For anyone who wants to withdraw permanently

My pdoc, has let me drag my feet on meds, as long as I've needed. Hey, maybe we can clone him?

Hey doc, I'd like to keep working on this, in therapy, and then see about meds. So, I did. He's rather passionate, in his belief, that it's a combination of meds with therapy, that is most effective. But, that only came out, when I asked for it(ssri).

I have MS, and I have kids. 'suffering' with insomnia, is not a choice I can accept in my life. Lesions do funny things, when I stress my body with lack of sleep. I take, the non groggy sleep pill, too.

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I was just thinking about sleeping pill discussion, at work. The question posed to myself and the other script user, was about grogginess and whether it's daily. No, it's as needed, get back into routine, then don't touch, until needed again. There's only 10 pills to a bottle. Adjusting diet, and making attempts to keep a routine schedule are important, as it's an aid, not solution.

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Exactly! So if a dr is asking you to take an ssri/ni before the patent expires it is worth it to find out if there is a similar older one and if you are willing to tolerate the difference.

There have been several major studies the last few years looking at combining therapy and ad's that have shown it to be more successful especially when family therapy is involved. Sooooo....it's what you put into it is my read

Lexapro and Celexa ARE brand names of the same company, the article you posted was not about generic, it was about if Lexapro was any better than its older brother Celexa. nothing to do with generics. And Lexapro to me is far better advanced than Celexa ever was, so I think that article way off .

It wasn't meant to be. Celexa worked fine for me. Every body reacts differently (otherwise why would they have to try a zillion cocktails) so unless you aren't on a budget it makes sense to me to at least try the cheaper, older brother version first. And this is especially true if you suspect the dr "promoting".

My meds are free I live in England, mental hospital still only has CITALOPRAM , there run on a tight budget ,but my GP practice has Escitalopram so I get it from them . I tried citalopram it was a bad med for me but escitalopram hit the spot at only 10mg with no foggy head . There is no promotion of meds at the hospital and gp because its NHS, the promotion is at the chemist that supply the meds on your script, they battle over generic supplies price with the reps .

Lexapro is a modified, newer version of Celexa. They took
Celexa and slightly altered checmically, making it more potent. They are two different meds and are available by their brand names and now as generics. I've taken both and Lexapro is a much stronger SSRI than Celexa, Prozac or Paxil even.

My psychiatrist ONLY prescribes generics for everything unless you ask for the brand name. He believes they are equally good and doesn't want patients spending the extra money. He is big in the research field and believes strongly that meds and therapy are the best combo. He also did a study that tracked the progress of patients with mild depression who were treated with meds and another group of patients who were not treated with meds. Both groups went into remission at about the same rate. So I guess that shows its a toss up as to whether people, thosr with mild depression at least, may be better off waiting to try meds.

Were both group also participating in therapy?

No, the non med group was a non treatment group (on a waiting list for treatment, mostly). So, those who improved basically went into spontaneous remission. Of course this is probably because their life events improved and their depression got better. I forget the exact numbers, but it was significant enough enough to show that doctors shouldn't jump the gun with med treatment for mild depression. For some people, no treatment was as effective.

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Found this one, to add to the discussion. Alternative Treatments for Depression | Psych Central Professional

I thought all depressives took omega fish oil and vitamins , that's not alternative that normal , can it make you bend like the girl in the avert get me me a bottle quick

People with mild depression should not be takeng powerful AD,S, they are for people really ill. Lexapro was developed because celexa had flaws to iron out. LEXAPRO is a cleaner med ,and given the choise for free most would go for a new vertion of an old med. in ENGLAND the generic escitalopram is near on the same price has the real Lexapro , that's why the hospital uses citalopram you can get a truck full for $10, LEXAPRO its far different SUPERIOR MED you carnt just change citaloprams name and claim its better if its not.lexapro is stronger so take less I take 10mg I used to take 40mg citalopram, what is the argument generics are mostly has good we said that.

There's no argument but it seemed there was some debate regarding celexa and lexapro. Although lexapro is technically a "cleaner" version if celexa, it is not the same med nor is it a replacement for celexa. They are both widely prescribed, at least in the US and overall, studies havent shown one to be better than the other. They are just different. Lexapro is more potent and takes less time to work and for some people that is an improvement.

I found Lexapro did work for anxiety but made my depression much worse. No motivation to do anything. Even holding a conversation required effort. I also had terrible brain zaps if I forgot even one dose. So I wouldnt call it a cleaner med, since i felt absolutely none of those side effects or withdrawal symptoms with Celexa. I guess the point is that people react differently to different meds. Celexa is great for some - I know some people who currentky take it for OCD and swear by it. On the othet hand my 12 year old aughter takes generic lexapro at a very low dose (10mg) for severe anger outbursts and severe anxiety and it works wonders. It just depends.

I cannot get my breath, you put a 12 year old on 10mg Lexapro ,
10 mg is not a low dose, its the standard dose read on (((((((
The recommended dose of Lexapro is 10 mg once daily. A fixed-dose trial of Lexapro demonstrated the effectiveness of both 10 mg and 20 mg of Lexapro, but failed to demonstrate a greater benefit of 20 mg over 10 mg [see Clinical Studies]. If the dose is increased to 20 mg, this should occur after a minimum of one week.))))))))) I am sorry but to put a child on AD,S AT 12 deeply upsets me, i mean no offence but I would rather not no anymore thanks

/hasn't caught up with the thread yet. I'm really happy that people feel so strongly about this

Nope, not I. No vitamins here.

sewerrats, that is part of the debate in this country. My town, pediatrician and numerous others, push for med free childhood. On the other hand, one of my employees, who lives in an impoverished community, has a son with a dx of bipolar, and boy, doesn't she ever have a struggle with her son's school administration, at times, because she has chosen med free for him, although, for some time, he was placed on meds. He's about 14 now. I was one of the few people in her life, that not only supported her decision, as a mom, but shared information that we are given in my town.
He was acting out, one day, in school, and she brought this to my attention, as the school administration was insistent that he go back on meds, and I asked, her, knowing a little about what had been going on in his life, if this wasn't an environmental reaction? As in, was he holding in rage over a girl or was someone ticking him off. And soon after this talk, he clocked the kid, in his class. Yeah, it was over environment, not his 'bipolar' dx.
He's still not back on meds. I told her, to tell the admin, that that's what they get paid for, to deal with at risk children, like himself....

I digress, and certainly, don't want to flame a debate, but to inform, someone on the other side of the Pond what it's like over here...

I understand the strong feelings you might have about this, but the decision to put my daughter on meds was very difficult for our family and was a last resort. I am not a fan of medicating children. I live in a city where there is a very famous childrens bipolar clinic. When I hear about the meds these kids are on I am horrified. We are talking 5 year olds on Risperdal. And that is not uncommon, by the way. So that will give you a little perspective on the pediatric psychopharm industry in the US, at least on the East Coast. Lexspro is mild by comparison.

That being said, I think you shoud try being less quick to judge the decisions of me or anyone else on this forum. No one really knows a person's or family's struggle until you have actually walked in their shoes. Maybe you know we know people with similar situations who have made different choices and have done well. But remember that, at least in my case, there are multiple factors involved that shape the decisions we make. There is just no way to compare. So especially on forums like this - a mental health forum no less - I think we should reserve passing judgement on anyone's choices. Whether you agree or not doesnt matter. What does matter is that you be respectful and supportive, not critical or condescending.

The information on that site seems dated too. There is no longer any doubt that exercise works. And most people now turn to mindfulness rather than meditation. Meditation is a form on mindfulness but you don't have to do meditation in order to practice mindfulness.

And on the subject of supplements they are pretty positive overdoing vitamins is a bad idea. (I always wondered about the "500%" of daily allowance labels.) My doctor checks my levels. As a mental health patient you probably need to supplement fish oil, vitamin d but as with everything else it would be best to get tested and do some research. There is definitely different grades of fish oil.

Side note... My T told me today one of her patients goes to a dr that was willing to work with her to come off meds. He checked her for allergies and found some food allergies. Then he worked with her on nutritional changes. Looking up!

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I was not being condescending, you said 10mg Lexapro was a small dose it is not, and I thought you would at least no the power of your childes med. I am supportive of your child she is the one on meds for anger issues and anxiety, a common thing in kids till they find out who they are. My son had plenty of them he stole cars , fighting , disrespectful, he hated everyone and every thing, he never took a med and now has 3 kids, and forever telling me how much he loves me. I have been bipolar since birth , never took a med till 35 year , bought up a family, good job and new house. I believe if I had taken meds and don't forget this is bipolar not anger issues I would not have done any of the things I have achieved. First 10mg Lexapro will mess with your weight, it will mess with your sex life, now on a 12 year old that just coming into puberty it could have a worse affect on there mental state. Who is to say now you have started your daughter on meds she will be able to stop. I am respectful to your daughter and I wish her all the best, I don't have to agree with you I am supporting your daughter . I hope you made the right call I really do I don't have to agree with you to be on your side, but I have been in hospital with kids who were medicated young and later turned to hard drugs. I don't make this up I have seen a lot in hospital and that is what upsets me . GOOD LUCK and I wish your daughter the best.

I spent a year in a psych hospital at the age of 12 and have been on meds since. I have been on every AD out there. Some are bad, some are excellent. Some people get messed up on them. Some others are helped. In the case of autism spectrum disorders, SSRIs can be a life saver. Most of the time the symptoms dont tell the whole story...the etiology of the symptoms is what helps you decide on treatment.

Many kids present with the same symptoms -anger, violence etc., but they can not all be treated the same way. My daughter has a dx of Aspergers, OCD and ODD and is under the close care of excellent psychiatrists. She has plenty of support in her life, so she is lucky. I've been on all the SSRIs myself and know the side effects like the back of my hand.

Many people with autism disorders are on it (or prozac) and they are a miracle med for some of these people. Have you heard of Temple Grandin? She has written and lectured about SSRIs and how they made her life bearable. They treat the sensory symptoms of Autism, and in turn the other behaviors get better. My daughter wants to take her Lexapro. She said she knows it works because her skin doesn't hurt anymore. That's how she had to live. She was miserable all day because her clothes, any clothes, "hurt her skin". She doesn't have elaborate routines in order to leave the house everyday anymore either. Routines that made her, her sister and brother 40 minutes late for school and me late for work. She feels calmer, but her affect is still there- she hasnt become a zombie. She still has a lot of difficulty, and meds won't fix them. What they will do is make the worst symptoms less pronounced so she can tolerated them and try to live life.

I got the dosage wrong, I apologize. I used to take 20mg of lexapro myself and forgot. Regardless of my mistake her dosage was decided upon slowly and carefully. She started at 2.5 mg last year and slowly titrated up to 10mg. You cant presume to know everything about a subject because of your own personal experience. I am glad your son came out of his problems well without meds, that is great. But many others don't and some of these people need help that we just can't provide.

I wasn't going to reply because nobody can completely know when they don't live with this everyday and part of having choices and experts that matter is about making informed decisions. It sounds like you are.

But... Temple Grandin recommends small amount to older children. What I read didn't define that but I sense that they are at least ending puberty. She also says to look at behavior and deal with that first. Meds only treat symptoms. That is probably good advice for anyone. Itchy skin could be an allergy. Grandin did not take medication until her 30's. I'm not saying you haven't considered these things or worked on nutrition. Just wanted to clarify.

IMHO, I think that diagnosis of alcoholism or mood disorders don't make sense before young adult when hormones are raging. That said it isn't just a family problem. Temple Grandin talks about the different ways people process and learn. We don't support different learning styles. We are loosing creative people (necessary for things like science and math) to premature diagnosis and meds. This is really sad. The family is responding to a highly difficult situation that they are not necessarily responsible.

The first time I heard Grandin speak about visual thinking a bell went off in my head. She was describing how I think. I just don't experience many of the other signs. I'd like my 13 year old cousin to watch it and get his opinion.

Just to reiterate, I'm not judging. I haven't walked in your own shoes. These are my thoughts alone.

The skin issue is sensory not an allergy. It is very common with people on the spectrum, children or not. We've tried everything under the sun, these symptoms did not show up all of a sudden but have been evident since the age of 3 or 4. Temple Grandin noted meds for older kids because she didn't use them until she was a bit older. She was speaking from her own experience, not medical expertise. That and no responsible adult is going to tell people to medicate their kids. That is personal and purely case by case decision. Changing diet, natural remedies or checking for allergies is far too simplistic. Those are the FIRST things I would look into. I only go further once those options are exhausted.

Mood disorders absolutely can be diagnosed before adulthood. Personality disorders and schizophrenia are not. And with addiction? A child can be addicted to something just like an adult. The question lies with whether the diagnosis is accurate and that's where a competent seasoned professional can hopefully help.

Regarding treatment, again that is subjective and highly personal. Many things are manageable for some, many are not. If I am going to make a choice of a residential school or medication for my child (at a yonger age) I'll pick meds first. There would be nothing worse for her sense of self than to have your parents relinquish your care to someone else. There are lots of kids in very expensive residential treatment program. They get lots of therapy and meds...and much stronger ones than lexapro. I would have a harder time with that.

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I tried to emphasize that I do think it is a choice and I have not walked in your shoes.

One could say that how a teenager is behaving is like an addiction or mood disorder but I feel it is wrong to diagnose them until they are in their 20's. There's a significant difference there. Once you are diagnosed you face a lifetime sigma and possibly incorrectly administered meds.

This is an example of how powerful nutrition can be. The field is only about 100 years old so choosing the right diet is almost a crapshoot right now. That doesn't mean it couldn't be affective.

My Family's Story: Nutrition, Mental Illness & Chronic Pain ? Nourished Kitchen

In this post there is also nutrition mentioned. I want to point out before hand that her story is dramatic and not the rule. Monica also does not rule out meds. That is very important.

A Memoir From Before, During and After Psychiatric Drugs ? Beyond Meds