[deliquesce]

this thread could also work well in the spirituality forum, i think, but it is related to T so i though i'd put it here. but if the spirituality forum is one you usually avoid for whatever reason, then pls know that this will touch on it also. (just posting this in case it's a trigger for anyone) .

ok, question time:
just wondering if people believe in weird... connection-y stuff? intuitions? being able to read people? i dont even know what to call it.

i'm an exceeding analytical sort of person. i like things being concrete, having evidence, not dealing with ambiguity. if Austin-T tries to challenge me by putting forward something i dont like to hear, my first response is always "explain further. and give me examples that support what you're suggesting". it has become a running joke now.

so usually i would put things i can't explain down to coincidence e.g., you know when you're thinking about someone and they happen to call right then. i view things like horroscopes with suspicion, don't believe in numerology and all those "weird" things. sorry if it offends anyone, for me to say "weird", it's just that i dont really have the vocabulary even to express what those things are. tell me, and i'd be glad to switch to something less judgemental.

oh yeah. back on track deli (my posts always go on forever - sorry!). have been having way too many "coincidences" with Austin-T - to the point that it is freaking me out a bit, making my head spin. i sort of knew (?) certain things about him, even before i'd seen him, that i had no reason to believe. pdoc had just told me his name and that he really recommended him. but i had a really strong reaction to his name and sort of knew (i dont know how else to express it? i hate using the word 'know' when it isn' reasonable, justified belief) these things about him immediately.

i kind of brushed it off as me being silly, so i didnt mention it to pdoc. but i've since found out that all of those things really are true of Austin-T, and i'm a bit because a run of three is a bit weird to consider just coincidence. there are other things i have sensed very strongly since then (which have subsequently been verified), but because i have been in the room with Austin-T at those times, i can put it down to me just reading him visually and picking up one little cues.

i was going to bring this up with Austin-T last week, just suss out if he believed in other... stuff(?) and then i was like, "nah, deli, you're being an idiot - pull yourself together, stat!!". so we just had our session as usual. but after the session had finished, after i'd paid and everything, he very randomly said "oh, off the record, my friends bought me a one hour consultation with a clairvoyant when i got here (to australia) and i'm a really spiritual person so i like looking into things like that". and he told me about how this person, who had never met him before, kept telling him things no one else should have known. he told me becuase his mother's little maltese (my Cleo was a maltese dog too) had come back to visit him during the session along with his other family members who had passed away, but he found it so funny because it kept interrupting everyone else to get his attention.

i mumbled something about it being interesting that he'd brought it up, but didnt really go further. i left being a bit dazed, mixed in with equal amounts of .

can someone just give me a pat on the head and say this is all a bad dream/string of coincidence and not to think into it too much? it is an anathema to me to be even considering things which are strictly outside the box .

im seriously embarrassed that i'm even bringing this up . so please be kind (and offer alternatives that would better fit the facts)!

[Brightheart]

I'm not sure I'm a huge believer in mind reading per se, but I do believe very much in unconscious connection. Sometimes I feel a very strong "sense" of someone...even in writings or emails...that turn out to be correct. One time a close friend emailed me a 3 word note and I "heard" her upset tone...and I was right. I think maybe it is more about being "in tune" with others and connecting to your own senses so you can feel theirs. I used to do this during therapy sessions...try to feel a spiritual human connection with him. From a concrete standpoint, it could also be very much about being keenly observant and picking up on all of the hints. Not sure this would explain everything that went on with you and Austin-T, though...

Very interesting stuff, deli!

I met someone many years ago and instinctively knew that this person would end up being very important in my life, I felt drawn to her - 3 years later, she played a critical role in helping me get through a tough time.

Another story: I was playing a game with relatives, I forget the name, but everyone gets the title of a movie, and you make up what it's about. One person reads aloud everyone's answers and adds in the correct one, and everyone has to guess which is the correct one. My brother and I wrote down a description of a movie title that was almost word for word the same, it was so freaky and funny!

i am involved with dog rescue and sometimes at the events they have "pet psychics"...a few times i've gone to these..mostly for fun and because the $$ goes back to the group...well sometimes they have been eerily right on target. things that no one other than a select few would know.

i myself have a very good sense with animals (and some people). i can tell when animals are sick or dying or scared. they trust me. we tend to communicate with no words...i don't work on it it just happens.

i believe there is a bond like that between people...sometimes you connect more with others on different levels than you would with others. people are always asking here how did you pick your t...i always say gee i dropped my finger on a list and her name was under it.

it was fate...even she says it was fate that we are working together. our relationship is that strong and different. we get along and i guess it is much more than that from her other patients. i think it came at a time when she needed a challenge too...because i am ehr first patient with did...and she frequently thanks me for that because she says i don't know how much i have brought to her life.

i didn't call any other t...just her. she has been a t for probably 15 years...and has a set of standards. because of me she has adjusted those rules...and is seeing things differently. i think there is more give and take with us than maybe with her other patients.

so i think that sometimes things are meant to be sort of psychic or karma...or fate. i believe that you come across things on your journey on purpose...you may not notice them at the time (or ever) but they are there for a reason.

i don't question the connection (mechanics) but rather the steps in the path...i know its got to lead someplace good...i just hope its good good food and t shirts and its dog friendly!

[BlueMoon6]

I agree with Bether- That sometimes in the part of our minds that is not conscious to us we put together pieces of a puzzle and come up with an intuition. Non-verbal things or just various random things we know about someone and then when the pieces go together in some remote part of our brains, we "know" the whole puzzle. Its using our whole brains in a different, less concrete way. But to me it is still brain-power. Now, that said, how can two of my children have the same birthdays and one be born on my birthday. Thats not brain power. There are far too many coincidences in my life too to be called "coincidental." I dont know what it is. Or why but it does make me ask whether there is much more than meets the eye. I have gone thru various stage in my life being very spiritual and religion-hopping and thru very anti-religion phases. Eh...maybe it a borderline thing....Right now Im in the middle- skeptical, suspicious, but sort of open and willing if the right whatever presents itself. I like this subject...thanks Deli.........

[hangingon]

I have been in situations where I have been right on about people. One was a older man who had asked me if I would babysit his two small children. I was 12 at the time, it was the first time I had ever met him. Immediately something in me said not to trust this man, there was just something about him, though he didn't say anything that sounded suspicious.

I remember telling my mom that I didn't trust him but she wouldn't listen to me and still allowed him in our home. He became friends with my dad. A year later there were two reports of him being accused of abusing 2 young girls, my sister finally came forward later to admit that he had abused her as well. That one frustrates me a lot because if my mother had listened to me, things would have never happened to my little sister.

Another time my dad was working on a car with two of his friends. My mom, myself, and a friend were all watching them out the window. After about 10 minutes, I got this weird thought that the car was going to catch fire as they were working on it. I actually looked at my mom and my friend and told them both right then. No lie, not one minute later the car engine caught fire. They both looked at me, like how in the world did you know that was going to happen.

Another time, I was on my way with my sister and a friend to pay a surprise visit to another friend who I had not seen in a year because she moved over 8 hours away. While we were driving to go see her, I got this strong sensing that something was wrong with her. I started to pray for her because of that thought. When we got to her house, her husband told us that she was admited to the hospital the day before, that her appendix had ruptured and that she was really sick.

Ok...one more lol. I was 17 and having a really hard time, I remember listening to a religious radio station that played music. I was sitting there thinking I would love to hear the song "consider the lilies", I remember sort of praying to God for that. It was an older song and I had not heard it played on that station in a long, long time. I was in desperate need of a pick me up. Immediately after I had that thought, the song came on.

Not sure whether it's intuition, coincidence, or what, but it's quite interesting. I have never shared these things with my T though, wouldn't want her to think I was weird lol.....but they are true stories. I have always been very sensitive to reading people and situations, of course growing up in a rough situation made me more alert to those things as well.

hangingon, your post is so cool. i think these are really good examples of what would be real spiritual experiences from God because in all 4 situations it was for the benefit of helping people which is key. the first 3 were kind of huge, and i do believe were to show you to warn people and/or to pray for them as you did with your sick friend so they would be protected. the last example is just sweet as i think God knew you needed encouragement and he did that by answering your prayer by playing that song. sometimes God will tell me something just to encourage me when i'm down, so i don't give up, and other times it's for someone else's benefit to pray for them or tell them something that might encourage them.

one time God had told me to go to "a conference" and i was like ok God but there are like a million conferences i could possibly go to. a friend happened to tell me about one and i did sense that was the one. it was a humongous conference (30,000 people!) and i didn't want to fly there for 5 days and be all alone, so i asked my friend if she was going. she wanted to but couldn't afford it. she mentioned she would probably need $700 to go, so as we were on the phone i prayed for that for her. a week later as i'm at a retreat she calls me and said i HAD to tell you that the night before this couple each handed her a check for $350. she said they just knew God wanted them to do that for her but didn't even know what it was for. i couldn't believe it! so, we went to the conference together. it wasn't like God gave my friend $700 to go buy prada shoes...not that i don't drool over prada shoes! :P

having said all that i don't believe all spiritual knowledge is from a good source. so, it's good to consider what sort of spiritual practice is providing the info and if that lines up with your faith or worldview or whatever. if you think that a particular practice is "kosher" then fine, but if it is something your faith warns you against then stay away as it's probably tapping into some bad spiritual mojo. of course this is assuming something spiritual is really happening and it's not someone just making stuff up or giving vague spiritual advice to steal your money. i'm sure there are con artists in every spirituality or faith. also, some stuff is just people being savvy about human nature like that tv show 'the mentalist'.

anyway that's my 2 cents.

[Melbadaze]

I believe that sometimes if we'd had a life where we have felt powerless, then we tend to want to gain back control by believing we've tapped into some universal knowing, that we know things others don't, that we can foresee things that others can't, its like we want to put ourselfs on a spiritual mountain top and look down at the normal life and feel we are on top of that, it can't hurt us because we are spiritually special. Just my take on it, spiritually is more a gentle way of living rather then a side show clairvoyant type of things.

[Kiya]

Deli, i would say that "facts" change with what we "know" and learn. Remember, once it was "fact" that the world was flat, and those who thought it was round were laughed out of town or worse. Just go with it - it's all good. all ok. =)

I felt these things for years and have been searching for just what is this feeling. Just recently my T gave a book about this, Celestine Prophecy a few weeks ago and I have been searching my spiritual self ever since.

Synchronicity feels incredible!

I wrote this a month or so ago about me and my first T. My first T wasn't open to this stuff because of the empirical brain washing that he got in T school. Some thing can't be explained empirically yet, but it doesn't mean that some things aren't real, there needs to be more of a gray area.

Honoring It

Ignoring elephants
Enlightenment shinning
Magnetic weighting pull
Thrusting you back again

Empirical big knots
Running so fast away.
Calm mysterious force
Purgations of egos
Nothing left to explain.

Yearning towards violent
Attracting the wanting
Needing the obvious
So over and over
Awakening within.

Can't stop the mystical
Blind illuminating
Spiritual truth of what
Plato has always known.

[hangingon]

Originally Posted by Melbadaze

I believe that sometimes if we'd had a life where we have felt powerless, then we tend to want to gain back control by believing we've tapped into some universal knowing, that we know things others don't, that we can foresee things that others can't, its like we want to put ourselfs on a spiritual mountain top and look down at the normal life and feel we are on top of that, it can't hurt us because we are spiritually special. Just my take on it, spiritually is more a gentle way of living rather then a side show clairvoyant type of things.

LOL melba, I can understand what you are saying. Even some ministers who have been through alot claim that they are so humble ect. But personally, I don't believe the humble person even knows that they are humble, it's just the way they live.

As for my experiences, I haven't even shared them with my other friends, just the ones who were there with me at the time know. However, I do believe in God and I believe He can work in all different ways. I just don't give too much thought to those things when they happen, I just take them as they are in the moment. No special powers here lol.....

Originally Posted by Melbadaze

I believe that sometimes if we'd had a life where we have felt powerless, then we tend to want to gain back control by believing we've tapped into some universal knowing, that we know things others don't, that we can foresee things that others can't, its like we want to put ourselfs on a spiritual mountain top and look down at the normal life and feel we are on top of that, it can't hurt us because we are spiritually special. Just my take on it, spiritually is more a gentle way of living rather then a side show clairvoyant type of things.

i think that sometimes God works gently and sometimes he works quite powerfully. i see it as a both/and rather than an either/or. but it always needs to be done in humility and love. unfortunately, there are too many in my faith who turn it into quite the circus side show and that is soooooo not good. i do talk about the experiences i've had because i'm just so in awe of what God does. we can never take credit for what He does. i do believe people have spiritual gifts but they are just that--gifts--nothing we have in ourselves or can boast about. i also talk about my experiences because people need hope. if God can heal me or do the things he has in my life and others i know then he can do it for anyone. i don't ever want to see people suffer needlessly and modern medicine, therapy, etc can only do so much to help people. unfortunately, man can come up with myriad ways of distorting God's kind, loving and pure works.

[Melbadaze]

Hanging, I am pleased you believe in god. I believe everyone believes in something, But when people post on forums about supernatural powers, then my respect in their beliefs wains, sorry, just my feelings.

[deliquesce]

^ is that in reference to me, melba?

thanks to everyone who has replied so far . you've all given me different things to think about - as i've said, i havent really thought about this stuff in too much depth before.

i'll reply shortly, but first i need some dinner .

[Melbadaze]

Originally Posted by deliquesce

^ is that in reference to me, melba?

.

Its in reference to my feelings on the matter. is that ok?

[deliquesce]

Originally Posted by Melbadaze

Its in reference to my feelings on the matter. is that ok?

obviously. you're entitled to your own beliefs/feelings, i have no intention of attempting to challenge or change them.

Originally Posted by Melbadaze

when people post on forums about supernatural powers, then my respect in their beliefs wains.

i was just wondering who the "people" were that you were referring to (or if it was some general statement that has no referent here) because i found it rather a hostile statement to make and it upsets me when people make veiled comments about other posters instead of being upfront. but since i'd like for this thread to be kept open, i think on second thoughts i'd prefer not to know.

[Melbadaze]

Hostile? No just adult debate. Perhaps you'd find more support in the sprituality forum? I don't go there because of my beliefs. Its not like I've posted in the sprituality forum with what I feel.

[deliquesce]

Originally Posted by Bether91068

I'm not sure I'm a huge believer in mind reading per se, but I do believe very much in unconscious connection. Sometimes I feel a very strong "sense" of someone... I think maybe it is more about being "in tune" with others and connecting to your own senses so you can feel theirs. From a concrete standpoint, it could also be very much about being keenly observant and picking up on all of the hints. Not sure this would explain everything that went on with you and Austin-T, though...

(((bether))) i dont think i believe in mind reading either... like you said, i think it's more about knowing another person well and picking up on their behavioural cues and expression, and also being a keen observer of human interaction .

i think it does go a part of the way in explaining stuff with Austin-T. i think the only weird stuff that i can't really explain is what i 'sensed' before i met Austin-T - there were 3 things (where he was born, his birth date and LOL that he is flamboyantly gay ) but i think maybe the gay thing is something i could have picked up by reading pdoc because i know pdoc well (visually - not mind reading ). i remember not wanting to see Austin-T because i guessed he was South African, and my ex was too - and her whole family hated me with an intense passion, but then thinking maybe it was ok because he might be someone worth talking about with sexuality stuff in a more open manner. pdoc is pretty accepting that i was with a girl, but my old-T kept trying to convince me that i was straight. the sexuality thing is still open for me, but i couldn't talk to old-T about it, and i'd feel uncomfortable talking to pdoc about it too (because he knew my ex really well).

the gay thing was something i verified the moment i saw Austin-T (and celebrated all over PC, hence austin-t's moniker ). the birth date thing was something i only found out last week (facebook stalker that i am ) and that freaked me out a bit. but i guess the chances of me getting his birthday right are higher than me winning the lotto, so it's all relative i guess .

[deliquesce]

Originally Posted by dreamseeker9

I met someone many years ago and instinctively knew that this person would end up being very important in my life, I felt drawn to her - 3 years later, she played a critical role in helping me get through a tough time.

ooh, i like what you say about being drawn to your person and i'm glad she was there to help you when you needed it .

i dont remember being drawn to Austin-T in any way at all at our first meeting (he asked me if there might be any barriers to us working together, and i actually told him "i dont trust you and i dont want to" ). but now that i know him a lot more, i do think i am drawn to him, even though i desperately dont want to be. but i also strongly believe he is going to be one of those ppl who enter my life and cause a bit of a "paradigm shift" - a new way of looking at things, and i'm excited about that. so im trying to struggle a little bit less against wanting to keep my walls up.

Originally Posted by stumpy

sometimes you connect more with others on different levels than you would with others. i believe that you come across things on your journey on purpose...you may not notice them at the time (or ever) but they are there for a reason.

. thank you for sharing, stumpy. i think this bit i quoted is all i really want to know - that things are heading in the right (dog friendly) direction.

Originally Posted by BlueMoon6

I have gone thru various stage in my life being very spiritual and religion-hopping and thru very anti-religion phases. Eh...maybe it a borderline thing....Right now Im in the middle- skeptical, suspicious, but sort of open and willing if the right whatever presents itself. I like this subject...thanks Deli.........

oy. i'm gonna have to beat you with rainbow's "no borderline" bashing stick. dont be so self dismissive, yeah? i used to be very strongly religious myself, but that all fell apart a few years ago. maybe it is coming back, i dont know. thank you for sharing your thoughts about the brain power thing - i agree that just because it's not something we understand, that it's not not-brain power . that's a nice and reassuring way of looking at it for me.

[deliquesce]

Originally Posted by hangingon

Not sure whether it's intuition, coincidence, or what, but it's quite interesting. I have never shared these things with my T though, wouldn't want her to think I was weird lol.....but they are true stories. I have always been very sensitive to reading people and situations, of course growing up in a rough situation made me more alert to those things as well.

wow, thanks for sharing all of those experiences, ((((hangingon)))). LOL - i understand not sharing them with your T. i agree that growing up in uncertain situations makes you more alert as well. i guess the interesting point from that is that i am hyper-aware of small changes in my environment, but i'm not always right in interpreting their meaning. i wonder how one goes about fostering the right interpretations and stopping the wrong ones?

Originally Posted by reflection

sometimes God will tell me something just to encourage me when i'm down, so i don't give up, and other times it's for someone else's benefit to pray for them or tell them something that might encourage them.

that's crazy about your camp story. like, mind blowingly awesome. i think i must be a selfish person, because whenever i have had those experiences of being drawn to someone, it's been for my own benefit (but in a way that is supportive? not like, making gazillions of $$$).

Originally Posted by Kiya

Deli, i would say that "facts" change with what we "know" and learn. Remember, once it was "fact" that the world was flat, and those who thought it was round were laughed out of town or worse. Just go with it - it's all good. all ok. =)

(((((kiya))))) thank you darling. it's funny that (particularly as a science student) you forget how much is not known, especially when the history of science points to all these glorious mistaken beliefs. i wish i could come back in a hundred (or thousand) years and see what things that are 'facts' now are held up as examples.

Originally Posted by exoticflower

I felt these things for years and have been searching for just what is this feeling. Just recently my T gave a book about this, Celestine Prophecy a few weeks ago and I have been searching my spiritual self ever since.

Synchronicity feels incredible!

thank you for sharing your poem, ((((exotic)))). i might have to find that book you mentioned in the holidays one day. but Austin-T is already giving me so many books to read up on (he wants me to cover more psych subjects than i already have - he's my T, not my uni lecturer!! ) but he still thinks they're important. what a rascal. so maybe if he gives me a psych-free holiday, i will try to find your book. is it readily available, do you know?

My T gave me the book to borrow, but it was on the world best seller list a few years ago so it should be at your library. :-) I really wish to convince you to take a break from the psych books lol. This book was life changing for me ( I hate the clique, lol) but it is true. Really, you gotta read this book! :-) http://www.celestinevision.com/

[hangingon]

Originally Posted by Melbadaze

Hanging, I am pleased you believe in god. I believe everyone believes in something, But when people post on forums about supernatural powers, then my respect in their beliefs wains, sorry, just my feelings.

Melba,
I hope it didn't come across that I thought I had supernatural powers lol....I don't think that at all, far from it.
Like I said, if weird things like that happen I don't make a big deal about it, it is what it is for whatever reason. I only shared my experiences because deli asked about things like that

I actually grew up in the church from age 10-32. I left there 4 years ago because of some major issues that were going on, and will never return to that church. In fact, I am not going to any church right now and am perfectly fine with that in this season. Just rethinking some things, questioning some of what I was taught. However, my belief in God Himself has not changed, and I know that he is perfectly ok with my questioning him and the whole ordeal. I have heard people use the term God is in control, I believe He sees all but I don't believe He allowed what happened to happen, just like I don't believe he allowed the abuse to happen. It was men using their free volition just as they did in the church situation I was in. God doesn't make anyone do anything, He waits for us to decide. I like to think if it like a game of chess. I believe He does speak to individuals in His own way but I think he watches and waits for us to decide the moves.

And I agree that every one believes in something.

[pachyderm]

I think people can be very much more sensitive about other people than is usually accepted, so much so that it seems almost like "mind-reading" but it is actually much more natural than that. And there are certain people who react so similarly to the way I do, or think the way I do, that I connect to them very quickly. But I do not recall any special experiences I have had with "coincidences" or UFO's or anything like that, so I tend not to believe there is anything "supernatural" going on.

The only possible contradiction to this is that I sometimes think that it would be interesting if all my trials were set up just to make me prepared to fulfill my "mission" here on earth -- but so far that "mission" has not been made clear to me...

[Kiya]

"it's funny that (particularly as a science student) you forget how much is not known, especially when the history of science points to all these glorious mistaken beliefs. i wish i could come back in a hundred (or thousand) years and see what things that are 'facts' now are held up as examples."

Me too Deli!!!

[FooZe]

Originally Posted by deliquesce

it is an anathema to me to be even considering things which are strictly outside the box .

Of course, what ends up "inside" and "outside" the box is always going to depend on how you choose to draw the box. I figure that believing in reason is at bottom just as much an act of faith as believing in anything else.

Originally Posted by R.D. Laing

Many people used to believe that angels moved the stars. It now appears that they do not. As a result of this and like revelations, many people do not now believe in angels.

Many people used to believe that the "seat" of the soul was somewhere in the brain. Since brains began to be opened up frequently, no one has seen "the soul". As a result of this and like revelations, many people do not now believe in the soul.

Who could suppose that angels move the stars, or be so superstitious as to suppose that because one cannot see one's soul at the end of a microscope it does not exist?

-- from The Politics of Experience; quoted here, about 3/4 of the way down the page.