complex ptsd

wooh, tapestry!!! welcome to PC!!! glad you've stopped by (and hope you're hear to stay).

i think your post was fabulous. there are some ppl who do not like the idea that c-ptsd and ptsd are different, and some ppl who want bpd renamed to c-ptsd. but i think your post spells out so well why they are different disorders. it is nice to read something so clear on the issue .

I guess I'll throw in my 2 cents. . .

I'm diagnosed with C-PTSD. However, my t and pdoc don't use the borderline diagnosis. . .So if they did, would my diagnosis be borderline instead? Who knows?

Like Rainbow, I don't fit the typical borderline profile. . .I don't cut, act out, rage, not promiscuous, etc. And I'm pretty sure i don't manipulate people either. I do have empathy. I think I would fit the description of the "acting in" borderline, rather than "acting out," but not much has been written about acting-in borderlines. Their anger is focused more on the self and not on others.

But I do have BPD traits of abandonment issues, contradictory or fuzzy sense of self, black and white thinking, emotion dysregulation, etc.

My t told me that people with BPD and people with C-PTSD often have similar symptoms, but the "cause" is different. She said that for people with C-PTSD, once the C-PTSD is resolved, then the borderline symptoms usually also disappear.

Thank you for the warm welcome! I came to PC to learn more about my self and to hear from others who might be facing similar challenges. Actually we are all challenged by our issues and so there's always something to relate to in anyone's posts.

Sittingatwatersedge, there is a very recent, very comprehensive, book (2009) Treating Complex Traumatic Stress Disorders, edited by Courtois and Ford. It can be heavy going, it is intended for a professional readership, but it covers a lot of bases and has contributions from all the major trauma people out there (Herman, van der Kolk, Briere, van der Hart and Steele, Pearlman to name some) so current views seem to be fairly represented. As I said in my post, I am not a T, but I have done a lot of reading over the past few years, mostly driven by an effort to understand why I am the way I am.

BTW, just to emphasize the developmental piece of it, my c-PTSD is linked not to severe physical or sexual abuse but to growing up in an environment - substance abusing parents, chronic school problems, moving house a lot, unboundaried - that was unstable, chaotic, unsupportive, and often painful. My personality development was derailed, and I grew up dissociated, fragmented, and with a lot of self and trust issues. I was lucky to find a great T who recognized this.

The name "Tapestry" refers to what I hope to be in the future. Since I was young, my self image was that of a patchwork doll - largish pieces of different fabric clumsily and rather randomly stitched together. Not quite DID but lacking a coherent sense of self. Now my T and I are clipping all the clumsy stitches, look at the pieces, and try to put things back together in a coherent way. I see my goal as a tapestry rather than a quilt because in the end, I hope all the different aspects of my personality will weave together and make a nice pattern

Peaches, my constellation of symptoms is very similar to yours. My T doesn't worry overly about diagoses - he just puts down depression for insurance - but technically I have BPD traits (and those of some other PDs) but not a BPD dx. What your T told you is exactly what mine has said. God luck with your healing

I haven't been diagnosed with C-PTSD but I'm reading the symptoms and they really fit. I was always afraid I had BPD -- I'm like you peaches100, no rage/acting out/being promiscuous, but very fuzzy sense of self, emotional problems, abandonment issues, obsessional patterns with people.. I am pretty high-functioning for a f*cked up person though. I used to cut but only a little when I was 14, but really I don't fit the BPD profile. I'm going to bring a printout of these symptoms to my T and ask (she hasn't told me my dx so she may already think C-PTSD since she specializes in PTSD).

I didn't think I had PTSD because I've gone over the memories so much, talked about them so much, that they don't really hurt anymore, and I don't re-experience or get flashbacks or anything. If the memories come to mind, they don't seem intrusive -- and I can put them out of my mind if I want. They still upset me and I think a lot about what might have been had I had a "normal" childhood, but I can talk about what happened matter-of-factly. But I'm still all kinds of messed up.

This discussion reminds me of the general theories of insecure attachment.

Those of us who were insecurely attached can have some abandonment fears or other issues, but not fit the diagnosis of borderline. Someone with an insecure attachment can have borderline, narcissistic, C-PTSD, anxiety, etc. Just because someone has an insecure attachment style does not necessarily mean they will develop a full-blown personality disorder or condition.

Instead, someone can present just a couple symptoms of insecure attachment while not having a major impact on one's life. For example-low self-esteem. And I see very few individuals, including the securely attached, who don't have 'issues' and dysfunctions that don't adversely affect his/her life at some point or another.

I can't say for sure, but I believe a person can have an insecure childhood attachment and not necessarily be pathologically "disordered". I wonder if therapists are too liberal in designating those who have an insecure childhood attachment as borderline?

Hi Tapestry, and welcome! Thank you for explaining c-ptsd and ptsd in such an understandable way.
For me, I have been diagnosed with BPD. I have those symptoms and it fits. My new t says I have ptsd. She never said anything about c-ptsd, but according to the way it is described in this thread, it fits me as well. What fits is the view of c-ptsd as a developmental disorder, especially personality fragmentation and a lack of skills for self-soothing and emotional regulation.

I like my new t ( who I affectonately referred to as flat tire therapist....ftt for short...since she had a flat tire for our first meeting). I want to trust her. I left a t I couldnt trust. But I have a very shaky and inconsistent understanding of whether I trust someone or not. When it comes to trust, I am so used to not trusting that I believe I do trust someone when in actuality, I do not. On an emotional level, it takes me a long time to trust someone, but I know well how to "act as if" I trust someone, even a therapist. I act as if so well that I can fool myself. Its not a simple issue for me. I want badly to trust the people in my life and to trust ftt, but it remains to be seen whether wanting to trust her is enough. With my husband, we've been married for a long time and the trust has been something that has grown very, very, very slowly and I am not there yet in terms of how much I would like to trust him. But I am no where near as distrusting (in terms of feelings) as I used to be.

i did mention to my T that i think i have complex ptsd and she was supportive as she always is. when i mentioned the chronic nature of abuse she said "yeah, childhood!" which i thought was funny. so, for me this is a good way to understand the conglomeration of symptoms i have whether or not i have an official diagnosis.

as i did more reading about c-ptsd and bpd it seems the difference is some (~30%) with bpd did not experience abuse but it seems to be more physiologically based for them. so, i guess they are different after all but with some overlapping symptoms.