[crystalrose]

I have recently been diagnosed with complex post traumatic stress disorder and I am not sure I understand what the difference is between ptsd and c-ptsd. I feel a bit shame for this diagnosis and im not even sure that I agree with it either.
Dont know what to think or do. Labels can be so limiting and harmful.

[Elysium]

Crystalrose....

Believe me when I say that there is NO SHAME in being diagnosed with PTSD. This is something that is NOT your fault in any way, shape, or form. You didn't do anything to deserve this.

I understand when you say that you don't even know if you agree with the diagnosis. Sometimes there can be denial and difficulty with acceptance because this means that you have to accept and validate that bad things happened to you. If you truly don't agree with it, you can always get a 2nd opinion.

The way I understand it, is the difference between PTSD and Complex PTSD is this:

PTSD can occur from one single incident, like a car accident, a natural disaster such as earthquakes, floods, witnessing the death of someone, or losing a loved one.

Complex PTSD occurs when there has been a more long term exposure to trauma, such as repeated sexual, physical, or emotional abuse, repeated viewings of domestic violence, being held captive physically or emotionally, or going through the war.

PTSD-one time occurence
C-PTSD-longer exposure period.

Here is a website that has some really good info on PTSD/C-PTSD: http://www.ncptsd.va.gov/ncmain/ncdocs/fact_shts/fs_complex_ptsd.html

Hope this helps a bit. I am always around if you need to talk. You can PM me or we can chat too, if you would ever like to.

Take care!!

[phoenix7]

its just words - I know it can be scary - but now that you know what it is it can be treated - come here and ask questions or post how you are feeling - we are here to listen - and help if we can - take care

[crystalrose]

thanks for the replies.

[Xtree]

Originally Posted by Elysium3006

Crystalrose....
PTSD-one time occurence
C-PTSD-longer exposure period.

This is what they are. Are the symptoms and effects different too?

Xtree

[Elysium]

Originally Posted by Xtree

This is what they are. Are the symptoms and effects different too?

Xtree

The symptoms and effects are roughly the same clinically, I believe, just magnified. Not to say that anyone with a diagnosis of straight PTSD doesn't or isn't suffering greatly, but with C-PTSD it seems like there is more of an alteration in emotional dysregulation, views of the self, changes in ways one views the perpetrator of the abuse.

The link I left can explain it a lot better than I can...but I tried!!!

[(JD)]

No shame involved. PTSD is caused by a chemical change in the brain ( or changes) at the time of trauma. It isn't anything you can control at the time.

Also, it doesn't necessarily take a perpetrator (abuser) as those who are in natural disasters, for instance, can also develop PTSD. It generally requires fearing for your life, or being in a position where you witnessed loss of life and realized it could have been you, for example.

It's never too late to seek treatment as it does not heal itself. Actually, there is no cure for it at all... however therapy (and sometimes meds) can get you back to a place where PTSD isn't running (or ruining) your entire life.

[deliquesce]

(((crystalrose)))

you will find many people on this board who have been diagnosed with c-ptsd. i myself received the diagnosis in december, and had it confirmed again last week after my pdoc took the case to his peer review session.

it means i get many of the symptoms of ptsd (flashbacks, nightmares, triggers, etc) but also some unique ones which typically occur in long term trauma situations (e.g., changed view of the self, how we see the world and how much control we have in it etc). it's the latter part that i struggle with more.

i disagree with sky, however - i DO think it's possible to recover 100% from c-ptsd. this isn't to deny that our pasts will continue to affect us into the future (like everyone's does!) but just saying that it's posisble to get to a place where our anxiety doesn't cause us significant distress.

[Xtree]

... but also some unique ones which typically occur in long term trauma situations (e.g., changed view of the self, how we see the world and how much control we have in it etc). it's the latter part that i struggle with more.

I read that C-PTSD is relatively new, is that true? Do you think most Ts are familiar with it? I have been diagnosed with PSTD but not C-PTSD. I can definitely see the difference and can certainly understand why I would have C-PTSD. Or maybe we just are not talking about it. Thanks!

Xtree

[deliquesce]

yeah, c-ptsd isn't recognised as a separate disorder in the dsm-iv or the ICD. i think it was first proposed back in 1992. as with most disorders, there's quite a bit of controversy around it (is it same/different to borderline personality, many studies fail to differentiate between those with ptsd and c-ptsd). so i guess a lot comes down to the personal beliefs of your clinician.

in terms of medication, i don't think there would be different treatment approaches. in terms of therapy - then yes, of course there are added issues that would need to be addressed. xtree - if you haven't been given that diagnosis, but still relate to the criteria, then maybe you can just bring up the stuff that is relevant to you to get that addressed?

i found being given the diagnosis helpful, because i like to research stuff and i related to a lot of what i read, but it doesn't really guide my therapy in any meaningful way. maybe makes it easier for my T to know what to look out for, but we deal with the stuff that i bring up, not what's dictated in the diagnostic criteria.

[crystalrose]

I do know that i definatly have the diagnosis. I think that the diagnosis just made me confused and concerned. With the emotional dysregualtion i have that a lot but sometimes i feel that people really dont understand how im feeling or my emotional reactions, and thats probably part of the cptsd too.

crystalrose,

If you haven't already read it, I strongly suggest this book by Judith Herman. This chapter deals with prolonged trauma. She's been pushing for the C-PTSD dx for a long time now.

Trauma and Recovery
By Judith Lewis Herman, M.D.

Even the diagnosis of "post-traumatic stress disorder," as it is presently defined, does not fit accurately enough.

The existing diagnostic criteria for this disorder are derived mainly from survivors of circumscribed traumatic events. They are based on the prototypes of combat, disaster, and rape.

In survivors of prolonged, repeated trauma, the symptom picture is often far more complex. Survivors of prolonged abuse develop characteristic personality changes, including deformations of relatedness and identity.

Survivors of abuse in childhood develop similar problems with relationships and identity; in addition, they are particularly vulnerable to repeated harm, both self-inflicted and at the hands of others.

The current formulation of post-traumatic stress disorder fails to capture either the protean symptomatic manifestations of prolonged, repeated trauma or the profound deformations of personality that occur in captivity.

The syndrome that follows upon prolonged, repeated trauma needs its own name. I propose to call it "complex post-traumatic stress disorder." The responses to trauma are best understood as a spectrum of conditions rather than as a single disorder.

They range from a brief stress reaction that gets better by itself and never qualifies for a diagnosis, to classic or simple post-traumatic stress disorder, to the complex syndrome of prolonged, repeated trauma.

Although the complex traumatic syndrome has never before been outlined systematically, the concept of a spectrum of post-traumatic disorders has been noted, almost in passing, by many experts.

Clinicians who work with survivors of childhood abuse have also seen the need for an expanded diagnostic concept. Lenore Terr distinguishes the effect of a single traumatic blow, which she calls "Type I" trauma, from the effects of prolonged, repeated trauma, which she calls "Type II."

Her description of the Type II syndrome includes denial and psychic numbing, self-hypnosis and dissociation, and alternations between extreme passivity and outbursts of rage.

The psychiatrist Jean Goodwin has invented the acronyms FEARS for simple post-traumatic stress disorder and BAD FEARS for the severe post-traumatic stress disorder observed in survivors of childhood abuse.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw...very&x=13&y=23

[Elysium]

Originally Posted by _Sky

It probably isn't to anyone's benefit to discuss such a thing as "complex" ptsd.... you know? There isn't any such thing in the DSM-V. So no one can make such a diagnosis. It may just be the therapist's beliefs that it will be more difficult to treat for some reason because they can't find any one "cause" of ptsd? I really don't think it matters.

When a therapist gives such a label, what benefit is there? None, imo and in many other opinions. Complex PTSD as opposed to what? "Simple" PTSD? There isn't such a thing either! And maybe anyone with PTSD who doesn't find therapy early enough will develop what some misname as complex PTSD...as that is what ptsd does to life...each and every event thereafter is mishandled by the brain/mind causing the complexification of all the details of life.

PTSD is bad enough by itself. There is no difference in treatment, nor does there need to be, imo. Once the therapy can make a breakthrough, the brain begins to "file" all the similar events it had "miss-filed"..all on it's own. So no one needs to go through each and every traumatic memory to find some healing. Plus, there is no cure for PTSD whether a T feels it's complexed or not. There is only life without the constant interferrence that PTSD makes.

Plus, I think a patient feels worse for some reason because they have such a thing.."complex" PTSD rather than the true dx of PTSD...and no one needs that. PTSD is a nasty beast of a diagnosis. I'm sorry you've suffered but glad you are receiving help to learn how to live with the beast.

Actually Sky, I have to disagree with you here. I have been diagnosed with complex PTSD myself, and had this verified by several different mental health practitioners.

What I have learned in my treatment, Complex PTSD is a new Dx that they are looking at adding in to the DSM. It will probably make it into the DSM VI. It did not go into the DSM V because they were running into some difficulties with the legal language of the Dx, as it is similar to Borderline Personality Disorder. They felt that they still have some work to do on this and are looking at how they need to update both diagnoses to make the language more clear.

It is true that, in the grand scheme of things, it is no better or worse to have PTSD vs Complex PTSD. They are both terrible disorders to have and there is not one that is technically worse than the other. The main difference between the two is that PTSD is typically related to a singular event like a natural disaster, a car crash, death of a loved one, rape, where Complex PTSD is related to a prolonged exposure to trauma, such as repeated sexual abuse, long term witnessing of domestic violence, emotional abuse, long term physical abuse, long term torture. To say that a therapist would make the diagnosis of C-PTSD because "they can't find any one cause" for the PTSD is not correct. This diagnosis is made when there is LONG TERM exposure to trauma, as opposed to one singular event.

There are some differences in treatment, but they are very similar. The main differences are that with the C-PTSD, the focus is more in-depth and geared towards changing thinking and behavior patterns that have become more firmly ingrained into a person, along with safety plans and work on decreasing the anxiety/panic that comes with the disorder, whereas with PTSD, the treatment is not as in-depth and lengthy.

I know that there are a lot of educated people on this site and that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I don't believe it is appropriate to say that a diagnosis doesn't exist just because it hasn't been added into the DSM at this point. It can be very invalidating when someone comes in and says that something so real to you doesn't exist. As if to say that our experiences are not worthy of being noticed as more extreme.

I look at PTSD and C-PTSD as it is on a continuum, kind of like the continuum of dissociation. One is just a little more extreme than the other. It doesn't mean anyone is more special, or more devistated than another without the word "complex" before their disorder. It just means that there is a noted difference in the disorders etiologies, symptoms, and treatment.

I realize that this was your opinion and you are entitled to it. I do have to say though, that simply placing the word COMPLEX in front of PTSD is not something that makes me feel worse because the word is there. I think that's kind of flippant actually. What makes me feel worse is the 21 years of emotional and physical abuse and neglect I experienced growing up. You can put whatever word you want in front of it...you could call it ridiculous-PTSD, it still wouldn't change the fact that it is post-traumatic stress on the more extreme end of the continuum.

Take care!!

[Elysium]

Sky...

From everything I have read and learned, the diagnosis of Complex PTSD does exist, it just has not made it into the DSM V this time around.

Kind of like when a new medication comes out but doesn't make it out in time to get into the pharmaceutical manuals. That med still exists, and it is still utilized in medication therapy, it just didn't make it in the book yet for one reason or the other.

And to be clear...I am not saying that I feel like I have worse PTSD or that the name Complex-PTSD automatically means that one person's disorder is worse than anothers just because it has the word "complex" before it. I am merely pointing out that there are some deliniations in the etiologies, symptomology, and treatments. It is absolutely NOT about whose disorder is worse than whose. I agree with you in that it is a very personal experience and no one will experience the same amount of pain as another, regardless of how you phrase a diagnosis.

I guess I see it like Bi-polar Disorder. There is Bi-polar I, and Bi-Polar II. They're both Bi-Polar, neither one worse or better than the other, just some different etiologies, symptoms, and slightly different treatments.

I'm not trying to fight or argue with you...just sharing what I have learned. You don't have to agree with it. I won't be offended if you don't. I'm sorry if you feel offended by what I have written, but I think it's okay to disagree and talk about different opinions, as long as it can be done respectfully.

Take care!!

drjean said, Plus, I think a patient feels worse for some reason because they have such a thing.."complex" PTSD rather than the true dx of PTSD...

Wow. That's all I can say.

I have nothing against any of you nor would I invalidate your reactions in or through the PTSD. But also be careful to not invalidate those who have had "only" one particular event that has caused all the same responses and such that those who have endured more than one event. That's also my point. PTSD is enough.

I won't invalidate your one event if you don't invalidate my long term trauma like you did in the first quote.

[(JD)]

I'm sorry Orange Blossom. My intent was to show that you don't require the complex dx to validate what you went through. I'm sorry that it was missed. People end up where they are not simply (?) because of what they went through but because it's the nature of PTSD. To put such a tag onto it "complex" diminishes the very nature of the disorder: to cause everything to become complexed trauma.

crystalrose,

Not sure if you saw this article. Sometimes we can get lost in all the psychobabble jargon and this explains things well, at least it did for me.

http://psychcentral.com/lib/2006/types-of-ptsd/

[crystalrose]

Thanks for that article. I'm not sure if i have ptsd.

[Elysium]

Sky....Oiy Vay!!!

I apologize that my PTSD caused you to flippantly respond to my comment about you responding flippantly. LOL...

Enough already....we're really just comparing apples to apples, aren't we? You can call yours Red Delicious and I'll call mine Granny Smith's!! When it comes down to it, they're both apples, just different types.

Or....look at it this way...

huMAN: MAN, woMAN - same species, just made a little bit different!!

But...if it makes you feel better, since according to you, I feel better having a bigger diagnosis than you, we can always call yours Resistant-PTSD, or R-PTSD?

My only question is, if it really doesn't matter what it's called, why in the hell does it matter to you at all whether or not someone puts the word "complex" in front of it?

Peace my Sister!!

[Elysium]

Originally Posted by crystalrose

Thanks for that article. I'm not sure if i have ptsd.

Well...I hope no one here is confusing you on your diagnosis. If I am then I apologize. It's not my intention.

If you have been diagnosed by a mental health professional with this disorder, more than likely this diagnosis is correct. Sometimes denial can rear it's ugly head though and we can try and convince ourselves it does not exist, because we don't want it, or because we don't want to admit to ourselves that bad things happened to us.

If you truly disagree, it is always okay to get a second opinion!!

[phoenix7]

Whether complex, resistant! or PTSD - PTSD sucks!!!!!

I would be happy to call it disenfranchisedbunnyears if someone could show me a fast effective way to get rid of it!!!!

any takers??????

Sending to all!

[(JD)]

Crystalrose, PTSD is an anxiety disorder. So you might find it helpful to search out how to help limit your anxiety reactions. PTSD requires the element of death, dying, fear of dying etc. Therapists don't usually bantee diagnosis about, and I hope the T wouldn't have shared a label with you without having reason to...but some of us prefer not to use labels as it can cause great stress for some, as you see.

You are who you are, and suffer how you suffer, no matter what anyone calls it...a label doesn't change the experience for you.

(Maybe instead of complex ptsd it should be called complex anxiety disorder.)

[phoenix7]

Originally Posted by _Sky

Crystalrose, PTSD is an anxiety disorder. So you might find it helpful to search out how to help limit your anxiety reactions.

The grounding techniques at the top of the page may help

You are who you are, and suffer how you suffer, no matter what anyone calls it...a label doesn't change the experience for you.

this is a brilliant statement and very true - even if it doesnt feel that way

[deliquesce]

sky...

it sounds to me that your main "argument" against c-ptsd is that it somehow makes "real" ptsd seem pale in comparison. this is simply not true - it's a misunderstanding of the name.

the "complex" in c-ptsd refers to the nature (ongoing) of the trauma, whereas ptsd refers to a single event. it is NOT meant to somehow suggest that having one disorder is "worse" than having the other. it sounds to me like you have been triggered by this misunderstanding. no one here is seeking "extra" validation by accepting the label of c-ptsd, we are merely affirming that this label fits our experience better.

to take it to something else in mental health: there is the diagnosis of major depressive disorder, and then there is psychotic depression. one obviously encompasses the other (psychotic depression is depression PLUS psychotic features). this does not mean psychotic depression is necessarily worse, but to deny that it exists merely because it shares (all) of the features of depression is to miss half the clinical picture.

similarly, there is ptsd and there is c-ptsd. c-ptsd is ptsd PLUS other factors. ptsd (as it stands in the dsm-iv) does NOT completely and accurately describe the extra factors present in c-ptsd.

if the diagnosis of c-ptsd does not apply to you, then that is ok. it doesn't mean your suffering is any less "complex". it does mean that you do not (hopefully!) have to struggle with the extra factors present in c-ptsd. and that is a good thing .

[DocJohn]

I would ask that all participants in this thread be supportive in their comments to one another. We generally do not sanction debates or arguments about whether a particular mental disorder is more "legitimate" than another here in the support forums. Why? Because they are first and foremost support forums.

While indeed "complex PTSD" is not currently a recognized DSM diagnosis, that doesn't preclude people from discussing it without being questioned about its validity. I appreciate people's cooperation in this, thank you.

DocJohn