits that he was wrong).

I'll listen to you and let him cool off, but i really don't think we're compatible as friends now. I've already told him goodbye and get well, so hopefully one day he'll realize that I genuinely wanted to help him even if he didn't feel like it was a help, like the way I have realized after reading your reply that I was off limits.

Thanks!