[Hellion]

Started taking the 10 mg 3 days ago, so far feels kind of like adderall(which I took in the past not prescribed) simular sort of stimulant feeling. And I keep catching myself grinding my teeth more than one should....maybe its not the best medication for me to take everyday, but I'll wait it out a bit and just watch my anxiety to make sure it doesn't go through the roof maybe chew on something since my jaw is rather sore from the grinding.

[sewerrats]

Originally Posted by Hellion

Started taking the 10 mg 3 days ago, so far feels kind of like adderall(which I took in the past not prescribed) simular sort of stimulant feeling. And I keep catching myself grinding my teeth more than one should....maybe its not the best medication for me to take everyday, but I'll wait it out a bit and just watch my anxiety to make sure it doesn't go through the roof maybe chew on something since my jaw is rather sore from the grinding.

10 mg is a low dose 20mg in the normal

Sounds like me. I did get used to it. This was years ago.,, she might have put me on 20 or 10, idk. Anyway I actually bumped myself down because I felt like I was on a bunch of speed and I couldn't afford not to sleep.

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[Hellion]

Originally Posted by sewerrats

10 mg is a low dose 20mg in the normal

Yes, and its already having significant effects...haven't noticed any anti-depressant effects, kind of a weird drug so far, still just having amphetamine like effects. I know 20mg is the normal dose but if I took that much I don't think I'd sleep at all.

[sewerrats]

Originally Posted by Hellion

Yes, and its already having significant effects...haven't noticed any anti-depressant effects, kind of a weird drug so far, still just having amphetamine like effects. I know 20mg is the normal dose but if I took that much I don't think I'd sleep at all.

WELL all I can say its not having the right effect at 10mg, It may push through at 20mg if you have been on 10mg at least a week worth a try or if 10mg to much ditch them med. I just read you top post 3 days and your worried about side effects post in 2 weeks see if still there.

[Altered Moment]

Pretty odd that it would have an amphetamine like effect on Lexapro. Are you bi polar?

If you are going to take them you have to take them everyday. It is not an as needed thing with Lexapro.

[ChangingMyMind]

I agree with zinco. It's odd to have an amphetamine effect on Celexa. Celexa made me extremely tired.

[Altered Moment]

Sometimes if you are bi polar SSRI's can trigger mania.

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by zinco14532323

Pretty odd that it would have an amphetamine like effect on Lexapro. Are you bi polar?

If you are going to take them you have to take them everyday. It is not an as needed thing with Lexapro.

Is lexapro another name for celexa?...But yeah its a AD so of course I know I have to take it everyday.

As far as being bi-polar I am not diagnosed with it, so i don't think so...and I don't get the mania so I think that sort of disqualifies me from that mental illness. As far as I know I just have aspergers syndrome, reoccuring major depression, anxiety and PTSD.

[sewerrats]

Originally Posted by Hellion

Is lexapro another name for celexa?...But yeah its a AD so of course I know I have to take it everyday.

As far as being bi-polar I am not diagnosed with it, so i don't think so...and I don't get the mania so I think that sort of disqualifies me from that mental illness. As far as I know I just have aspergers syndrome, reoccuring major depression, anxiety and PTSD.

LEXAPRO IS NOT CELEXA. same firm different make up. celexa
bad for me Lexapro was good.

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by sewerrats

LEXAPRO IS NOT CELEXA. same firm different make up. celexa
bad for me Lexapro was good.

Oh well then now I am confused about the post i responded to...

[sewerrats]

Originally Posted by Hellion

Oh well then now I am confused about the post i responded to...

You only take half the dose with Lexapro than with celexa . Lexapro 10-20 mg Celexa 20-40mg

I don't buy a hypo manic reaction to an AD is bipolar or they could morph that into a test. But I do believe too many manic episodes on an AD can make you bipolar. I do not think I would wait two weeks. There are too many choices and you really don't want that to become a diag. You could cut back to 5 for a little bit or call your dr and switch. Just food for thought.

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[Hellion]

Originally Posted by Michanne

I don't buy a hypo manic reaction to an AD is bipolar or they could morph that into a test. But I do believe too many manic episodes on an AD can make you bipolar. I do not think I would wait two weeks. There are too many choices and you really don't want that to become a diag. You could cut back to 5 for a little bit or call your dr and switch. Just food for thought.

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5 doesn't do anything at all, but yeah I will talk to my psychaitrist like today or monday....probably can't get in till monday or some other time next week. I really don't feel like I am in any kind of mania state though at this point.

[Altered Moment]

Originally Posted by Michanne

I don't buy a hypo manic reaction to an AD is bipolar or they could morph that into a test. But I do believe too many manic episodes on an AD can make you bipolar. I do not think I would wait two weeks. There are too many choices and you really don't want that to become a diag. You could cut back to 5 for a little bit or call your dr and switch. Just food for thought.
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Well hard for me to argue as I am kind of having a hypo manic reaction to Fetzima. Really hard for me to say if it hypomania or something else. I cut out caffeine yesterday and that made a huge difference. Much much calmer now.

I think AD's causing full blown mania in MDD only is very rare. Hypomania that balances out, yes. As for it causing someone to become bi polar I don't buy it.

[Altered Moment]

Originally Posted by sewerrats

LEXAPRO IS NOT CELEXA. same firm different make up. celexa
bad for me Lexapro was good.

We could have the same argument we did about Pristiq and Effexor and active metabolites and the S isomer and R isomer and all that.

At first I didn't believe there was any difference between Pristiq and Effexor but after doing a lot reading I think there is. There is not much info on Pristiq because it is so new. I believe it mainly because people respond so much differently to them both.

There are more differences between Lexapro and Celexa then Pristiq and Effexor. Celexa has an R isomer. Now I was always taught in biology that an R isomer doesn't have any effect in the body. All sterioisomer amino acids and proteins are L and not R in biology. Its a bizzare fact of nature that they are all L. Celexa has S and R. In Lexapro they removed the R and forrest claims the R caused more side effects and Lexapro was a more fast acting cleaner (less side effects) version of Celexa.

There must be a difference though because as SR says people react totally different to the two.

Lexapro: The Son of Celexa | Psych Central Professional

Given this pooled analysis data, I predict that Forest reps will rankly speculate that, since Lexapro seems to work a bit faster than Celexa, maybe it works faster than all the other SSRIs. One problem with these results involves dosing. The average comparator dose of Celexa was only 28.9 mg., a dose that many clinicians would consider sub-optimal.

Nonetheless, it is hard to criticize an SSRI that is as well tolerated as placebo at effective antidepressant doses, and which causes essentially no drug-drug interactions.

TCR VERDICT:Big bucks for Forest.

Psyche Centrals verdict is always big bucks for the drug company.

[sewerrats]

Originally Posted by zinco14532323

We could have the same argument we did about Pristiq and Effexor and active metabolites and the S isomer and R isomer and all that.

At first I didn't believe there was any difference between Pristiq and Effexor but after doing a lot reading I think there is. There is not much info on Pristiq because it is so new. I believe it mainly because people respond so much differently to them both.

There are more differences between Lexapro and Celexa then Pristiq and Effexor. Celexa has an R isomer. Now I was always taught in biology that an R isomer doesn't have any effect in the body. All sterioisomer amino acids and proteins are L and not R in biology. Its a bizzare fact of nature that they are all L. Celexa has S and R. In Lexapro they removed the R and forrest claims the R caused more side effects and Lexapro was a more fast acting cleaner (less side effects) version of Celexa.

There must be a difference though because as SR says people react totally different to the two.

Lexapro: The Son of Celexa | Psych Central Professional


Psyche Centrals verdict is always big bucks for the drug company.

A P DOC said once SAME MED DIFFERENT BOX, All I know is Lexapro worked and celexa didn't AND THE PDOC he worked at the mental hospital they didn't script Lexarpo to expencive, so he lied his arse off.

Originally Posted by zinco14532323

Well hard for me to argue as I am kind of having a hypo manic reaction to Fetzima. Really hard for me to say if it hypomania or something else. I cut out caffeine yesterday and that made a huge difference. Much much calmer now.


I think AD's causing full blown mania in MDD only is very rare. Hypomania that balances out, yes. As for it causing someone to become bi polar I don't buy it.

It's called kindling. I heard about it years ago. If you haven't had symptoms of bipolar and you are manic on an AD how on earth can they say you have a predilection? That always struck me as an excuse. You usually need to go a couple-few rounds of manic episodes but every time is closer.

http://www.bipolarcentral.com/articl...-Disorder.html


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[Altered Moment]

Originally Posted by sewerrats

A P DOC said once SAME MED DIFFERENT BOX, All I know is Lexapro worked and celexa didn't AND THE PDOC he worked at the mental hospital they didn't script Lexarpo to expencive, so he lied his arse off.

Lots of Docs say there is no difference between Pristiq and Effexor, and no difference between Celexa and Lexapro. My pdoc wanted me on Pristiq instead of Effexor because he thought it was better. I was ready to argue with him about it because of the costs difference but I decided to go with Fetzima (I don't know how I am gonna pay for that. I hope I can get on a drug company program) so it wasn't worth having the argument.

We all know from our own experience there is a difference so case closed.

[sewerrats]

Originally Posted by Hellion

5 doesn't do anything at all, but yeah I will talk to my psychaitrist like today or monday....probably can't get in till monday or some other time next week. I really don't feel like I am in any kind of mania state though at this point.

Celexa being the weaker of the 2, less than 5mg would be useless , about 1 mg of Lexapro ??????? how would you find it with a microscope. I started Celexa at 20mg , the way we see it is hit it full on. And if after 2weeks it to much lower it , if to low higher it .///////////// simple

[Altered Moment]

Originally Posted by Michanne

It's called kindling. I heard about it years ago. If you haven't had symptoms of bipolar and you are manic on an AD how on earth can they say you have a predilection? That always struck me as an excuse. You usually need to go a couple-few rounds of manic episodes but every time is closer.

Kindling Effect' on Bipolar Disorder

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I think it has long been known that manic episodes get worse over time and with age. I had a great aunt who had it and this was true for her. Back then the only thing they used was Lithium. Way before the current AD'a and mood stabilizers were used. So I think kindling was around long before the current Ad's and mood stabilizers.

Yet another opinion of late is that the pattern is triggered by the use of antidepressants, at least in those patients using both antidepressants and mood stabilization medications at the same time; yet this theory is still surrounded by controversy.

That is just an opinion and the article really gives no evidence that AD's can cause bi polar disease. Induce a little hypo mania in MDD, sure. Trigger mania in people who have real bi polar, sure. But not AD's causing someone to develop bi polar. And if the opinion is true they are talking about people who already have bi polar and not MDD.

Originally Posted by zinco14532323

I think it has long been known that manic episodes get worse over time and with age. I had a great aunt who had it and this was true for her. Back then the only thing they used was Lithium. Way before the current AD'a and mood stabilizers were used. So I think kindling was around long before the current Ad's and mood stabilizers.





That is just an opinion and the article really gives no evidence that AD's can cause bi polar disease. Induce a little hypo mania in MDD, sure. Trigger mania in people who have real bi polar, sure. But not AD's causing someone to develop bi polar. And if the opinion is true they are talking about people who already have bi polar and not MDD.

I buy that ADs can cause bipolar which is really a misnomer depending on whether you think there is >always< a genetic component. The "symptoms of" is better. Hopefully in that case stopping the AD solves the problem... One hopes anyway. I think diagnosing somebody as bipolar because they became manic on any med is malpractice. I believe the DSM differentiates the two also.

Soap box: Believing a person has bipolar has way too many consequences from economic to emotional and physical health to make a diagnosis like that and they do it everyday!

Think about it... If you are saying the reason they might go manic on a med is they either are bipolar or have a predilection you are making a grand statement. If that could actually be proven we should have a foolproof test for the diagnosis of bipolar! And which bipolar are you talking about... There are so many varieties these days.

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[sewerrats]

Originally Posted by Michanne

I buy that ADs can cause bipolar which is really a misnomer depending on whether you think there is >always< a genetic component. The "symptoms of" is better. Hopefully in that case stopping the AD solves the problem... One hopes anyway. I think diagnosing somebody as bipolar because they became manic on any med is malpractice. I believe the DSM differentiates the two also.

Soap box: Believing a person has bipolar has way too many consequences from economic to emotional and physical health to make a diagnosis like that and they do it everyday!

Think about it... If you are saying the reason they might go manic on a med is they either are bipolar or have a predilection you are making a grand statement. If that could actually be proven we should have a foolproof test for the diagnosis of bipolar! And which bipolar are you talking about... There are so many varieties these days.

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True I no a guy had1 manic period 30 years ago it lasted a week, They labelled him bipolar , and been on a shed load of meds since. yet he has never had another manic period in 30 years.

Originally Posted by sewerrats

True I no a guy had1 manic period 30 years ago it lasted a week, They labelled him bipolar , and been on a shed load of meds since. yet he has never had another manic period in 30 years.

That's the kind of thing that makes me mad at the whole industry. What could he have accomplished otherwise?

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[Altered Moment]

I am not insensitive to the issue. I was mis diagnosed with bi polar for 7 years because of a full blown meth withdrawal induce manic episode that lasted over a year. I don't think it effected me economically, emotionally, or physically. The worse of it was I took Tegretol for 7 years and didn't need to. I personally don't care that much about how they label me, I just want effective treatment. But you need the right diagnosis for the right treatment.

I agree it is way over diagnosed. There is bi polar I, and bi polar II, and this treatment induced "manic switching" you are talking about. They say that people with "manic switching" are distinct from MDD patients. And that AD induced manic switching should be included in the bi polar spectrum in the DSMV. I don't think it is in there yet. There is just I and II. I was tagged bi polar II for awhile even after they took away the bi polar I. So was my ex wife and may still be. It is bi polar II that is way over diagnosed. I don't think they really change the treatment strategy though so who cares. I could be bi polar II, its possible. I get hypo mania. I got to the point where I just self diagnosed and went in and told them I was MDD. My people told me you can't do that!!! You have to let the expert do it. And I said I know way more about it than the expert!!! I have lived it. Kind of wish I would have stuck with bi polar II and went in and told them that instead because that would help my disability case more. Maybe I will sui attempt just so I can fit into one of their little boxes.

I just pointed out that the article you referenced talks about kindling. A phenomenon known about long before AD's and mood stabilziers were around. The same is true for depression. The more you have and the deeper you get the more likely you are to have them in the future. An ingrained pattern takes hold. My sister in law has told me that because of this I have to break the pattern. I said OK how in the hell am I supposed to do that....you tell me. You would say this is caused by meds I call BS.

Antidepressant-Induced Mania Similar to Bipolar Disorder | Psych Central News

The study “supports the proposal that antidepressant-induced switching may represent an acceleration of the natural course of bipolar disorder,” said Zeliha Tunca, M.D., of the Dokuz Eylul University School of Medicine, Turkey and colleagues.

The researchers conclude: “The findings of this study confirm that treatment-induced mania is a clinical phenomenon that belongs within the bipolar spectrum rather than a coincidental treatment complication, and that it should be placed under ‘bipolar disorders’ in future classification systems.”

The new research appears in the Journal of Affective Disorders.