[Brian37]

hey I forgot my Friday ramblings....sorry to all you weekly subscribers

anyway I did have a good 56 minute talk with my "gal" and here are the highlights

I did start right out by mentioning seeing her name in the paper about her divorce...and her reaction was very professional...she said I was the first to mention it and she was surprised more of her clients had not inquired about it....
In a nutshell her husband of 26 years has a massive gambling addiction...after years of trying to help him, even though he refused to get help, she threw in the towel...she did what most good mothers would do and tried to stay the course until her last son was out of school (He's 15), but decided his well being was not being served best by her husbands behavior...the divorce is not final. and she said if the man she married returns to her she would consider going back, but isnt counting on that to happen

She's moved out and loves being single and has no desire to find another man...she has her cats and her friends and honestly she looks better now....I mean there seems to be that proverbial weight lifted off her shoulders...

We spent most of the hour on the addiciton of gambling as well as my pornography addiction and how there are a few similarities...She said she may have to put a disclaimer on her door acknowledging the fact that shes a licensed family/marital counselor but in the process of getting a divorce!....
Anyway we talked more about my marriage and told her today was my wedding anniversary and wanted to know if we planned anything special....I remarked.....dinner, movie, sex......

I'll end on that note

peace everyone

[Mouse_]

I'm not sure if edible undies is what this forum is meant for? I guess if your looking for cheap frills theres better venues.

[Brian37]

Originally Posted by Mouse_

I'm not sure if edible undies is what this forum is meant for? I guess if your looking for cheap frills theres better venues.

oops...wasnt thinking

sorry for the mistake...I removed it

[pegasus]

I wonder if your T knows that youv'e just shared her life story here!

[Mouse_]

Originally Posted by Brian37

oops...wasnt thinking

sorry for the mistake...I removed it

Thank you, I appricate it.

[sunrise]

That's great that you had the divorce discussion with her, Brian. It sounds like she really shared a lot and it segueued into your own addiction issue.

She said she may have to put a disclaimer on her door acknowledging the fact that shes a licensed family/marital counselor but in the process of getting a divorce!

LOL. If that was the case, a good number of therapists would have to put up a similar disclaimer! My marriage and family therapist is divorced, as is the marriage and family therapist my daughter and I see for family therapy (who has also told us he is now in marriage therapy with his current wife), as is the therapist my daughter sees for individual therapy. It would be interesting to do a survey to see if marriage and family therapists are divorced at the same rate as the general public, a lower rate, or higher. (I wonder if it would be higher because they have enough self esteem to not "put up with crap" in their marriages, like I did.) When my own therapist told me he was divorced it was a big blow to me, as I thought he would have it all figured out and be able to maintain a marriage with all his relationship skills. But, as your own therapist told you, it takes two to tango.

Yeah, I missed the ramblings, but this was great to read too.

Oh, and Happy Anniversary! What movie are you seeing? I would like to see the Star Trek movie.

[ECHOES]

Happy Anniverary Brian !

I admire you for having the courage to bring up the divorce notice you saw. It affected you when you read it and you took it to therapy. Nice work

I'm wondering how her saying she "threw in the towel" regarding her marriage, due to her spouse's additction affected you. It might have been a little difficult hearing that.

[Brian37]

hearing her story makes you realize not everyone is as they appear

even professional therapists are not immune to life difficulties

Happy Anniversary, Brian

[imapatient]

Originally Posted by Brian37

I did start right out by mentioning seeing her name in the paper about her divorce...and her reaction was very professional...

In a nutshell her husband of 26 years has a massive gambling addiction...after years of trying to help him, even though he refused to get help, she threw in the towel...she did what most good mothers would do and tried to stay the course until her last son was out of school (He's 15), but decided his well being was not being served best by her husbands behavior...the divorce is not final. and she said if the man she married returns to her she would consider going back, but isnt counting on that to happen.....

Scenarios and T's and specific therapy relations differ, but her explanation doesn't sound professional to me. It sounds way over-board "too personal" of disclosure. T's differ in levels of disclosure and perhaps she thought your therapy and personal situation could benefit from knowing (some) particular details of her situation (addiction), but I see it as getting far too intimate in terms of personal, not professional, relations.

I can't imagine any T I've seen revealing so much or finding her level of sharing as appropriate. That was a hell of a lot of information and my comment is based merely on your summary of what must have been much more details, etc. from your description.

Wow.

[deliquesce]

nice work on bringing it up, brian. i don't think her level of sharing was inappropriate. or at least, it wouldn't be inappropriate for me. i like being given details - it helps me relate and see that they are human too.

hope you have a nice anniversary, brian.

[imapatient]

Originally Posted by deliquesce

nice work on bringing it up, brian. i don't think her level of sharing was inappropriate. or at least, it wouldn't be inappropriate for me. i like being given details - it helps me relate and see that they are human too.

hope you have a nice anniversary, brian.

As much as we might like it, that doesn't mean it's beneficial.

[MissCharlotte]

Hey Brian,

I didn't mind the "edible." It made me laugh!

I think you are brave to address the notice you saw in the news. I have been dying to ask my T for two years why he got divorced but I don't have the nerve.

Hmmmmm

[deliquesce]

Originally Posted by imapatient

As much as we might like it, that doesn't mean it's beneficial.

sorry - i should have used 'beneficial' - then .

it really does depend on the client, though, i would think. and also the Ts own comfort in disclosing that sort of stuff. some clients do not like therapist disclosure. some clients, even thought they might like it, would not find it beneficial. and then there are clients like me, who like it AND find it beneficial.

it sounds like Brian found it beneficial, yeah? so i dont really see the problem.

[Simcha]

Originally Posted by Brian37

hey I forgot my Friday ramblings....sorry to all you weekly subscribers

anyway I did have a good 56 minute talk with my "gal" and here are the highlights

I did start right out by mentioning seeing her name in the paper about her divorce...and her reaction was very professional...she said I was the first to mention it and she was surprised more of her clients had not inquired about it....
In a nutshell her husband of 26 years has a massive gambling addiction...after years of trying to help him, even though he refused to get help, she threw in the towel...she did what most good mothers would do and tried to stay the course until her last son was out of school (He's 15), but decided his well being was not being served best by her husbands behavior...the divorce is not final. and she said if the man she married returns to her she would consider going back, but isnt counting on that to happen

She's moved out and loves being single and has no desire to find another man...she has her cats and her friends and honestly she looks better now....I mean there seems to be that proverbial weight lifted off her shoulders...

We spent most of the hour on the addiciton of gambling as well as my pornography addiction and how there are a few similarities...She said she may have to put a disclaimer on her door acknowledging the fact that shes a licensed family/marital counselor but in the process of getting a divorce!....
Anyway we talked more about my marriage and told her today was my wedding anniversary and wanted to know if we planned anything special....I remarked.....dinner, movie, sex......

I'll end on that note

peace everyone

You can still practice medicine even if you have a heart disease, which is to say that all T's have their own personal lives and the personal problems inherent within them; it doesn't make them dysfunctional as a therapist.

Are you just sorta shocked that your T has her own issues?

[Simcha]

Originally Posted by Brian37

hearing her story makes you realize not everyone is as they appear

even professional therapists are not immune to life difficulties

Right on.
I would also like to say that if my T was immune to life difficulties, then he wouldn't be any help at all. How can he help if he hasn't ever had difficulty?

[imapatient]

Originally Posted by deliquesce

sorry - i should have used 'beneficial' - then .

it really does depend on the client, though, i would think. and also the Ts own comfort in disclosing that sort of stuff. some clients do not like therapist disclosure. some clients, even thought they might like it, would not find it beneficial. and then there are clients like me, who like it AND find it beneficial.

it sounds like Brian found it beneficial, yeah? so i dont really see the problem.

No, it might be harmful to Brian. It might be too early to know what the effect is, you know, beneficial or dis-beneficial. Disclosure is a long-term issue. It might make the relationship more intimate than is, um, helpful. It could be very counter-productive, esp. if it's a patient who has strong attachment issues with T's. But it all depends on the people, the issues, and their relationship. Just saying.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by imapatient

No, it might be harmful to Brian. It might be too early to know what the effect is, you know, beneficial or dis-beneficial. Disclosure is a long-term issue. It might make the relationship more intimate than is, um, helpful. It could be very counter-productive, esp. if it's a patient who has strong attachment issues with T's. But it all depends on the people, the issues, and their relationship. Just saying.

From how Brian has described his therapist, she sounds pretty competent. She knows Brian and "the issues, and their relationship" very well so is probably in a good position to know if disclosure would be beneficial to him. To me, it just sounds like this went really well, Brian! Good for you and good for your T. Although I know that self disclosure is not for every client (or for every T), self disclosure from my own T has made so much growth and healing possible. I wish you the same, Brian.

Hope your anniversary went well.

[ECHOES]

Bottom line is Brian is fine with T's disclosure

[imapatient]

But my comments are more about the therapy relationship dynamic in general, with Brian’s situation just an example.

Sunrise, maybe it was beneficial for you--so far, but that doesn't mean it is for everyone. And it's a long term thing that neither T nor patient usually recognize as it's going on. Whether a T is competent or not isn't something open to immediate interpretation--except in the negative, i.e. obviously inappropriate/illegal/unethical behavior. It, too, is a longer-term thing. I had a T for 14 years whom I thought was competent but in retrospect wasn't. She made major errors as other pros have told me now, post-hoc. I should've terminated many years earlier--perhaps 10. So should've she. I was greatly harmed by what I and others thought was a competent therapist.

The bottom line isn't whether a patient or Brian, here, is happy with it but whether it is healthy or not, short-term short long-term. I would've been happy to sleep with my T, but it wouldn't have been beneficial/would've been harmful in the long run, to use an extreme example in making the point.

The most common road to improper relations in therapy begins with improper or merely excessive therapist disclosure. It makes the relationship more personal on a more intimate level.

Disclosure isn't all bad. I've been helped tremendously by some self-disclosure from T's. Some. The situation described here sounds extreme to me to the point of perhaps being counter-productive and inappropriate. And we don't don't know the full pciture of how much and what dislosure there was.

Whether it helps in the end is likely not known now, nor may be unknowable.

Apologies Brian if I've seemed to pick on you in using your situation as an example and for hijacking this thread. Anything that would constitute inappropriate levels of self-disclosure would be with her, not you, were it to be the case.

[deliquesce]

impy, i appreciate what you are saying, but i disagree with the point that you are trying to make. you, of course, are talking from a place where you have seen the bad side and slippery slope of therapist disclosure leading to a hurtful relationship. but a lot (most) of therapist disclosure simply does not go that way. if Brian had somehow intimated that this was a frequent occurence, then we might have cause for concern - but his therapist only disclosed because he brought the subject up, gave a satisfying answer, and was then able to turn it back onto Brian's issues and use it as a space for further reflection. i dont see any problem here.

the point you are trying to make is analogous to saying that (for example) because a T has hugged a client in the past, and let to an improper relationship, that all Ts should not give hugs out to any clients of theirs. simply not true, as the many hug-receivers will attest.

[MissCharlotte]

Ima,

How would you define inappropriate? My T discloses a fair amount of stuff. When I don't want to know something I have told him, albeit not always in the moment. Some things I have stewed over but finally told him. It is through these "real" discussions that much of my growth has come because I see him as a real person with a real life and real experience.

Just wondering.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by imapatient

Sunrise, maybe it was beneficial for you--so far, but that doesn't mean it is for everyone.

imapatient, I know self disclosure is not for everyone and I never said it was. In fact, I said, "self disclosure is not for every client (or for every T)." Imapatient, it sounds like you are projecting from your past experiences in therapy. What may not have been helpful to you does not extend to all clients. Self disclosure is a recognized and respected element of several therapeutic approaches. I hope Brian can benefit from the healing that therapist self-disclosure can potentiate.

[Simcha]

Originally Posted by MissCharlotte

Ima,

How would you define inappropriate? My T discloses a fair amount of stuff. When I don't want to know something I have told him, albeit not always in the moment. Some things I have stewed over but finally told him. It is through these "real" discussions that much of my growth has come because I see him as a real person with a real life and real experience.

Just wondering.

Hey Charlotte

My thoughts are it's not disclosure that's inappropriate, but rather inappropriate disclosure. Inappropriate disclosure I would say depends on the patient and would have to be harmful to the patient.

If my T didn't have anything to say about himself, I'd really hate therapy.