[BlueMoon6]

I had my session with my t today. 2nd to the last one before her vacation. I wrote down responses and sentences from the many replies I got about her desk and my feelings (my printer isnt printing...but it did help to write it all out).

Wheb I got there I couldnt even get out of my car to go into the building. I went back and forth to the bathroom/waiting room a dozen times. I sat in the waiting room shaking. I calmed down by the time my t came out to tell me to come in.

I figured I'd start with something easy and told her that. I did and then I said I had something I wanted to talk about. I couldnt get the words out of my mouth. It wasnt that I was sitting there just staring at her, I kept trying to talk, but no words would come out. I felt terror. At moments I cried a little and I even started to laugh at myself at one point. Then my t started making guesses- she asked if it had something to do with her or with me. I said it was with her. She said she didnt think she had slighted me (????) in any way. I agreed. She said it had been 7 minutes since I had said I wanted to tell her something and I havent spoken in 7 minutes. I said I would rather be silence than say something. And then I said I felt the sessions were short (I figured as long as I was going to be in agony here, I might as well say that too) and she just nodded. Said something about wasting time because I was sitting there another 6 minutes in silence. Then I said it had to do with the desk. It felt like a barrier and I felt like I she was waaaay over there and I was waaay over here and I felt alone over here. So.....I said it and I felt much too vulnerable and that I had said too much. She said it was the way she does therapy. That it does create a boundry for her and for the patient. She doesnt have a couch on purpose. I tried to just listen but I couldnt focus. I felt like I had been swallowed by something big and black. My chest felt like there was a hole in it. I didnt dare cry. I think she knew how I felt but we didnt talk about that. I wish we had but the conversation turned to how my previous t did therapy (with a couch) and about what happened to me there. She explained further why she does it that way. She said (which I do not agree with) that it causes the patient to focus more on the t than on her own issues. Well, I can focus on her and my transference with or without the desk. I dont think the desk prevents me from doing that. I briefly said it but I was afraid to say more. We moved on to my food issue and the session was over. She even said something to me about not accomplishing much in the session today. I didnt know what I felt when I left. The last comment threw me. I think it was huge for me to mention the desk. She seems to have felt I spent too much time in silence.

When I walked to my car nothing seemed real. Even the trees seemed like plastic. This really could not have happened. I was convinced I would SI. I felt sui. I felt like I had to do something. I felt this horrible blackness take me over and I could barely breathe. I couldnt cry. I took the risk and I asked her for caring in a way she was not going to give. Even though she does show she cares in other ways and she did bring that up, it was a familiar feeling. I was not going to be loved in the way I needed. No matter what. So I am alone and no one really cares and there is no hope. I was able to drive home with very loud depression music.

After all of this, I still like her, I dont know if I would have stayed with a t like this if I knew so much would come up, but she knows me well, she cares more than anyone ever has about me and the only problem is that her style brings up so much pain for me. I imagined myself with a t who would be nurturing in the way I want and the longing for it gave me a heaviness in my chest. The I thought maybe I should just move on from this issue. I said to her all I really know about her is what I project onto her. And that is what I can work on- what I project onto her and what kind of pain I feel and why.

My kids were in a fun mood when I got home so I tried as hard as I could to be present. I was in and out. But in the end, I didnt SI and Im still alive and later on I went over to a friend's house (where my boys were playing), we split a bottle of wine and I told her the WHOLE story. (And she told me a similar stroy about her t) It was a nice connection and I feel somewhat better.

But now what? I am afraid I am going to be more reserved with her. Maybe she doesnt think much about transference? I find that hard to believe. I wonder what she thought went onn there today. Did she really think I wasted time talking about the desk? Did she understand how difficult it was for me to say it and why? I very much trust her insight and her understanding of me. I wonder if she understands how I experience the things she says to me and why I wanted to sit across from her. But can I say it? On the last session before her vacation?

Im sorry this is long and Im rambling on- the responses here gave me the courage to say what I felt/wanted and it was a big enough accomplishment.

[skeksi]

Oh, I'm sorry the session went so badly. You were brave enough to speak up, and your concerns weren't validated at all--in fact, the opposite.

I'm not trying to give advice (except, maybe I am), but it sounds like the way this T does therapy might not be right for you and what you need. That doesn't have to mean either of you is bad, it just means maybe you aren't right for each other.

[BlueMoon6]

Skeksi- You are right. It does sound like she might not be for me. It so scares me to leave her. I am attached to her even though she is tough. Maybe it is a familiar feeling to be attached to someone like her and that is why it brings up so much pain.

I feel like I owe her so much and she has shown caring in other ways. Maybe it is that I think she would be hurt if I left? Or that even if I am the one to leave any relationship I feel abandoned anyway.

[hangingon]

I have to agree with skeski. Sometimes therapists practice different styles than we personally need.
I was with my last T for a year before I finally decided to move on to a new one because of our lack of connection. She was not a bad T at all, I was able to work through some things with her, I just didn't feel any connection and I knew I needed that in order to really trust her.

Either decision you make is not going to be the easiest.
Sending hugs your way.
I am really sorry it didn't go the way you wanted it to and I can totally understand your hurt.
PS....I felt alot of similar emotions when I was leaving my last T.

[rainbow8]

((((((clk6)))))),

I wish I could give you a million s. First, you were SO brave in telling your T what you wanted to, even if it took you time to do it. You should be very proud of yourself!!

It was painful to read your T's responses to you. It sounded at first like she rejected everything you asked for, and put you down for being afraid to talk to her. I wanted to cry when I read it. I don't understand her reasons for having the desk as a boundary. I've been in therapy with 4 different kinds of Ts, and none of them sat behind a desk.

I am so sorry that your T reacted the way she did, but I agree that it's her style, and you aren't going to change her. She isn't going to be the nurturing T that you dream about. She's different.

I identify with your situation because my T is very similar in some respects though she doesn't sit behind a desk. She's strict and blunt, though. I can imagine her telling me how many minutes I've "wasted" just like yours did. I can also imagine her not understanding me and saying "I don't think I've slighted you." She's said things like that because she doesn't always "get" the way she hurts me with her bluntness.

Yet, like you, I've stayed with my T because I know how much she cares about me. It's her style, the way she does therapy, and she believes it is best for me, just like yours thinks it's best for you. My T is very intelligent and I trust her. Once we did something I wanted to do though she didn't want to. It was a visualization about an incident that happened to me when I was a child. I closed my eyes and my T led it. I was amazed at how different she sounded, how loving and concerned her voice was.

Afterward, she said that she does that with others, but because of my disorder, she did not want to do anything that would make me more dependent upon her. Well, it kind of backfired, but who knows how messed up I would be if she had been more nurturing?! She said she was "careful" with me.

I think that you have to see how you feel at your next session. If you are too angry with her about the way she reacted, maybe it's best that you find a new T. I know, in my case, I couldn't switch Ts because I was too attached to her in spite of her efforts for that NOT to happen.

Even if your T doesn't praise you for getting the words out, I know how hard it was for you, and you deserve to pat yourself on the back. You did your best, and that's all you could do. You can't make another person react the way you want them to. You can't change your T's style.

I hope you are okay tomorrow about this. Please post how you are doing.

[~EnlightenMe~]

((((((CLK6)))))) --

You were SOOOOO courageous to tell your T how you felt!!! That is a HUGE step - I'm SO proud of you! I know that your T's response wasn't what you wanted and that it really hurt. I understand your feelings of being rejected=(

I think that T sits behind the desk because of something to do with her personality, NOT yours. Maybe she feels exposed - maybe it's something from her past? And the way she reacted, telling you the time was a waste, well, I suspect that was her issue, too. T's sometimes have a lot of baggage and issues just like anyone else. The hope is that she recognizes this and that it doesn't get in the way of YOUR therapy. This was just one possible scenario I thought I'd throw out, it may or may not be the truth.

I think you should write out how you feel and give her the paper when you can't speak if you feel comfortable with this. I think you should tell her how you felt about her response to the desk situation and how much courage it took for you to say it. Tell her that you are trying to trust her and are telling her things that are difficult for you.

You're so strong!!!!! When do you see T next? Let us know what you plan to do=)

I'm here if you need me!

[BlueMoon6]

((((((clk6)))))),

I wish I could give you a million s. First, you were SO brave in telling your T what you wanted to, even if it took you time to do it. You should be very proud of yourself!!

You cant imagine how much that means to me when you tell me that. It felt impossible. And I can be a really chatty person and I couldnt get the words out. It was pure terror. I was staring at her trying to move my mouth but couldnt. I wonder if she realized what was going on. Or how it hurt.

It was painful to read your T's responses to you. It sounded at first like she rejected everything you asked for, and put you down for being afraid to talk to her. I wanted to cry when I read it. I don't understand her reasons for having the desk as a boundary. I've been in therapy with 4 different kinds of Ts, and none of them sat behind a desk.

It is painful. Truly. I felt like she was annoyed with my wasting of the therapy time. She sometimes seems annoyed with the way I cannnot handle things during the session. I know she believes I am a grown up with children, but I have very small child parts that need help. She must understand that, no?
I tried so hard to understand and shake my head yes, but I dont think a physical boundry like her big desk accomplishes the things she says it is there for. I can be very focused on her and wanting to know about her- desk or not.

I am so sorry that your T reacted the way she did, but I agree that it's her style, and you aren't going to change her. She isn't going to be the nurturing T that you dream about. She's different.

Youre right Im so so sad about that. So sad I want her to be my nurturing mommy.

I identify with your situation because my T is very similar in some respects though she doesn't sit behind a desk. She's strict and blunt, though. I can imagine her telling me how many minutes I've "wasted" just like yours did. I can also imagine her not understanding me and saying "I don't think I've slighted you." She's said things like that because she doesn't always "get" the way she hurts me with her bluntness.

Yes- I know your t sounds a lot like my t in that she believes a stronger boundry and tougher approach would be best for you. Its very difficult. It must hurt you terribly, too. How do deal with it?
What do you tell yourself about what she says?
And also have you ever told her how hurtful it is????

OMG yes Rainbow, OMG! She doesnt realize how much the bluntness hurts. How are you when you leave there after a "blunt" session? This was a blunt session for me. Now that I am alone again and my kids are (finally) asleep I am feeling again scared, sad and like no one cares about me. She gave me examples of how she cares for me. She said on fri when she saw it was me calling on the caller ID (she was done for the day, I guess) she picked up the phone. She always returns my calls right away. And she sees my family (for better or for worse..maybe its not the best idea). She does care. She puts time and thought into how to help me. I have told her things I never told anyone else. So I must trust her. But she doesnt show it in the way I need.

Yet, like you, I've stayed with my T because I know how much she cares about me. It's her style, the way she does therapy, and she believes it is best for me, just like yours thinks it's best for you. My T is very intelligent and I trust her.

You sound exactly like me. That is exactly how I feel. Exactly.

Once we did something I wanted to do though she didn't want to. It was a visualization about an incident that happened to me when I was a child. I closed my eyes and my T led it. I was amazed at how different she sounded, how loving and concerned her voice was.

Rainbow- I want to hear more about this. How did you get her to do the visualization? (I have to say my t wouldnt be doing something so "out-of-the-box") See....you saw a different side to her. So you know she can be that way. She can be soft, loving and concerned. I have experienced that loving voice from my t. Maybe I just crave re-loving from my childhood and I could never get enough. No t would ever be able to give enough of it to me. Im a bottomless pit for loving......

Afterward, she said that she does that with others, but because of my disorder, she did not want to do anything that would make me more dependent upon her.

OMG! The exact words my t says to me. Exact. Maybe its a bpd thing? It hurts.

Well, it kind of backfired, but who knows how messed up I would be if she had been more nurturing?! She said she was "careful" with me.

Please tell me what happened. Why did it backfire?

I think that you have to see how you feel at your next session. If you are too angry with her about the way she reacted, maybe it's best that you find a new T. I know, in my case, I couldn't switch Ts because I was too attached to her in spite of her efforts for that NOT to happen.

I am too attached to her. I do searches in my insurance for other t's but dont see anyone I want to see anyway. Im not angry really, Im hurt, disappointed, sad and feeling alone. Not angry (I dont think) it is not her fault she is this way. I am angry with myself I didnt have more foresight when I started with her. I knew these things from day 1.

Even if your T doesn't praise you for getting the words out, I know how hard it was for you, and you deserve to pat yourself on the back. You did your best, and that's all you could do. You can't make another person react the way you want them to. You can't change your T's style.

Your pat on the back feels so good. I know (even if she doesnt) what an accomplishment it was. I may even tell her- knowing I may be hurt by her lack of response to that. Youre right. I cant make her react the way I want her to.

I hope you are okay tomorrow about this. Please post how you are doing.

I will

[BlueMoon6]

((((((CLK6)))))) --

You were SOOOOO courageous to tell your T how you felt!!! That is a HUGE step - I'm SO proud of you! I know that your T's response wasn't what you wanted and that it really hurt. I understand your feelings of being rejected=(

Yes- it hurts, it hurts, it hurts. I want her to be somebody else

I think that T sits behind the desk because of something to do with her personality, NOT yours. Maybe she feels exposed - maybe it's something from her past? And the way she reacted, telling you the time was a waste, well, I suspect that was her issue, too.

You know, I have suspected this. That although she is smart and good at what she does, she may have an issue like that. I dont know what it is, but since not all t's are like this and she is, she must feel strongly the need for a barrier between her and the patient. Maybe she is an overly sensitive person and might over identify with her patient without strong boundries? I dont know, I dont want to even go there about what it could be. I have no idea. I dont understand why she didnt understand that what was going on inside my head was not at all a waste of time. Not a t all. I was getting up my strength and putting together my thoughts. And when she said 7 minutes had past I really thought it was about 30 seconds that I was quiet. No more. But that is another issue of mine, but I didnt even realize what what was going on.

T's sometimes have a lot of baggage and issues just like anyone else. The hope is that she recognizes this and that it doesn't get in the way of YOUR therapy. This was just one possible scenario I thought I'd throw out, it may or may not be the truth.

It may be the truth And not something that I didnt think about even before this last incident.

I think you should write out how you feel and give her the paper when you can't speak if you feel comfortable with this. I think you should tell her how you felt about her response to the desk situation and how much courage it took for you to say it. Tell her that you are trying to trust her and are telling her things that are difficult for you.

I will. Thursday is my last session before her vacation What a way to end. But I can do this. Without splitting a bottle of wine with a friend I will do this. I will gather my thoughts and tell her how difficult it was. I want to know what she thought of the last session and if she realizes how I felt.

You're so strong!!!!! When do you see T next? Let us know what you plan to do=)

Thursday. You cant imagie how much your response means to me and your hugs and words. I NEVER would have been able to say what I really was feeling and thinking without everyone here. Truly.

I'm here if you need me!

Thanks

[BlueMoon6]

OMG! A photo of me and my t next to her desk! See??? Isnt it a barrier?????

[~EnlightenMe~]

lolol-- Yes!!!!!!! It's a HUGE barrier. I deleted my post with that picture in it because I was going to add something more but I think it speaks for itself, lol.

[BlueMoon6]

LOL Antimatter! It looks like we are both up in the middle of the night.....I cant sleep.....
Arent you tired?

[Onzichtbaar]

Here are my thoughts:

40 minute sessions sound short. I see my T for 45 minute sessions and that is standard in my country. I know in the US 50 minutes seems to be the norm. That said, in France, for example, the norm is 30 minutes - so it varies from place to place. If you know that other therapists in your area offer longer sessions, then it is something peculiar.

There being a desk between you is also something I would say is unusual for 'talk therapy'. I've seen one psychiatrist who sat behind his desk and I imagined him as a knight in a fortified castle! It didn't matter as his persona was very friendly (hence he was a 'knight' and not a grumpy old man in the fortress) and the desk seemed quite small in relation to him.

I think the question is whether you can let these things go or whether they are simply too big and hurtful. If you were seeing a therapist who gave you 50 minutes and sat opposite you on a comfy chair or couch would it still not happen that you wished for more from her? I think almost everyone here must find things with their T that they wish were different - even those who offer hugs, give longer sessions and so on. I think that is just something with therapy - by its nature it is restricted and there are boundaries.

Those comments you mention your T making - these I think are the most hurtful. Telling you it was not a very useful session. My thought was: how should she know whether the session was helpful to YOU or not - surely that's something you will only really be able to tell afterward. Often I say to my T that I'm sorry I didn't use the time very well and his response is "time will tell whether it's been a helpful session or not. Sometimes sessions are just like that. Therapy is a messy business." If you want to sit for 5, 10 minutes in silence that's up to you. That's your right as a patient. I don't think it is fair that a T is critical like that. I can imagine that could put a lot of pressure on you to 'perform' and deliver a session that she is satisfied with, and all in a short space of time. That would make me anxious. In another post you said that she found you self-absorbed to want to have 2 sessions a week. Again, this made me feel angry as in effect she is labeling your needs as being unreasonable, selfish - it's one thing if in her opinion you are well enough to manage sessions on a once weekly basis but if you choose and find it beneficial to see her more frequently it seems insensitive and rude of a therapist to then describe you as self-absorbed.

These comments you describe, I think are the side of your T that you should be thinking the most about - how do these types of comments help you, how do they make you feel?

I think you deserve a therapist who treats you with respect and dignity. If you aren't receiving this from your current therapist, maybe it is important to consider finding another one.

Onzi

I agree with everyone else here. You showed enormous courage! And I'm sorry the response was so painfully short of what you needed / wanted. Boundaries are one thing, but insensitivity is another...

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by Antimatter

((((((CLK6)))))) --I think that T sits behind the desk because of something to do with her personality, NOT yours. Maybe she feels exposed - maybe it's something from her past? ........ T's sometimes have a lot of baggage and issues just like anyone else. The hope is that she recognizes this and that it doesn't get in the way of YOUR therapy.

I very much agree with this.
((((((((((CLK6))))))))) , you did so well telling her, even though it was so hard. Now you don't have to keep worrying about whether it's just a misperception on your part, now you know that you read her right, and that's worth something.
The responses she gave you may indicate that you'd be better matched with someone else (something that only you can know). Silence can say a lot, to someone who has ears to hear.

I just wanted to point out that afterwards you went to see a caring friend, got the whole story out, and received love and support in return. Please don't feel as if you are all alone in the world and no one cares. You are trying hard, that's all anyone can do. And yes I think you are brave!!

[Edahn]

Hi clk, I think I recognize your name from Answers. I think it's a tough call. What I hear is that you want to be comforted and she wants to maintain her authenticity and freedom. I think you should try and trust her on this one. You said yourself that she has her own way of showing care. I think she might be right about that and I think by trusting her, you will learn a lot. I think that by denying you safety, she is encouraging you to find safety within yourself, without her help. That is a powerful lesson and a wise move. I think you should try it.

I agree that 40 minutes is pretty short and I think you should be proud of yourself for speaking up. That's a big step. Regarding the desk, well, if you could leave it aside for now (pun not intended, heh) that would be good. Was it bothering you up until that point or did you just notice it?

All in all, I hear that things are actually going well. You stepped up about your needs and she stepped up about her needs. That is a real relationship, and yes, it's scary at first and makes you feel unsafe. But over time I think you'll come to enjoy it.

Good luck to you!

((((((((((((((((((clk))))))))))))))))))))

ACK! What a session...it sounds so so painful. I'm sorry.

I agree with Onzi above. The desk (thanks for posting a pic antimatter! lol) is one thing,and may just be part of her style that does or doesn't work for you. But being made to feel ashamed for having a hard time getting your words out, and being made to feel that your needs are unreasonable is hurtful.

I know that many T's come from a viewpoint of "wellness" instead of "illness", and believe that the needs we express and the things we struggle with are part of our innate drive towards wellness. It seems like your T sees everything as further proof of your "illness". People have needs and people struggle and those are signs that we are HUMAN, not signs that we are SICK. I see in your posts a lot of self-doubt and self-criticism about being "too bpd"...when it is obvious that you are a funny, caring person, and a good mom, and very intelligent, and SO MUCH MORE than a diagnosis code. Having needs...including a need to be close to someone...doesn't make you "too bpd". Period.

You were SO BRAVE to bring up the things that you did. And I love that you came home and were with your kids and spent time with a friend and posted here. Those are all good things.

Sending lots and lots of to you!

clk

Wow, were you ever brave! Especially to keep going, telling T more and more, even when you didn't like her reactions. Bravo to you!

I'm so sorry that you were hurt by your T's reactions. How long have you been in therapy with this T?

My T once told me that "silence is a gift" - I love that, even if I don't sit in silence that much with T. It's good to know that T welcomes that silence, she thinks it's sometimes important to sit and just let whatever I'm feeling come up - I struggle with being spontaneous and open to emotion like that. But I think it was crucial for you to have that silence before talking to your T about those issues, so good for you for taking that time, it was NOT wasted!

About the desk - I can understand what you mean about it being yet another boundary. I saw a T about 8 years ago, she sat behind a desk, and I sat on a loveseat across from the desk. I really didn't like the way that she sat behind the desk and took notes while we talked, but I didn't know any other way. With my T now, her desk is narrow and pushed up against a wall, so that T's chair and the sofa are only separated by a few feet - close enough that we both put our feet up on an ottoman in between us. I love that. It's such a different feeling, to have T closer with nothing in between us but that ottoman, which we're sharing. If you feel like you need that kind of connection with a T, and you're not getting it now, then I'd suggest that you try looking for another T. I can imagine how difficult that decision will be, though.

[BlueMoon6]

Here are my thoughts:

40 minute sessions sound short. I see my T for 45 minute sessions and that is standard in my country. I know in the US 50 minutes seems to be the norm. That said, in France, for example, the norm is 30 minutes - so it varies from place to place. If you know that other therapists in your area offer longer sessions, then it is something peculiar.

Hi Onzi. Thank you so much for your reply to me. I have been asking around- the 40 minute thing is short for my area. My friend's sessons are generally 50 min to 1 hour. I am not sure why her sessions are so short, I can only (give a good) guess.

There being a desk between you is also something I would say is unusual for 'talk therapy'. I've seen one psychiatrist who sat behind his desk and I imagined him as a knight in a fortified castle! It didn't matter as his persona was very friendly (hence he was a 'knight' and not a grumpy old man in the fortress) and the desk seemed quite small in relation to him.

I think it an unusual boundry. And this is a big, wide, wood desk. Its not a small, open kind of thing. Its more like a wide conference table.

I think the question is whether you can let these things go or whether they are simply too big and hurtful. If you were seeing a therapist who gave you 50 minutes and sat opposite you on a comfy chair or couch would it still not happen that you wished for more from her? I think almost everyone here must find things with their T that they wish were different - even those who offer hugs, give longer sessions and so on. I think that is just something with therapy - by its nature it is restricted and there are boundaries.

That is a very good point. Very good. I am sure if my t sat across from me and hugged me at then end of my session and was different in that way I would want more. And I would probably find something else. I might even be thinnking more abut her and her personal life etc. And want her more. My therapist even said this to me in the last (painful) session. That the theraoy would become more about her than me.

She is not new to this- she has been practicing for almost 30 years and is (probably) in hre mid-50's (or so). I see her as very experienced, smart and knowing what works for her and (at least some) of the patients she sees. I have seen people I know in the office and at least 1 person complaining about things I understand,too. Anyway, the boundries and restrictions on the relationship is painful to me. It may or may not be about the desk. Painful doesnt even describe it. I want something (more from her) and I may be able to learn something about myself from all of this. If she will work on it with me.

Those comments you mention your T making - these I think are the most hurtful. Telling you it was not a very useful session. My thought was: how should she know whether the session was helpful to YOU or not - surely that's something you will only really be able to tell afterward. Often I say to my T that I'm sorry I didn't use the time very well and his response is "time will tell whether it's been a helpful session or not. Sometimes sessions are just like that. Therapy is a messy business." If you want to sit for 5, 10 minutes in silence that's up to you. That's your right as a patient. I don't think it is fair that a T is critical like that. I can imagine that could put a lot of pressure on you to 'perform' and deliver a session that she is satisfied with, and all in a short space of time. That would make me anxious. In another post you said that she found you self-absorbed to want to have 2 sessions a week. Again, this made me feel angry as in effect she is labeling your needs as being unreasonable, selfish - it's one thing if in her opinion you are well enough to manage sessions on a once weekly basis but if you choose and find it beneficial to see her more frequently it seems insensitive and rude of a therapist to then describe you as self-absorbed.

Yes- These are the things I knew about her from day 1. It does make me anxious. I have to overlook the feeling that I feel like I have to perform and please her in a short period of time. I often feel judged there. It is the most difficult part. These things are what I have always felt must be her issues. But then again- she feels I shouldnt be so focused on myself. Maybe she is right? Maybe it is too much. But the sessions are short. I need to be in therapy but maybe she believes I need to talk once/wk and go out there and live it and be with my family. On the other hand, I dont have general problems with my family, I have deeper issues. But will all of the therapy help me to get better? I dont know. I still have symptoms that are getting to be bigger and bigger every week. My weight is way too low. And I can have anger outbursts in my house etc.

These comments you describe, I think are the side of your T that you should be thinking the most about - how do these types of comments help you, how do they make you feel?

They make me feel alone and hurt. And its not a new issue with her. And its a familiar feeling I had as a child.

I think you deserve a therapist who treats you with respect and dignity. If you aren't receiving this from your current therapist, maybe it is important to consider finding another one.

Its the issue I am thinking serioulsy about now. I just dont know what to do. Thanks you so much Onzi.

[BlueMoon6]

Hi clk, I think I recognize your name from Answers. I think it's a tough call. What I hear is that you want to be comforted and she wants to maintain her authenticity and freedom. I think you should try and trust her on this one. You said yourself that she has her own way of showing care. I think she might be right about that and I think by trusting her, you will learn a lot. I think that by denying you safety, she is encouraging you to find safety within yourself, without her help. That is a powerful lesson and a wise move. I think you should try it.

Hi Edahn- Thank you. Your reply is different from the other ones I have gotten and its something that I do consider. It is a tough call. Like I said before, she has been in practice for almost 30 yrs. She may know more about what she is doing than I think. She has said she doesnt want to baby me. Im not a kid either. She wants me to be confronted quickly and move along. Its just how much of it can I handle and is she being insensitive and hurting me too much? Would the attention and nurturing I crave get me better or just "coddle" me?

You are right about her- she does know how to maintain her authenticity and freedom at the same time. She definitely shows caring in her way and that caring I feel. I definitely feel she cares and is there for me whenever I need her (phone calls etc). I wonder if she is denying me safety purposely so that I can find safety within myself without her help. If that is the case, I can learn something very powerful from that. I dan do that if that is what she is teaching me. It just may be a wise move on her part (at least for me...but she does have the desk there for everyone). I can ask her that. It wont be easy, but it may be a question I can ask. And by trusting her experience and what she knows about me I can learn a lot. She doesnt seem to think much about me sitting on a couch talking to her. Especially with my previous history with another therapist.

I agree that 40 minutes is pretty short and I think you should be proud of yourself for speaking up. That's a big step. Regarding the desk, well, if you could leave it aside for now (pun not intended, heh) that would be good. Was it bothering you up until that point or did you just notice it?

It may be a good idea for me to leave the issue and talk about how it made me feel, what she thought of the session and bring up what you said about safety. Im glad I brought it up. I thought I would be able to do it in the future, but posting here gave me courage to say what I felt.

I noticed it from the very beginning and it bothered me then, but I wasnt attached to her or the therapy, but it bothered me more as I wanted more from her.

All in all, I hear that things are actually going well. You stepped up about your needs and she stepped up about her needs. That is a real relationship, and yes, it's scary at first and makes you feel unsafe. But over time I think you'll come to enjoy it.

You have given me a different perspective and I think you understand why I stay with her. Things actually are going well. I trust her more than anyone else I have ever known or worked with as a therapist. Her rudeness and abruptness are the reasons I would consider leaving. The confrontations may be too much for me, but she is a smart therapist who knows me very well. Better than I know myself. I just dont know if she comes from a place that will be helpful to me (in terms of seeing everything I do as symptoms of my bpd pathology). This is very new to me, she gave me this diagnosis about 8 or 9 mos ago and everything changed. That is her focus- how I can live with my personality as it is.

Good luck to you!

Thanks Edahn. Thank you so much

[BlueMoon6]

((((((((((((((((((clk))))))))))))))))))))

ACK! What a session...it sounds so so painful. I'm sorry.

Thanks

I agree with Onzi above. The desk (thanks for posting a pic antimatter! lol) is one thing,and may just be part of her style that does or doesn't work for you. But being made to feel ashamed for having a hard time getting your words out, and being made to feel that your needs are unreasonable is hurtful.

Being made to feel ashamed for having a hard time getting the words out and my needs are unreasonable has been a problem with her. She may just have an attitude that I can do better. That I can function better than that. She has said things like that to me. And then I feel like she doesnt realize that this is "functioning better" for me. I do feel like her expectaitons of me are higher than I can deliver. At least in that room with her. Outside of the room I do function much better.

I know that many T's come from a viewpoint of "wellness" instead of "illness", and believe that the needs we express and the things we struggle with are part of our innate drive towards wellness. It seems like your T sees everything as further proof of your "illness". People have needs and people struggle and those are signs that we are HUMAN, not signs that we are SICK. I see in your posts a lot of self-doubt and self-criticism about being "too bpd"...when it is obvious that you are a funny, caring person, and a good mom, and very intelligent, and SO MUCH MORE than a diagnosis code. Having needs...including a need to be close to someone...doesn't make you "too bpd". Period.

She has given me this different way of seeing myself since she told me that my personality is borderline. It does seem like it is form the point of view of illness. She told me to read everything about borderline. It all fits and I see in my daily life what I do and how I think and how I approach things/difficulties that this is the personality I have to deal with. I dont like it. I dont want it. I want to wake up in the morning in someone elses skin and see what it would be like to go through the day approaching life with a differently structured personality. But now that I know this, what do I do? Do I approach it like an illness? Should I be aware of how I react to things (in a pathological way)? I do doubt myself and am critical of myself for being this way. Was it my fault? Was it the things that happened to me when I was young?
I like the approach you are talking about- wellness. I would like to know how the hell I am going to get well......or see myself as well...
Thank you for your wonderful words. You know, I DO think my t thinks those things of me. I really do- she has told me these things many times. And I think its why she expects so much from me. But I do feel like I am acting "too bpd" and I get the feeling she sees it this way too. I am wondering now if this is the perspective that is best for me.

You were SO BRAVE to bring up the things that you did. And I love that you came home and were with your kids and spent time with a friend and posted here. Those are all good things.

OMG! Thanks Tree. It was difficult. The kind of thing I wouldnt have even considered doing. But I did it. I really did it and after feeling self-destructive at first, I really felt like I did what was honest. For me. Even if Ifelt like I took too much of a risk doing it.And I dont think for a second my t thinks I shouldnt have said it, she knows it was me being myself. Its going to be a weird last 40 minutes before her vacation on thursday.

Eh....its only for a 11 days . And we are taking the kids away for 3 days to the beach.....pray for beach weather! Its not always relaxing taking everyone away but at least I wont be thinking about therapy....fat chance!

Sending lots and lots of to you!

you too take care of your cold

[rainbow8]

((((((clk6))))))

I am so frustrated because I have stuff to do so I can't answer all yur questions now. I want to so badly!! Maybe our Ts are clones, lol. I know they aren't the same because we live in different places, and no desk. But otherwise.....

She said from the start she wasn't going to mother me, and she was going to talk to my "inner adult" when I once asked about inner child. She wanted to model "well" behavior and thought my "healthy" part could talk to my 'unhealthy" part.

She did not want to be the one to make me feel good, and for therapy to be about her. She's had about 25 years of experience, and she's very confident, very sure of herself. Very much her own person. Very caring. Calls me back always, usually within a couple of hours, or answers the phone when I call. Etc......

I will answer specifically when I can, this afternoon. Our Ts are so much alike. She says she may have hurt my feelings, but not my psyche.

More later....

[hangingon]

CLK,
Have you ever thought of just trying another T out once or twice, just to see how it goes?
If you want someone more warm and caring, which is perfectly ok to want then its ok to seek that out.

I had a hard time leaving my first T because I was thinking more about her and her feelings. I was worried she would feel bad ect because she was a good T. I just knew I needed something different, someone with a warmer demeanor ect...to get me to open up.

You have to remember therapy is about you and what you need, if your gut is telling you you need something more and you are not getting that, then I would go with your gut. Often times growing up we were taught not to do that, not to trust ourselves, now it's learning how to do that which is important.

This is not about your T, it's about you, you bore your soul and she didn't even acknowledge that, it sounds as if she is straight text book, just because you have a certain diagnosis doesn't mean everything has to be exactly the same. You are not a cookie cut out. You are your own person with your own indiviual needs.
Your T sounds as if she thought you were doing it as a way to manipulate her, which was not your intention at all, it's a need you have.

I don't think there is anything wrong with asking your T to come out from behind her desk, and shame on her for not doing that. It wasn't like you were asking her if you could sit in her lap. This is your therapy, not hers. I don't even know her but from hearing some of the comments she has made to you, I would almost want to give her the NPD diagnosis.

I would certainly write out your feelings about all the interactions in your last session and give it to her. If she can't at least acknowledge your feelings and leaves your feeling cruddy most everytime you leave then something is wrong.

Do you feel like you are attached to her more because she is consisitent, if nothing else, and thats something you are not used to?

[pachyderm]

I have a T who does not really fit the idea of my ideal T. I really would like to have more of one of those. But being able to, over time, express what I want to express, and maintain my particular point of view in spite of it not agreeing so much with the T, has, I think, actually helped me. And the T is maybe changing a bit in the process too. Maybe something like that would help you too. Maybe?

[BlueMoon6]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

((((((clk6))))))

I am so frustrated because I have stuff to do so I can't answer all yur questions now. I want to so badly!! Maybe our Ts are clones, lol. I know they aren't the same because we live in different places, and no desk. But otherwise.....

She said from the start she wasn't going to mother me, and she was going to talk to my "inner adult" when I once asked about inner child. She wanted to model "well" behavior and thought my "healthy" part could talk to my 'unhealthy" part.

She did not want to be the one to make me feel good, and for therapy to be about her. She's had about 25 years of experience, and she's very confident, very sure of herself. Very much her own person. Very caring. Calls me back always, usually within a couple of hours, or answers the phone when I call. Etc......

I will answer specifically when I can, this afternoon. Our Ts are so much alike. She says she may have hurt my feelings, but not my psyche.

More later....

Yes- Rainbow...thats exactly what she has said to me and what she is like. Very confident and sure of herself and what she is doing with me. Post when you are free and done with your stuff....I want to read what you have to say!

You know, she once said to me, "You know, (my name), I could have you leave here smiling every session. No problem." In other words, she could give me feel-good conversation and coddle me. But she doesnt think I'll get well that way. She confronts me instead even if its insensitive and even if I feel hurt. She figures I'll get over it. So I freak out and post here

[Confused_1982]

I agree with the others- maybe this T is just not the right fit for you. The relationshp we have with our Ts is so initmate that I think its really important you find a T who you feel on the same level with, and who can give you the care/nurturing that you want/need.

Very brave of you to tel her all those things- I dont think I would have the guts!