[Rosondo]

Hi

So something horrible happened, I don't want to discuss it now, but it was years ago, and I saw my parents coming up short. They were selfish, incompetent, and unloving during that time.

During the trauma (it did not happen to me, it was a chronic situation lasting several years with the younger sibling in a very bad situation and needing help), I felt real helpless. Even when I felt the trauma was over, it kept repeating, my parents failed to be of help, and in fact several times aggravated the situation to a scary point where I thought my sibling would commit suicide. As if this was not bad enough, I also became very anxious and went into a deep depression, so that when the trauma repeated again and again, I was more and more powerless and felt even more helpless as a result. At that point something much less dramatic would have made me feel anxious too.

On top of that, one of the reasons these issues did traumatize me so badly was that I felt this is how my parents had behaved towards ME when I was younger, especially times when I was acting out (not trying to be mean to them, but often because of pain and hurt, to get their attention).

I also felt terribly guilty for not having helped my sibling, for being an asshole to my sibling in the past (sometimes you are trying to survive in a difficult situation and are selfish and ignore people closest to you, as I had done, and sometimes you're just not thinking about things, I have no real excuses). I felt I did not deserve to be happy, that the same thing could have happened to me. I had been lucky enough to have not had it that bad, but the trauma certainly brought back memories.

I went to a couple of therapists, my bad luck was that one actually retraumatized me (the person had emotional problems and eventually lost his license). I can not describe to you the pain I was in. I considered suicide multiple times during this period, feeling neither my parents nor even a paid professional could be safe. I became afraid of getting sick and helpless because I could not rely on doctors nor my parents. Even to this day me feeling a cold coming on frightens me.

I found a better doctor years later, tried several antidepressants and a small dose of antipsychotic on the side. I still suffer. My sibling is in a fairly stable condition but there are no guarantees. My parents still behave in ways that aggravate me. I do not live with them any longer but still interact with them and go over, try to be as nice as possible. I had been acting out too, like was mad at them for the way they were treating my sibling. It was a horrible time for everybody involved. But I so badly want to get past this.

This is too much suffering, I've been suffering almost nonstop for the last ten years. I don't have a job, I don't go to school, I literally have no friends. I am just part of this forum and a couple others that I no longer visit, mainly because I ended up acting out in one of them (questioning incessantly the moderators, sort of like they were authority figures, getting in fight with people who were forming alliances, almost everything reminding me of my parents behavior and sibling). I dont' leave my home. I can't believe at one point I went to college and held a part time job and people actually said I was a polite nice guy to be around and cared about me. I hate this. I've read multiple books, I keep trying hard to keep myself getting up everyday, telling myself there is hope, something good will happen, there is a way to mentally get around this. But every time I try that I think I'm being selfish, I'm just trying to save my own ***, I don't care about my sibling, that a similar trauma could and might happen to me, etc. Okay I'm gonna stop...

[Quarter life]

Hey Rosondo, You can write as little or as much as you need to here. Reading through your post I can relate to many of the events and feelings that you have about your family, and the consequences of the trauma that you went through. Although our experiences differ somewhat, the end result is the same....people that resemble someone that used to be real, but are smashed into a million pieces sitting in a corner watching the world they hate go by. I've been tackling the fallout of "torture trauma' for 25 years.....but have found a few coping mechanisms that work for me. Everyone is different and responds in different ways, but if after reading my profile you want to chat...then I'm here.Q.L

[Open Eyes]

((Rosondo)),

I am sorry that you struggle with "abandonment" and "trust" issues. When a child is raised in a scenario where they do not feel "safe or heard" the child can really struggle later in life with their own personal sense of value as you are describing. You are not alone with this internal struggle either, so many people struggle with different degrees of this and develop shields to self protect. The problem is that if something penetrates that shield somehow, it can result to where that person feels very vulnerable and have a desire to "withdraw" or "obsess" with self guilt or some sense of failure that can really become a ghost of haunting thoughts and emotions that can be crippling at times.

Also, fearing that you may be "like your father somehow", does not have to take place either, this is something I see happen a lot too. No, what you can do, is finally take the time to learn whatever your father just "did not know" or "was somehow dysfunctional because of the many mixed messages or "lack" he himself had to deal with somehow". It is always there and is handed down out of "ignorance" not because of true unworthiness.

As far as your brother also struggling and you didn't help in that scenario, may have even ignored it, isn't "your" fault. The truth is, "you didn't know how" because your parents never instilled that in you. Your parents failed both you and your brother because they never connected or paid attention to you the way you and all children need.

For you to gain in "healing" from how you are struggling right now, you have to learn to slowly understand that unfortunately, it was never your fault or even that you were ever unworthy of being loved or heard to where you gained a personal sense of self worth.

Being that you are a man, perhaps an example I can give is how a person can go out and buy a car, not really knowing how to take care of it, and end up running it into the ground because the person didn't even know enough to add oil and transmission fluid. And this is very real because gages have been developed to light up and give warnings of "oil is low, water is low, transmission fluid is needed". Unfortunately, children have very few automatic gages that will light up so a parent really knows what is needed. And unfortunately the signs children "do" give off are often "ignored" by parents simply because they just do not know "how to nurture a child correctly". And, unfortunately, often what little a parent does know could very well be coming from "the dysfunctional and unhealthy parenting style they got from their parents too". So that can lead to a lot of cars that are simply run into the ground when if anyone took the time to "learn" how to properly care for and maintain this commitment, their vehicle could run well and last a very, very long time.

You "are" still young and you "can" slowly learn how to understand this and realign yourself emotionally so that you can make your way to really repairing and understanding how to maintain yourself so you can slowly function better. However, you also have to come to terms with how your parents still do not know how to maintain a healthy way of providing a "healthy" relationship with you, or any child. You have to understand how to look upon this as "not about your worthiness" but the pitiful way your parents were and still remain "ignorant".

What this means is "you" are going to have to be the one who learns how to actually maintain and understand about the oil and the transmission fluid, the brake pads and the tune ups that your parents never took the time to learn about, didn't even realize how important it really was for them to learn about it either, and believe me, that is very common.

When someone is run down badly, they have to really go through themselves on a very personal level where they slowly learn all the areas that were hurt in them to where they got to this point where you are and so many others are too. You also have to learn to understand that you will meet others in society that also have some of these unattended areas, but may be running, but not really very well "tuned" or even aware of how you struggle because on some level these other people are themselves "lacking" but don't truly know it. However, by learning where "you" went unattended, you can slowly learn to recognize the areas where others "lack" and instead of your ability to understand better, you can learn to look at this in a way that no longer "frightens" you. This will be due to how you finally learned how to figure "yourself" out and identify unattended areas to where you realize that others may not give you what you would like, not because you are unworthy, but because these others have missing knowledge and unattended areas
themselves.

Both women and men struggle with PTSD. Men are more likely to disengage with life because they are designed to have a more mechanical and problem solving "fixing" brain. They do however have emotions, that's just "human nature", and often when they experience "emotional challenges" they get confused as to how to "fix" that part and unfortunately society has long sent these messages that "men" are supposed to be able to control their emotions and "just fix and do". Well, that is really "not" how our emotions really "work". That is the same as insisting that if a car simply cannot run without oil that it is no good and needs to be scrapped altogether. And this is what leads to many males acting out in some very troubling ways, either towards others or themselves. And unfortunately, when men are not nurtured correctly with a father or mentor that can really help them understand what is really under the hood of maintaining a healthy sense of being a male and thriving in adulthood as a male, that can lead to a continuing dysfunction in every family that stems from this "lack of knowledge" in many generations that come "after".

I have been listening to the male members that discuss their challenges here at PC for a couple of years now, and many of their issues stem from their fathers and how poorly the father understood what a "healthy father role in the family" should be. And this problem has gotten worse and worse in our Society overall and it has brought out some very dysfunctional scenarios that plague our society in many ways now. And it is not a problem that can ever be solved by just "throwing money at it" either, which has been something that has been taking place that is not doing "anything" to really change a need and often what that has done is even make it "worse". Even if your father was wealthy, it would not have changed "how you are struggling right now".

What will help is working with a "good therapist" that can help you learn where all these areas that challenge you can slowly be identified, understood, and where you can slowly build genuine "skills" to finally find the resolve you need, a resolve to problems that were never due to your lack of personal worth or were ever your fault either. Instead you have the right and deserve to mourn whatever had not been provided for you, that you did not understand or know how to fix somehow. You deserve to "express" the emotional challenges you have without thinking you need to feel "shame" for these emotions, and instead to embrace the fact that you are only human and that even though you didn't know, you actually "can" learn.

(((Caring Hugs)))
OE

[Open Eyes]

One of the things I have noticed about a lot of men is how many of them have developed to where they become "inaccessible". With that in mind, take a moment and sit back and think about what that means on a "grander scale", not just "you" but all around you. Who can you name as a man in our society that is "truly accessible"? It is even ok to think about this question on a "global scale" and even on a "historical level".

One word that tends to be put out there as a catch word or "talking point" word is Transparency. This word is a word that connects with "accessibility". Is this really taking place "anywhere"? Any where?

If you have to turn to trying to think about someone that you "may" think is an accessible role model, but you have to make any kind of excuses for, then this is not a truly "accessible person".

One of the things that I have noticed that "is" taking place is not "true" accessibility, but "acting". Not only that but this "acting" is only really "shielding", which of course is "disingenuous".

When I do see "some accessibility" peeking through in our society today, often what immediately takes place is "questioning, ridicule, and invalidation". Often what tends to be embraced is the "shielding" unfortunately. "Well, at least he did this or at least it is an attempt and maybe this or that". Often without even realizing it, we tend to defend or think we should look up to "inaccessible people". We do this in society , work places and even in our own families. Accessibility has become something that has to be orchestrated and acted out in a certain way these days, it has become more of a "disconnect" then a "genuine connection".

For myself, I definitely have been struggling with PTSD, and with this struggle the one thing I "can" say is that it has led me to "suffering an extreme challenge with feeling very disconnected as well as a strong desire to become "inaccessible". So Rosondo, I know very intimately and can relate to what you are describing of how "you" struggle as well.

However Rosondo, as I have come to slowly learn that much of how I struggle is "not my fault", I can also embrace you with telling you that how you struggle is "not your fault" either. In my post to you above, I was hoping to give you a "starting" point to understanding how your personal challenge has developed and how to try to look at how you now struggle and feel so disconnected in a new way. I can definitely hear your "fear of Abandonment" in your post.

I can tell you that I have been abandoned so many times in my life that I have lost count. I can also say that a lot of this began very early in my life and much of it originated from how my father and even other males just "did not know how". It was not because they were "terrible males" either, my father was not a bad man. My older brother who was a constant MAJOR stressor/trauma to me for so many years, was not a bad child, he had problems that were grossly misunderstood and were addressed in a way that made him even worse. I have been married to a man for 33 years and he also had some problems too, it was never that he was a bad man either, but, he was indeed very troubled and misguided which created constant turmoil in me in my adult life too. I would have to say that my entire life has been learning how to somehow deal with some "very dysfunctional males" and it truly took a toll on me to where I finally just "broke" in a way I never imagined could happen. I am now a person who is riddled with so many triggers that have often completely disabled me, that it has taken me quite some time to wrap my brain around it all.

I can tell you that it is not "horrible" that a man experience a break down or struggle the way you are describing. What is "horrible" is if you or any man determines that because of this, you are not worthy of "learning and healing" and even possibly getting to a point where you can someday share this new "accessibility" with other males, because there really is a tremendous shortage of that. Being a "good, productive, strong male has nothing to do with how well you can run away from "feeling" either. Instead, it has more to do with "understanding these feelings and learning how to finally address them and that it is really "OK" to feel. It isn't how "inaccessible" you can make yourself either, it is actually learning how to be more "accessible" and finally just be "you". In all honesty, driving around in an expensive car, wearing high priced suits, having a big house, a big job, and all the trappings that can lead to becoming "more inaccessible" is not what being a "successful good man" is all about.

So to answer your question about how to get around how close ones can
come up "short" when dealing with trauma, you do have learn to realize that what it really boils down to is "they simply do not know how to" not come up short. But that doesn't mean you are unworthy and don't deserve to reach out to people that "can" give you what you "do" need. I do know it is very hard when family members can often be so completely unsupportive and even "mean". I experienced that myself and it was brutal. I finally found a therapist who really understood PTSD and took time to explain it to my husband at least. That didn't mean my husband suddenly changed, but at least it was helpful enough where I could at least begin to focus on "my healing" with a T that could help me whenever my husband was "hurting that progress". Right now, you can't help anyone, you need to focus on "you" for a while and give yourself total permission to do "just that". And you are very welcome to come here and vent whenever you need to as well.

Something to think about.........

(((Caring Hugs)))
OE

[Rosondo]

Thank you so much for your replies. I'm kind of anxious today, afraid of being triggered, so I will read the replies later today or tomorrow. But that you guys replied, and at length, really warms my heart. "Strangers" who don't know me and try to help me, it's enough to make me tear up pretty good. Thanks again.

[Open Eyes]

(((Rosondo))),

You are very welcome dear, it's ok if you can't read the posts right now. I will say that even when you "do" read them, it's going to take time for it to settle in. This thread is yours, take your time, no one is expecting you to jump up and be cured here.

((Understanding Hugs))),
OE

[Teacake]

You are hunkered down and you are losing your life. I lost a lot of mine waiting for a professional therapist to say or do something useful. It rarely happened.

If you want to get better, you will need to find a somatic therapy to bring your body out of freeze/dissociation into calm-alert normal states. It may take a while. Go slow. Traumatised people go fast, freaking out in crisis and panic. Healthy peopme go slow. Get used to it now.

Your calm-alert body will be able to process all the shocking details of your family life quite simply. You probably don't need a therapist.

A lot of people have a lot of questionable "fun" playing ptsd. People are playful. It's a trait I admire. But you are a young person who could ruin your life living as a wastrel because you are afraid.
I
Do neurogenic yoga or David Bercelis TRE..
Avoid stimulants
Live regularly. Get used to being calm and slow, no violent video games, no aggressive sports.
Once your body is normal, your psyche will probably take care of itself. It can. It wants to.
Then you can work on this dissociated lifestyle.

[Rosondo]

Sorry for the late response, I was in too much pain, had to create a distance, but I'm here to reply to people who were so kind as to read my post and share thoughts and feelings with me at length.

You're all the best!

I will start by replying to Quarter Life first. Sorry for the long posts but today I really need to talk so here I go.

Originally Posted by Quarter life

Hey Rosondo, You can write as little or as much as you need to here. Reading through your post I can relate to many of the events and feelings that you have about your family, and the consequences of the trauma that you went through. Although our experiences differ somewhat, the end result is the same....people that resemble someone that used to be real, but are smashed into a million pieces sitting in a corner watching the world they hate go by. I've been tackling the fallout of "torture trauma' for 25 years.....but have found a few coping mechanisms that work for me. Everyone is different and responds in different ways, but if after reading my profile you want to chat...then I'm here.Q.L

Thank you very much for responding. God I can't imagine what it would be like for me to react to "torture trauma" and I hope I never find out. I'm so sorry that you went through that. Did you ever want to give up, did you ever feel like there was absolutely no hope, that things will never ever get better, that you're stuck in this alternative world where people are unreal and you're fragmented and "normalcy" is beyond reach?

I so miss the days I used to get up and go to college and problems, big and small, were SOLVABLE, either perceived or actually solvable. The world made sense (mostly) and what did not make sense was not something that messed up the rest of my life. I had goals (go to college, do well, find a job, make family proud, make friends, etc) and I felt confident that I could achieve them (maybe not best job or best girlfriend, but somebody to love me, somebody to hire me, etc). I could rely on my parents when I was down, I TRUSTED them mostly, and when they acted in ways that bothered me, it did not break anything fundamental in me, I just saw it as them having a "bad day."

But then the trauma happened and everything changed. I tried to justify things, ignore things, make light of them, nothing worked. I went to a couple of therapists, tried meds, but at the end of the day I feel I'm in a world where I feel so alone (because of being an emotionally damaged witness to a trauma), I feel fragmented, I feel goal-less, I feel misunderstood, I feel unable to trust people, I feel unable to live a "normal" life, unable to have meaning.

The pain is too much. I'm not a weak person, I've always been a fighter, school work did not come easy to me but I spent hours studying, learned discipline, did my best. Yet this pain overwhelms me. And makes me totally powerless.

The sibling I mentioned (let's call him/her X) still has many problems and though a sense of stability has emerged, it does not calm my worries. My therapist has told me why do I feel responsible for my sibling like that? Is it survival guilt? I don't know. But every time I see my parents act indifferently or selfishly around X, so much anger builds up inside me. Worst, my mom has a way of not owning her own anxiety or anger, so if issues come up or she gets worried about X, she will pull me into the situation.

Like for X's birthday, who is always hypervigilant and extra sensitive to being rejected, she misinformed me about the time of the event, so I ended up having to delay them, and this did not go well with X. It made me enraged but I could not talk about it there. I have told my mom over and over again, Stop that! I've become distant, then after a while open up a bit and again she does that. And she does it so repeatedly that again I'm distant and we're back to zero in our relationship. Apparently when she's in the moment (that day X had not been in the greatest mood) and becomes afraid, which she has reason to (X had once attacked my mom when she kept bugging X, not knowing X was in the middle of a psychotic episode), she will quickly shift the blame to someone.

My dad's approach is distance. He won't get close enough and so does not hurt me like that, but my mom who does get close, end up doing that. And it feels like me being retraumatized. Because I'm doing everything in my power to always be pleasant and accommodating to X. Because I'm afraid. I'm afraid X will end up hospitalized again, I'm afraid of my parents' fights, of my other sibling who is younger developing the same illness, I'm afraid of everything.

My family and I have lost contact with most people. I'm living separately and I want to cooperate so we can move forward as a family but my mom really makes things extremely difficult for me. When I'm distant she gets my dad to talk to me so I can be closer to them. She already has rage issues so my dad tries to keep her happy and also not bothering him, so I seem to a safe target for them.

In the past (years before that trauma, when I felt my parents especially my mom were controlling) in our relationship I did fight back and became abusive myself (yelling, saying mean things) so I have been doing my best to remain civil and not lose my temper. But it's hard. Every time when I visit my parents, with X present there of course, I end up having about two horrible days. Literally sleepless for two nights, multiple panic attacks and extreme fatigue, all kinds of anxiety about death and dying, etc, the next two days.

Growing up a sensitive shy kid, I always valued my parents' acceptance and love highly. I hated being rejected. If people who create you can't love you, then who can? I tried religion, but could not persist. I so wanted God to be the parent I did not have, be always present, be loving, be caring, never leave you, never reject you. I still feel spiritual deep inside my heart. It's extremely unfair and cruel if a world this beautiful and complex does not give a **** about people who get sick, raped, killed, tortured, used and abused, on a daily basis. I can't make it through life if I only see life as pure chance, random, accidental. How the heck can I leave my apartment ever? What or who is protecting me from random accidents?

At times I have felt powerful, that I can solve things in my relations and in life, that I can go on even if bad things happen to loved ones, and I have tried very hard to create some kind of discipline, so I'm not home all day long, so like go out shopping two times a week, do yoga, actually cook instead of having frozen food all the time. Yet that sense of power in me is so fragile. Like I would be real anxious at first but maybe the third day I'm in the bus and suddenly I feel good, world makes sense, people are not fragmented, life is normal. But then suddenly I see someone throw up outside, or maybe go home and see some building unexpectedly collapsed, or just some stupid random accident that triggers me and I'm back to before, totally afraid and powerless.

I feel like there is no ground under my feet, parents could die, I could get sick and die, there are no guarantees, no safety net, no place and nothing I can hold on to. Oh I so miss my religious inclinations when I was a young teenager, when I really felt like I could depend on God. That if I prayed and was a "good kid" then God would not let bad things happen to me or my loved ones....