[desperado]

Hi Jerry,

I am very, very concerned. I've been on clonazepam (avg. dose ~ 1.5 mg/day) for approx nine years. Now, I am seeing a new dr. who has increased it to 4mg/day (apparently temporarily).

I was talking to the pharmacist yesterday about the particular side effect of memory problems & confusion. He told me that since all benzo's are CNS depressants, if one is on them for many mos &/or years @ a time, they can basically KILL brain cells (which obviously don't regenerate).

I found this EXTREMELY disconcerting & upsetting.....it does explain several lapses in short & long-term memory for me. Also, despite its potential addictive properties, my current dr. says that one cannot become addicted on any clonazepam dose < 6mg. I honestly don't believe him, since all the websites, literature & past dr.'s have told me the opposite.

My new dr. also told me that Trazedone was horribly addictive...which I've also been on for ~nine years, I think (25 mg). He took me off of it & I'm having a horrible time sleeping......

I will definitely voice my concerns w/ my dr. tomorrow @ my appt; however, he can be quite arrogant & dismiss a lot of my side effect concerns (i.e., assure me they aren't true). Obviously, I'm ticked & looking for a new dr.

I am absolutely struggling, extremely frustrated & concerned and would really, really appreciate your take on all of this. Thanks very much in advance.

d

[(JD)]

.... (((hugs)))) just wanted to drop a positive note here... they JUST came out with results of a study... we CAN develop new brain cells. One of the best ways, they say, is to try and learn a foreign language. You don't have to learn it, just the act of studying and trying will grow new cells. aya!

[January]

Hi Desparado,

I just wanted to let you know that I have been on trazadone for many years. It is addictive and you can't sleep if you try to go off it suddenly. However, the good it does me far outweighs my worries of addiction.

The same goes for my benzo, which is Xanax. There was a time when I became so frightened of being addicted that I quit taking all my meds. I had forgotten what a living Hell my live had been before I started taking my meds. It shocked me back into realizing that a decent life taking addictive drugs was much better than barely existing in misery without them.

I hope this helps allay your fears somewhat.

All my best to you.

January

[desperado]

Thanks for the hugs, Sky & the positive input...I've actually learned two foreign languages (including one in the past year), however, I still have crazy memory lapses & confusion. I.e., sometimes I'll be thinking of a word as simple as "chair", but not be able to remember it.....so I say, "What's that thing called that you sit down on which usually is beside a desk or table????" (Prob doesn't make much sense, but that's what happens).

I am curious about this study. I wonder how long it takes to regenerate brain cells. Do you have any links to the study, Sky?

Anyway, thanks again.

[desperado]

Hi January,

Oh, ok, makes sense, re: Traz. Do you mind if I ask you how big a dose you are on? Glad to hear it helps you.

It's interesting.....different ppl I've talked to generally have contradicting opionions re: benzo's. Someone I know is currently on 2mg clonazepam and had previously been on as much as 6mg (and @ one time, 8 mg - which is hard to believe, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt). He says that when on 6 & 8 mg's, his life was hell........major stomach probs, extreme anxiety, felt terrible. Even @ 2mg, he feels anxious, but feels a bit better (less dopey, too) @ 1 mg. However, he does say that when he hasn't taken it in a while, he feels "off", so I guess it helps him. However, this guy is an extremely anxious & stressed person....I feel so badly for him.

Anyway, my current dr. put me on 4mg of clonaz (as of Wed) (in addition to my 300 mg Manerix & 5 mg of dexedrine. I took only 2mg Wed eve (b/c I was so afraid of side effects after discussing w/ pharmacist), and I was up until 4 frickin a.m. Thurs a.m. All in all, I was up from Wed 10 a.m. - Thurs 4 a.m. - 40 hrs straight. I was crusty as HELL & felt like total crap, so finally, @ 4 a.m, I took the additional 2mg of clonaz. Fell asleep for 3.5 hrs, but felt even WORSE on Thurs.....so dizzy, feel down stairs, extremely nauseas, terrible migraine, extreme constipation, felt like a complete zombie, couldn't think properly, totally, totally lethargic........and finally passed out Thurs aft from 2:30 p.m. - 7:30 p.m. At 10 pm, I only took my 2mg of clonaz again - no way in hell I wanted to feel as crappy (to say the least as yesterday). I fell asleep for 3 hrs, then major broken sleep from 1 am - 7:30 am when I awoke. Still feel crappy today, but not as bad, I guess.

Saw my dr. today.......voiced my concerns, he told me I was the most incomplient pt he's ever had re: meds & said that he's putting me in hospital in 4 weeks if I don't get better. I was SO frickin upset.....hospital makes me worse, absolutely WORSE. LONG story, don't want to get into it, but I was crying pretty much all session b/c of that news. I'm trying so bloody hard to get better.......but he doesn't see that.

He told me to go off the 5 mg of dexedrine tomorrow a.m. (cold turkey) AND told me to go off the 2mg of clonazepam tonight (again, COLD TURKEY). I was so upset re: hospital threat, that I forgot to ask him re: dangers of going off these meds cold turkey, ESPEC 2 mg clonaz. So right after my appt, I remembered, called & left a message. But he won't call back...........only calls back like, 3% of the time. He's an absolute IDIOT. Currrently looking for new dr.

Sorry this reply is so crusty - I'm just EXTREMELY frustrated, angry & hopeless.

Thanks for your feedback, Jan.

d

[crober]

I took Xanax for over 10 years and I recently stopped. Memory loss was the reason. I had my last Xanax May 20, 2006. So far I am feeling pretty good but the old problem of insomnia from 10 years ago is back. VERBAL RECALL difficulty is the #1 symptom of long term Xanax usage (I still support Xanax usage by the way). Once my boss asked me for my address so he could pick me up for a trip and I couldn't remember it!

But my memory has gotten much better during the past couple of months. I have a private office at work so when I get panic attacks I can just wait for it to pass without much embarrassment. When I can sleep, everything is pretty much fine (so far...)

http://www.xanaxpanicdisorder.com/home.html

[eskielover]

I was on benzos for years & years & would take OD's on them many many times. I knew they didn't seem to do anything for me....& especially realized it when I took 100 10mg valium one night & my psychologist called the paramedics. Then came out to my house & took me to the ER. For some reason, they got the number wrong that I took & when they went me up to the psych ward, I was able to talk myself out of the actual amount I took. I was able to talk to them as if I hadn't taken any (or at least only about 5). The only way they could have proved the amount I took would have been with a blood test, but I talked my way out of that OD.

As for loosing brain cells, I found this very interesting. I had been basically a straig A student & then a college grad with a 3.25 grade point average in computer science & accounting information systems. I worked as an aerospace engineer programming communications systems for 15 years before going out of work because they moved me out of the technical area & I just hated the position I ended up in & felt trapped when they wouldn't let me transfer back into the technical area when a position became avaliable. When I was having the anxiety & depression, I ended up OD'ing (I lost count of the # of times). I was almost successful several times & once ended up in a coma & on a breathing machine for several days before being able to breath on my own again. If that didn't kill millions of brain cells, I don't know what!!!!!! A few years ago, I decided to try to go through the rehab & try to get money for going back to college & get training for a new career at the age of 50. It was a process of going through testing for 5 days (almost 8 hours / day). At the end of the time, they went over the results & were surprised at how intelligent I really was (I was really surprised too). The math, reading, spelling, even physics results were way higher than most of the results they were used to there (of course, they weren't used to working with college educated people). What really surprised me was that after what I did to myself physically to my brain, I couldn't believe how intelligent my brain could be after so many years out of college & with all the horrible things I had done to myself. I don't know what the relationship between brain cells being killed & the level of intelligence we end up having.....but at least I feel like I am intelligent enough to do whatever I decide I want to do with my life even at this age. I have changed my goals since my mothers death & since I will be moving to Kentucky to establish my farm for my horses & my american eskimo dog breeding.

I am very amazed that I didn't kill off so many brain cells that would decrease my brains ability to think or learn. I have to admit that I abused myself beyond what I ever would have thought I would do & at the time I just didn't care at all. But looking back, I guess I am really lucky that the damage wasn't as bad as it should have been. Sometimes miricals happen & guess I must be one.

Debbie

[desperado]

Hi Debbie,

Wow. That is quite the story. I am sorry to hear that you have OD'd so many times, but read the fact that you have made it out alive as a sign that you are meant to be alive.

You sound quite intelligent and your job history is very impressive. I am glad to hear that you have more goals for yourself on the horizon.....you sound pretty determined, too. Go girl!

Thanks for the post. I'm still not sure what the heck to believe re: dead brain cells & benzo's......all I know is that everyone is different & that I still can't sleep on 3mg of clonazepam. I have resorted to two different over-the-counter meds tonight, in addition to the 3 mg clonaz. I don't care - I need sleep. I am going absolutely crazy. My "dr" has abandoned me, and the script for Imovane (hypnotic) ran out yesterday (no repeats).

I wish that I never EVER started taking any type of psych med 16 yrs ago - all it has done is screwed me up even more. (Had I been more educated back then - and not a naive teen - I would have refused med Tx).

God, am I ever frustrated.

Take care & good luck with everything.

d

[niko851]

Hey D -

I know the feeling here.... I've been on Xanax for over 10 years and whenever I run out, yet alone try to go without them, I end up in such a 'fit' it is almost life-threatning.

The benzo class of drugs is very effective, especially for panic disorder, however they are very very dangerous. Having to also take a narcotic pain-killer, and from experience as well, I don't understand WHY the benzo's are not classified higher than the painkillers. The reason I say this? I cannot BELIEVE the HELL I have been through when intentionally or un-intentionally going w/out Xanax compared to the pain meds. Listing all the things that happen to me would take up far too much space, but nonethless, I would prefer death at that point rather than EVER go through it again....

But.... It will happen again; As I said, I attempt to try and go without the things, only to have HORRIBLE attacks or HORRIBLE withdrawals... Either or, the stuff is just bad news whenever you want to quit taking it or whenever you run out of it.

If you can find a way to get around the Klonopin ordeal, please let me know!!! I can't believe this Dr. put you on that much and also took you off another one, but this is not the first time I've heard of it. It's been done to me before, ended up hospitalized over the one time, and soon thereafter, that Dr. lost her license.... Go figure...

My thoughts are w/you D - hang in there and thanks for listening as well....
Niko

[desperado]

Hey Niko,

Thanks for your thoughts.

Yeah, I've been off of the benzo's about a week - I'm on 15 mg imovane, now - and I don't feel great, but I am managing. I'm not on an anti-dep either at the moment, b/c that wackjob of a "dr" finally took me off (after all of my begging & pleading - HORRIBLE side effects).

I get anx. attacks from time to time, but I think it's worth not being on the benzo. I don't want to be addicted, and there are the other lovely side effects to handle, namely: sweating, dry mouth, constipation, tiredness, decreased libido, etc.

For now, I guess I am addicted to that hypnotic imovane....until my script runs out. Then either I don't sleep, or I revert back to taking the benzo.

Take care,

d.

[Jerrypharmstudent]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
desparado said:
Hi Jerry,

I am very, very concerned. I've been on clonazepam (avg. dose ~ 1.5 mg/day) for approx nine years. Now, I am seeing a new dr. who has increased it to 4mg/day (apparently temporarily).

I was talking to the pharmacist yesterday about the particular side effect of memory problems & confusion. He told me that since all benzo's are CNS depressants, if one is on them for many mos &/or years @ a time, they can basically KILL brain cells (which obviously don't regenerate).

I found this EXTREMELY disconcerting & upsetting.....it does explain several lapses in short & long-term memory for me. Also, despite its potential addictive properties, my current dr. says that one cannot become addicted on any clonazepam dose < 6mg. I honestly don't believe him, since all the websites, literature & past dr.'s have told me the opposite.

My new dr. also told me that Trazedone was horribly addictive...which I've also been on for ~nine years, I think (25 mg). He took me off of it & I'm having a horrible time sleeping......

I will definitely voice my concerns w/ my dr. tomorrow @ my appt; however, he can be quite arrogant & dismiss a lot of my side effect concerns (i.e., assure me they aren't true). Obviously, I'm ticked & looking for a new dr.

I am absolutely struggling, extremely frustrated & concerned and would really, really appreciate your take on all of this. Thanks very much in advance.

d

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Sorry to get to your question so late -

First of all - all benzos can cause physical and psychological dependance - and at any dosage. Second, I'm not aware of the literature supporting "brain cell death" as caused by continued benzo treatment. If I am correct, just because a medication is classified as a depressant - this does not automatically mean that it destroys brain cells. YES - benzos can cause mental fogginess. And as for brain cells not being able to regenerate - I beg to differ.

There's a lot of research now showing the brain's amazing capabilities to regenerate, rewire, etc. Recent studies have shown that SSRIs help reverse hippocampal "shrinkage."

As for Trazadone being "highly addictive?" HA! That is absolutely absurd. Trazodone is an antidepressant that effects certain serotonin sub-receptors. It also effects histamine receptors - which is why it's so sedating and commonly used as a sleeping medication. I have NEVER heard nor read of any facts supporting Trazadone as a highly addictive med. If it were - it would be a controlled substance.

Again - sorry for the delay in my response.

Jerry