Benzo's are better for me than sleeping pills

ZehR · Apr 13, 2014, 09:21 PM

I read a study on this site about how long term benzos cause brain damage. I'm not surprised because even though I have a bad short term memory, it was a lot worse when I was taking the clonazepam. And I mean a lot worse which is why I wouldn't take it long term.

Benzos make my hyper. I think it's because im so excited that the anxiety is gone and it causes more inhibition so I would do more impulsive things.

Altered Moment · Apr 13, 2014, 10:06 PM

I take it for anxiety not sleep. Ambien and Lunesta don't work for me at all for some odd reason. I take Remeron for sleep.

My recommendation for sleep to pierro for sleep is Remeron or trazadone and not a benzo. I don't think I would use a benzo for sleep. It would take to high a dose.

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rockgal · Apr 13, 2014, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Rags

Well, one HUGE thing to consider is diagnosis. I've been bipolar since I was a teen, and had severe GAD/OCD since I was a little kid. One of the probs with benzos is that they cause mood swings. Ack. Bad news for me, because my biggest challenge is battling mixed states (depression/agitation/anxiety/mania all happening at once).

No, I have no more side effects from the k-pin. Those stopped years ago. The bad effects come only when I drop the dose, even by a tiny sliver. Starts out with weird brain zaps - onto flu-like symptoms - onto puking - onto HORRIBLE fear/psychosis/agitated anxiety...yes, at that time death IS preferable. Anyone seen the movie "Candy"? The part where they're trying to w/d from the heroin? Well, the k-pin w/d is, for me, that and worse because of the psychotic s-hit.

The reason I need to go off, or at least cut back, is because I'm experiencing what's known as "paradoxical anxiety" - i.e., the k-pin is causing me to feel anxious....it's kind of like working in reverse, due to damage to brain receptors from being on the k-pin for so many years.

I've seen about 30 p-docs in my life. Out of those, about 12 have told me I need to decrease/go off of the k-pin. They say this: "Decrease it very slowly over a few months. You will feel worse at first, but eventually you'll stabilize." Yeah. Right. The "feel worse" means, for me a psychotic-suicidal-depressed-anxious-agitated-INSANITY. When I've asked the parade of p-docs for a med to HELP me come off the k-pin they tell me there "isn't really one".

Welcome to 20 years on a benzo

Anyway, I'm getting down even thinking about this. So have a good evening, you all

Ouch. That sounds hideous. It does sound like the Klonopin is not doing you any favors at this point. I know benzo receptors are pretty specific, but I'm really surprised there isn't *something* that can help like pregabalin or one of the other anticonvulsants. That's a real need for folks like you caught in a bad place. Maybe I'll poke around on PubMed in case someone has published something useful on the topic recently. You've been fighting your illness for a long time too, so no wonder you are worn down. Sorry this thread has made you bummed out. I didn't intend to make it vexing for you - just wanted both sides out there since the benzo route has, fortunately, been reasonably kind to me.

rockgal · Apr 13, 2014, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockgal

Ouch. That sounds hideous. It does sound like the Klonopin is not doing you any favors at this point. I know benzo receptors are pretty specific, but I'm really surprised there isn't *something* that can help like pregabalin or one of the other anticonvulsants. That's a real need for folks like you caught in a bad place. Maybe I'll poke around on PubMed in case someone has published something useful on the topic recently. You've been fighting your illness for a long time too, so no wonder you are worn down. Sorry this thread has made you bummed out. I didn't intend to make it vexing for you - just wanted both sides out there since the benzo route has, fortunately, been reasonably kind to me.

And good evening to you, too!

11:07 PM

Hey, thanks so much rockgal. if you happen to find anything on PubMed, let me know. I think I mentioned that I am very pro-medication (I believe more people would benefit by being on meds than are). I just feel...well...pretty screwed over by psychiatry with regard to the benzo thing. The whole story is that I was put on klonopin when it was still in clinical trials. I live near the University of California, Davis which is a major medical school. When I heard about their Psych dept. doing a clinical trial for a new "benzodiazapine" I joined up (I was seeing a p-doc, so I just had to sign an agreement to start the medication). P-doc assured me that the medication (clonazapam) was a miracle drug for anxiety. I took it exactly as directed, etc., etc., and the years flew by and here I am. Now all the p-docs have to say is that I should "come off" the k-pin. Yeah, thanks a lot. Even heroin addicts have methadone and subutex. But for those of us who have this awful benzo problem, tough luck. I'm really, really scared. Anyway....thanks for all your input and for listening. I truly hope and pray that NO ONE on this thread who takes benzos EVER has a big problem with them. I swear, I wouldn't wish this on anyone.
Brightest blessings~
sr

Altered Moment · Apr 13, 2014, 11:54 PM

I lived near UC Davis for many years. Excellent medical center and school. I wanted to go there for bio chem.

Well they were a miracle drug for anxiety and still are, and they haven't come up with squat that works as good. It is so unfortunate they have these effects.

Apr 14, 2014, 12:59 AM

zinco, that is true. It seems like some kind of med could be created that combines the good of benzo without the potentially negative effects. With all the psych meds there are, it sure seems like there's room for better meds...meds that don't cause weight gain, for example.

sewerrats · Apr 14, 2014, 04:08 AM

benzos for sleep. mmmmmmmmmm 1 they give nightmares. 2 you wake up every 2 hours. 3 you have a headache in the morning . I take my last 2mg of lorazapan at 8pm that takes a while to take effect after years , then I watch tv till 2am and go to bed tired . From say 10pm the benzos have mellowed me enough to sleep later BUT TOOK THE ENGE OFF ANXIETY SO I MAY RELAX A LITTLE, SOMTHING MUCH NEEDED . Take them before bed and you get no benefit , you will sleep but miss the chill out bit a benzo is for. Would you sooner have a rest from the pounding anxiety before going to bed. Or lie curled in a ball in bed waiting for something to happen.

Altered Moment · Apr 14, 2014, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Rags

zinco, that is true. It seems like some kind of med could be created that combines the good of benzo without the potentially negative effects. With all the psych meds there are, it sure seems like there's room for better meds...meds that don't cause weight gain, for example.

It seems they have given up on psyche meds in general all together. The big pharma companies don't seem to be investing anything in it. The newer AD's seem to be coming from smaller companies like one in Japan. They definitely have done nothing for anxiety which is surprising given the number of people who suffer from it. Just Buspar.

That leaves the universities, hospitals, NIMH, and small firms to do the basic research that will lead to new drugs.

Apr 14, 2014, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zinco14532323

It seems they have given up on psyche meds in general all together. The big pharma companies don't seem to be investing anything in it. The newer AD's seem to be coming from smaller companies like one in Japan. They definitely have done nothing for anxiety which is surprising given the number of people who suffer from it. Just Buspar.

That leaves the universities, hospitals, NIMH, and small firms to do the basic research that will lead to new drugs.

Wow. That is REALLY scary. *shakes head* Hopefully, somehow the situation will EVENTUALLY work towards better options for psych care.

Altered Moment · Apr 14, 2014, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Rags

Wow. That is REALLY scary. *shakes head* Hopefully, somehow the situation will EVENTUALLY work towards better options for psych care.

Hopefully smaller companies can get funding to fill in the void if the big boys won't do it. I should check out the companies that are making Fetzima, Brintellex, and Viidryl and see how they got funded. I know one of them was a japanese company but that is all I know. maybe the japanese gov. funded them.

Pierro · Apr 14, 2014, 03:12 PM

To be honest with you all, at the moment I could not care less if I got brain damage, as lack of sleep is driving me up the walls anyway. I am married with 3 children, I work in the day and husband works in the evening. Its tough going and dont know how much longer I can hold out. Thanks for all of your comments, I do appreciate them. I think theres only one way out for me. Sorry...

Lauliza · Apr 14, 2014, 05:30 PM

In the US doctors appear to be more willing to prescribe benzo's than in Europe for some reason. From what my pdoc has written and told me, they are usually very well tolerated and no more addictive than ambien or any other number of sleeping pills. Ambien, for me was a nightmare. I had blocks of time that just left my mind. Very scary. A friend used to take it and would often sleep drive. He honestly had no memory of how he got to work in the morning. This to me sounds far more dangerous than any benzo out there. These sleeping meds must be more profitable, it's the only reasonable explanation.

Anyway, aside from my rant, one thing you can ask your doctor for is Trazedone. It is an antidepressant but is more commonly used now as a sleep aid. It does work and I have not found it to be addictive at all. You can feel groggy in the morning, so you may need extra time to wake up. I think another poster mentioned low dose Serequel, which I've heard works well too.

You'd be better off seeing a pdoc for this since general doctors have very limited knowledge. And a pdoc would not tell you to just try to "relax".

healingme4me · Apr 14, 2014, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierro

To be honest with you all, at the moment I could not care less if I got brain damage, as lack of sleep is driving me up the walls anyway. I am married with 3 children, I work in the day and husband works in the evening. Its tough going and dont know how much longer I can hold out. Thanks for all of your comments, I do appreciate them. I think theres only one way out for me. Sorry...

Won't your dr. try something different, where Lunesta isn't working? Sometimes, it's a matter of trial and error. I've had my ambien script since 2009/2010. I get it doesn't work for everyone, but it's a hypnotic, and when I need to take one, it's effective.

Telling an anxiety patient to 'just relax', is like telling a bird to stop chirping. I've not had use for my sleeping pills in a few Weeks, but I've been crawling to bed purely physically spent, these days.

Exhaustion from not sleeping is pure hades. What else, gets your mind to settle, so your body can rest?

((((Pierro))))

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-jimi- · Apr 14, 2014, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pierro

To be honest with you all, at the moment I could not care less if I got brain damage, as lack of sleep is driving me up the walls anyway. I am married with 3 children, I work in the day and husband works in the evening. Its tough going and dont know how much longer I can hold out. Thanks for all of your comments, I do appreciate them. I think theres only one way out for me. Sorry...

Sleeping and eating is so basic to everything else, but sometimes people act like we don't need to sleep. I don't understand that. One of the most common triggers for psychiatric episodes is insomnia and not sleeping also plays a big part with onset of physical illness.

I feel like some people here try to shame or scare us. We know benzos come with risks. But lets face it, all meds come with risks. Should we just toughen it out, then I don't feel a need for meds at all.... If you have a med that works for you, please don't let anyone in here make you feel bad for using it.

I'm so over being shamed for taking medication.

Altered Moment · Apr 14, 2014, 06:29 PM

Remeron instead of benzo's for sleep

-jimi- · Apr 14, 2014, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Rags

zinco, that is true. It seems like some kind of med could be created that combines the good of benzo without the potentially negative effects. With all the psych meds there are, it sure seems like there's room for better meds...meds that don't cause weight gain, for example.

No one wants to make a med to take PRN. Therefore every new med that comes out is a daily med. There is no huge profit in meds that are only taken as needed. Because of that we're ending up taking things like Seroquel daily for sleep or daily antidepressants for anxiety. I do think a safer alternative to benzos is possible, there is no money in it.

Altered Moment · Apr 14, 2014, 06:39 PM

Quote:

I do think a safer alternative to benzos is possible, there is no money in it.

I don't understand how there would be no money in it given the tons of people who suffer from anxiety even if it was only PNR. I just really don't understand it.

Altered Moment · Apr 14, 2014, 07:03 PM

Sure can't find much on new research. The issue is not dead though. Some promising research. I am gonna go the pot route. Didn't work for depression but I bet it will for anxiety.

Vanderbilt scientists discover potential new way to treat anxiety | Research News @ Vanderbilt | Vanderbilt University

Quote:

Endocannabinoids are natural signaling molecules that activate cannabinoid receptors in the brain, the same receptors turned on by the active ingredient in marijuana.

Haha that part is interesting and maybe points to pot working for anxiety. Or maybe CBD instead on THC. Maybe we should all dump the benzo's and smoke pot. I can sure see how pot would work on anxiety. There is a long thread on it around here somewhere.

German research points way to better anxiety drug | Reuters

Quote:

The new compound, XBD173, appears to avoid these problems by targeting a different biological "don't panic" button, making it a good potential candidate for use as a safe and fast-acting anxiety pill.

NIMH · Light Switches Brain Pathway On-and-Off to Dissect How Anxiety Works

Quote:

Researchers, supported in part by NIMH, used a virus, genetic engineering and fiber-optics to control the pathway in the brain's fear center with millisecond precision.

"Our findings reveal how balanced antagonistic brain pathways are continuously regulating anxiety," explained Karl Deisseroth, M.D., Ph.D., of Stanford University, a practicing psychiatrist as well as a neuroscientist. "We have pinpointed an anxiety-quelling pathway and demonstrated a way to control it that may hold promise for new types of anti-anxiety treatments."

Stanford scientists discover anti-anxiety circuit in brain region considered the seat of fear - Office of Communications & Public Affairs - Stanford University School of Medicine

Promising New Target for Anxiety-Reducing Drugs

Quote:

As a result, he said, a worldwide search is on for less disruptive alternatives. Working with colleagues at the University of California at San Francisco, Hodge now may have good news about that search. "What we've done is to identify a potential new target in the brain for new, less problematic anxiety-reducing medications of the future," Hodge said.

Here is my favorite.
Marijuana Research Paves Way For New Anti-Anxiety Drug - TruthOnPot.com

healingme4me · Apr 14, 2014, 07:08 PM

Not sure, how that will help Pierro sleep, but interesting discussion..

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Altered Moment · Apr 14, 2014, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by healingme4me

Not sure, how that will help Pierro sleep, but interesting discussion..

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Well the right strain of pot can sure help you sleep.

I was replying to the discussion on no new anxiety meds, and all we have is benzo's.

I am still going with Remeron for Pierro.

healingme4me · Apr 14, 2014, 07:18 PM

Just seems a bit hijacked, is my impression.

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Altered Moment · Apr 14, 2014, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by healingme4me

Just seems a bit hijacked, is my impression.

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More got off track maybe. Started with using benzo's for sleep and then the whole issue of the dangers of benzo's then anxiety then no new meds for anxiety.......drift.

Seems to happen a lot and I am probably very guilty of it.

Apr 14, 2014, 08:45 PM

Sometimes the most interesting and informative threads are the ones that take a journey throughout various lands.

I know plenty of people who use mj for sleep.

sewerrats · Apr 15, 2014, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zinco14532323

Remeron instead of benzo's for sleep

WWWWWWWWWhat and get fat while you sleep .I would sooner stay awake. I went up 2 jean sizes in the same 2 weeks . you only have to look at the box to get fat, It is a front line anorexic med in ENGLAND but the docs don't tell the patient .

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