[DonW]

New member here -- howdy, everyone.

Wondering if anyone has seen improvement/healing over time after quitting SSRIs. Does the brain heal itself from dependence on meds? The docs tell me neurotransmitters can regenerate but it can take 9-12 months. That's a long time to endure depression, but it's a familiar battle (I've taken SSRIs, mostly Paxil, for half my life -- now 45).

I got off Paxil 5 months ago, gradually and under careful supervision (made it through the brain zaps and all that crap). Initially I was doing fine but after about 3 months the depression returned. I am trying to be tough (I come from a family of stoics) but also do lots of self-care (exercise, time in nature, support from friends, etc.) and see my psychiatrist regularly (he usually just agrees with whatever I want to do). I'm trying to stick it out another few months (summer weather should help) but it's hard.

I long bought into the mentality that "you just have to accept lifelong medication, it's a chemical imbalance like diabetes." But I've never been comfortable with the medicalized model of what is at least in part an existential/spiritual issue (who wouldn't be depressed in today's world?!). It freaks me out how many people take these heavily-advertised meds. Plus I'm tired of the side effects, and never intended a temporary support to become permanent. And (like everyone here) I'm concerned about the unknown long-term effects.

Does anyone who's "been there, done that" have some perspective on life after antidepressants?

[Elana05]

Hi DonW,

I'm sorry to hear this has been a hard time, working through this.
It sounds like you are taking care of yourself by resting, exercising and knowing when to reach out for support... I have heard of the regeneration of hippocampal cells in the brain (healing from depression) but this is with the use of antidepressants. (This reference I'm thinking of was somewhere in the PBS series This Emotional Life.) Were you suffering side effects caused by the AD's? I guess my response would be that I have not heard of any long term issues with taking antidepressants, while depression (untreated) is clearly shown to have harmful effects on the body.
There are new technologies however, have you considered a treatment like TMS?

[DonW]

Thanks, Elana. I guess I was hoping that I would have experienced some healing during all these years of antidepressant use so that I could gradually get off them. I feel worse now than before I ever took them, and am about to conclude I have no choice but to resume. Apparently if you take them looking for short-term relief, you are frequently signing on for life. It seems like kind of a devil's bargain.

[Martina]

Well, I'm Bipolar, not just depressed. And no matter what I do, I WILL be medicated for the rest of my life. As far as I understand, nothing will ever change that.

The fact that you tried to get off antidepressants, and do all the "right" things to keep you well, and yet your depression still returned.....doesn't that tell you something? Yes, most of depression is psychological, but you can't discount the fact that maybe, just maybe, your body is messed up.

I wish it weren't like this, but it is.

[venusss]

DonW, you may want to look into this blog http://bipolarblast.wordpress.com/withdrawal-101/

I think it provides some answers for you (the author seems to have simmilar perspective as you).

[DonW]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. I've come across some interesting books musing about whether you can be the "real" you while on meds. "Is It Me or my Meds" by David Karp is great. I was not impressed with Dr. Peter Breggin, who is a hard-core anti-meds ideologue (I think he's influenced by the Scientologists).

I am actually allegedly bipolar too (though the only manic episodes I've had were while taking 60mg Paxil), and I am sticking with the mood stabilizers but supposedly SSRI's aren't a great idea for us. I'm hanging on while the weather's nice and see if I can make it to a year... then will reassess, and if I have to keep taking them, so be it. Meantime (pardon the bluntness) I will try to take advantage of the opportunity to be normally sexual! :-)

[DonW]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. Ups and downs, but mostly doing better since my first post.

Venus, I will check out the blog. I've read some interesting books on the eternal question of whether you're "the real you" on meds. "Is It Me Or My Meds" by David Karp was good. Did not like Dr. Peter Breggin, a one-sided, anti-meds ideologue (if you research his history he has Scientology links).

I am allegedly bipolar too, only depression except for 2 manic episodes WHILE on 60mg Paxil (another reason to be suspicious of the stuff). Apparently the new wisdom is to avoid SSRI's with BP. I'm sticking with the mood stabilizers and trying to make it for a year before re-assessing. Spring certainly helps!

[sunrise]

Hi Don. Welcome to PC.

Originally Posted by DonW

Does the brain heal itself from dependence on meds? The docs tell me neurotransmitters can regenerate but it can take 9-12 months. That's a long time to endure depression, but it's a familiar battle

Don, that is my understanding too. When we take SSRIs, our brain adjusts and makes fewer components of the serotonin pathway, in an effort to respond to the "excess" serotonin our brain now has kicking around due to the SSRIs. When you stop taking the SSRI, you now don't have the extra serotonin due to no SSRI, plus your brain is in its down-regulated mode of making less serotonin components. Without the SSRI, your brain will need months to ramp up the serotonin system again. It needs time to respond to the absence of the drug. 9-12 months does not sound excessive. This is why it can be so hard for people who come off SSRIs. After coming off the drugs, they feel like crap and so go on the drugs again without having giving their brain time to ramp up production. You've been on those drugs a long time, Don. If you can make it through these rough months following discontinuation, your brain may indeed recover. Maybe you could meet with pdoc and set some sort of timetable, e.g., "if I don't start feeling better in 6 months, we will take the following actions..." If you are concerned for your safety, then don't wait for the 6 months. Safety first.

Originally Posted by DonW

But I've never been comfortable with the medicalized model of what is at least in part an existential/spiritual issue (who wouldn't be depressed in today's world?!).

I'm there with you on that. Do you have a psychotherapist? My impression of you (and I say this is a good sense!) is that existential/humanistic psychotherapy could really be helpful.

[DonW]

Excellent summary, Sunrise! I'm amazed that there is so little written/published about the phenomenon. I do have plans with the pdoc for an end date to the "experiment" but I'm trying to muster all my tools to stick it out.

In fact I have an appt. Monday with a humanistic therapist -- wish me luck!!

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by DonW

In fact I have an appt. Monday with a humanistic therapist -- wish me luck!!

Wonderful! I have seen a humanistic therapist for 4 years and am so much happier now. Good luck!

[ECHOES]

Hi Don, I wanted to chime in and say that I stopped Prozac after many years on it.
I wanted to see what I was like when I wasn't taking it. I didn't know that cold turkey wasn't a good idea, but I found out and went through the awful withdrawals.

Now I see a therapist only. I have seen therapists in the past, but this one is different. She is a psychodynamic/psychoanalytic therapist and the others weren't. I am more helped in realy and meaningful ways by therapy than I have been by medications.

I was going to ask if you were in therapy, and I see your latest post says you will be soon. I wish much success!

[andy013]

Hey Don, (sorry for bumping) I just wondered how you are doing now?

[DonW]

Hi again folks --

andy013, thanks for asking: I'm doing so-so... functioning but not really enjoying life. That's familiar from pre-meds days, so it's probably my "baseline" and I either have to live with it or take ADs.

I do very much like my new therapist -- but I've found over the years that therapy alone doesn't seem to impact my depression (though it's a good tool for insight and personal growth).

I have mixed feelings about this, but my inclination at this point (after 9 months off Paxil) is to go back on a relatively low dose. Or should I try to tough it out till 1 year??

A question for you guys about long-term side effects: I do find my memory isn't what it used to be -- more medium-term than either long- or short-term. Anyone else had that experience? Does it seem to improve once you go off the meds?

Thanks a lot!

Don

[RunningEagleRuns]

What are SSRI's?

[DonW]

SSRI = selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. These are the class of "newer" antidepressants that include Paxil, Prozac, Effexor, etc.

Originally Posted by RunningEagleRuns

What are SSRI's?

[fluffy1]

Hi Don, I know its been a while since you have posted but I just joined today and you were going thru exactly what I am going thru now.
I was hoping to hear back from you as to whether you 'stuck it out' for the year or had to go back on the AD's.
I have been on AD's for the most part of 14 years and have gotten myself off them 4 months ago. The brain zaps stopped a while ago now, but I dont seem to be able to deal with stress or anger very well anymore.
In the last few days I have started to feel depressed again( crying uncontrollably) and finding it difficult to care for my 2 year old.
I am determined to not go back on the meds because I believe that they have turned my mind to mush- in short my memory has all but gone which makes life very difficult.
Just hoping you or someone out there could tell me if things DO improve after 9-12 months? Does your brain learn to produce serotonin properly again after all that re-uptake inhibiting?
Has anyone succeeded?
Thanks for any replies.

[fluffy1]

Hi all, I am 5 months now after stopping my AD's after 14 years and just wanted to update on how things are going.
Brain zaps etc stopped a few months ago now which was a relief.
I seem quick to anger and dont handle stress as well as i used to but I think some of that is hormonal!
I have recently been reading a book called 'The mood cure' which I have found helpful. I have started taking a suppliment called DLPA which is an amino acid which your body uses to make endorphines ( feel good hormones). I can happily say that these suppliments have made me feel better than any other Ad ever has. I have been on them only for 2 weeks now and my fingers are crossed that things continue to improve.
Anyway, i hope this info helps someone.

[lltayloe]

I have a few suggestions I'm not sure if they will work for you but there may be some things you could try. There is a huge link between mood/mental health disorders and your gut. If your gut isn't balanced with the correct bacterial flora then you have a hard time digesting nutrients and could be prone to certain mental health issues. Most people that experience mental health issues which are related to unhealthy digestion also experience some form of constipation, diarrhea, ibs, etc. I would really look into the book 'Gut and Psychology Syndrome" it goes into detail about how to eat in order to re-balance gut flora. Also the book Nourishing Traditions, Primal Body Primal Mind, and anything of or related to the Westan A. Price foundation. All these teach you how to eat in order to get the most nutrition for brain health. There's a company called Neuroscience that utilizes neurotransmitter testing through urine and then reccomends supplements to rebuild neurotransmitters. Urinary neurotransmitter testing is highly controversial but I've heard of many people who seem to have good results with it. Also neurofeedback has had good results for many people

[sewerrats]

Originally Posted by DonW

SSRI = selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. These are the class of "newer" antidepressants that include Paxil, Prozac, Effexor, etc.

effexor is a srni if you spend a long time in metal termoil without meds, then you take then and your life becomes better, i see no reason to stop the med to return to turmoil . I have stopped a couple of times but i wish i hadnt, i have memory loss with ssri ADs but it better than liveing like a nuked frog all my life. I dont think they will ever heal your brain, opposite i would have thought it like slowing you brain, like driving a car with the brakes on.

[venusss]

Sewerrats... I know this is hard for you to picture. But there are peeps out there for whom pills aren't the helpful, hence they wanna toss 'em. They create aditional turmoil and mess.

So I think in such case tossing 'em is and finding other ways to deal is good... and possible.

[sewerrats]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

Sewerrats... I know this is hard for you to picture. But there are peeps out there for whom pills aren't the helpful, hence they wanna toss 'em. They create aditional turmoil and mess.

So I think in such case tossing 'em is and finding other ways to deal is good... and possible.

I said long term mental patient no a one off event,and if the pills do nothing of course you bin them, you dont take things that make you worse. bbbbbut if you are really mentally ill and have been years and your meds work, what other than suicide is the answer i would love you to tell me, you have all the sixteenth century answer,s.

[venusss]

there ARE other answers then suicide. And if somebody is asking how to get off... it's not working for them apparently. World is not gonna end if one person goes off meds. If anything, they may be better off... or can try something else.

and as for who is "really mentally ill" this is not a pissing contest. Stronger and more meds doesn't make you the winner here.

and as for sixteenth century answers... they are thousands years old actually and proven through thousands years. Beat some 12 week pharma trial. Whoopeee-dooo Prozac is how old? Few decades? We can talk in few centuries if it's really working that well. Now it's too early

[sewerrats]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

there ARE other answers then suicide. And if somebody is asking how to get off... it's not working for them apparently. World is not gonna end if one person goes off meds. If anything, they may be better off... or can try something else.

and as for who is "really mentally ill" this is not a pissing contest. Stronger and more meds doesn't make you the winner here.

and as for sixteenth century answers... they are thousands years old actually and proven through thousands years. Beat some 12 week pharma trial. Whoopeee-dooo Prozac is how old? Few decades? We can talk in few centuries if it's really working that well. Now it's too early

I thought you were all burnt at the stake, ???? seriously what are these other answers if a person is seriously mentaly ill, why do you keep bringing prozac into the threads , what is you illness i dont see any on your profile so whats the beef with meds if you never took them. Dont go defencive and insulting give some real answer,s for the abandonment of meds that have saved millions of lives, shoot from the hip with some real questions, and i will answer them so long has you answer your,s

[venusss]

I gave answers. You ignore them. How many times I need to repeat "eat well, mood foods, bach essense (worked marvelously for me...), herbal supplements (I posted a lot on them), getting spirituality right, getting life right, dealing with past traumas and issues, organizing your life to suit your needs, even if it means disappointing parents who wanted you to have white collar job..." I earlier on posted advice on coming off safely. Point is... you can do lot for yourself if the mainstream fails... and I speak for those for whom it fails

You can check where I post the most. I am bipolar, have various anxiety issues, unresolved grief issues, general problems with life, suspected borderline traits..., I suspect some trauma issues... Pretty much more issues National Geographic.

my beef with meds is that people expect universal answer from them... when it's just a mind altering substances... which is fine if you don't see it as anything more. My beef is when somebody posts "how to come off, **** don't work" and get "meds are wonderful" as reply. My beef is scare mongering with suicide if you don't do them.

[venusss]

and yes, we were burned on stake. Or medicated to shills in modern times doesn't make it right.

fortunatelly, now we can make money of wisdom and knowledge... that saves lifes too. As for the money... is fragment of what pharma makes.