The Darker Side of Therapy (Dealing with Therapy Dependence)

woah, ok. having actually read the article now () i must say that it probably doesn't apply to 95% of the ppl here . i think the type of dependence sonia is talking about is best seen in clients with BPD (though certainly not limited to them) - it's that kind of adoration and love, and real desire to actually be adopted etc. whereas a lot of us have probably gone throught those feelings... they eventually subside, but for some clients the need is as strong 20 years down the track, even when they have finished dealing with the issues that brought them to therapy to begin with. the examples she's used may be humourous, but at the same time i am willing to bet they have actually occured. i think "dependence" might have been a slightly poor choice of wording, if only because so many of us relate to that and it can be healthy in certain contexts. maybe "addiction" would have been better.

i completely disagree with the premise that therapists, especially therapists, try to ignore this phenomenon though. it's one of the more fascinating areas in psychology and most Ts would hold strong opinions on it. as much as i grouch about her elsewhere, marsha linehan has probably been a beacon of light in forging more compassion for people who go through this (whilst also acknowledging the difficulties that therapists face when trying to work with this sort of population).

I agree with Peaches.

Sometimes in articles such as these I get the impression that some positive things about caring for and/or being cared for by another person are being presented as negative. And I just don't understand that.

There may have been a time when I was dependent on my therapist, but that was part of the support I needed at that time to get myself out of the blue state I was in. Back then it was positive and it was necessary. I trusted in the relationship and knew that as I got better, the attachment would become more secure and the dependency would become less pronounced. And that is exactly what happened. Allowing yourself to be cared for by another person for whatever amount of time you need to heal is not something that should be frowned upon, I don't think. Everyone's experience in therapy with their therapist is their own and should be respected and valued as such. There is no place for shame in one's feelings. Feelings should be held and cherished, IMO.

Peaches-- I couldn't have said it any better. We need to get what we missed out on so that we can learn and grow to become mature independent people. There are no shortcuts in therapy, you have to work through things, and learning what it feels like to have a secure attachment is so important. I'm glad this topic has been brought up because it is something I struggle with every day.
to all of us!

I'm not on my home computer and this one has issues, so I hope this reply gets posted. I agree with Peaches and Brightheart, but I also agree with the blog author. Yes, she's writing, as Deli pointed out, mostly about people with BPD. I think that I was dependent in an unhealthy way, on my T, and sometimes it did seem like an addiction. The attachment part was healthy, though. I needed to be attached to her, but gradually it became more secure so that I don't need her the same way I used to. I actually thought some of those tips were helpful because it was painful for me to think about my T so much, and want to be with her so much. Even when I saw a T who was more willing to let me become dependent on her, it was painful. It's a little different with BPD. I couldn't control my wanting to be part of my T's life. The line between secure attachment and addiction was blurry. I totally agree that no one should have to terminate therapy when the attachment needs/dependency needs are still strong. When I told my T that if I thought about quitting, it felt like 1000 arrows piercing my heart, she waited. I saw her about 3 or 4 more years after making that statement!

*waves to the Psychotherapy people*

Hey all - I'm sorry if what I originally posted was at all offensive or hurtful. I know many people are at different points in their therapy journey and I didn't want to hurt peoples feelings.

So I removed my own thread. But since people wondered where it went to I decided to put it back up. I'm sorry!!

Continue the discussion, keep it clean and civil and all that nice stuff.

And thanks

I'm overly sensitive to hurting people's feelings and I didn't want to hurt anyone's feelings so I thought it was better to remove it. I admit - I probably shouldn't have removed it in hindsight, since it was such a "popular" thread.

Edit: PLEASE, In the future - PM a moderator or administrator if you have questions about a thread going "missing". We'll be happy to help, that's what we're here for.

I would like to thank you Christina for the thread. I've often wanted to ask people what they expected from therapy/therapist but I haven't figured out how to verbalize the question without it sounding offensive.

My own experience/expectation with therapy has been that I was going to a medical professional to seek advice and guidance. I expected him to interpret body language and different tells to assist me in getting to a place of better understanding and learn coping skills.

What a fine and scarey line some therapist must walk.

i thought the article was quite patronizing and rude. It made me angry to read it. Prob just me though. I thought that she was out of touch with how complex the issue is and should have more empathy when writing. IMO therapists foster dependence then complain when it becomes am issue. They also are not equipped to deal with the intensity of such dependence.

oh yeah also someone commented that bpd is the same as complex ptsd. Pft. WRONG! COMPLETELY!

I had no problems with the article itself...it was the generalized flippant attitude of it that irked me. I'm sure some of what she wrote has a ring of truth in some therapeutic relationships, but I didn't care for her approach to the discussion.

My main beef would have been the line about the therapist role-playing during therapy. That is not my perception of what took place during my therapy. I would say it's more about the therapist trying to discover particular qualities in themselves that their client needs. In fact, that is exactly how I think the relationship becomes reciprocal on some level. The client ellicits positive qualities out of the therapist. The therapist is bound to have positive feelings both through helping their client and from discovering the capacity for that particular quality within themselves. So clients give back during the sessions and help themselves at the same time. Interaction and response from both individuals and all of the variables involved. Sometimes the best way to ellicit caring feelings from another person is by letting them take care of you. I don't see therapy as an acting performance by therapists. Believing that to be truthful may be a method of keeping the actual relationship less intimate and at a comfortable distance. I personally believe in the truth and genuineness of this relationship. I believe it is more challenging to allow oneself inside the intimacy and still know that you must respect the other person's boundaries. Restrained intimacy. It's very powerful stuff and not something one would want to avoid by telling oneself the whole experience is just a performance.

Christina, I can't speak for anyone else here, but I certainly don't mind getting set off by things I read sometimes. It's another experience for me to explore things within myself so I find my reactions kind of fascinating as well. And having a place to discuss all of that is very valuable and pretty cool. I'd much rather do that here then on the blog comments. Thanks for putting this thread back.

This article was was triggering for me. But I want to say I am NOT upset at all that it was posted. It confirmed what I already knew about the attitude of some therapists- or at least one that I know of. It could have been written by my current therapist, flippant attitude and all. The way I see her attitude is suck it up, your really dont need me that badly, your a grown woman with children, go back to your life and cut it out. She ignores my transference and seems to be irritated by what it brings up for me. With this attitude I dont feel safe talking to her about difficult feelings, no less bringing up how I feel about her. Since I know this really is the way she feels, what good will it do me to have a closure appointment with her? I'll be pissed I paid for more of the same.

If I really thought all therapists were role-playing and not authentic with me, I wouldnt bother. My t is doing quite a bit of role-playing with me. It is really hurtful. The author is a therapist, right? She is burnt out.

This article was triggering for me because I am going through exactly that- I have a therapist with exactly that attitude and I have had enough insensitivity. Maybe I'll read it next year with different eyes and have a good laugh.

I see my therapist kind of in line with what Brightheart wrote. In the beginning I was very distrustful of therapy and had the perspective that my T was just role playing and pretending to care. Now I see things a bit differently (most of the time). I don't think my T is role playing, she does care maybe a little on a personal level but certainly on a professional level. I see her as using her unique skills and knowledge to help me learn a bit more about who I am and use this knowledge to accept and possibly enhance my life.

I think I am somewhat dependent on therapy as a modality that helps me interpret and see things that are tough for me to look at. I am at the moment dependent on my T as a place to release emotions and energy that I don't know what to do with, stuff that I don't really understand yet, but don't want to re-bury. I don't know if this is a bad or unhealthy kind of dependency that might lead me to some obsessive type of behavior. I hope not.

To me, "therapy "dependence" sounds like diminishing the value of therapy or the therapy relationship. Separately, dependency is an issue in itself and can be worked on in therapy

Role playing does not mean acting without feeling. I think the term can mean different things to different people. For example, I am a mom and there were times when I was raising my son that I responded/reacted from the 'mom' part of me because that's what he needed. It was a real and loving response in a real and loving relationship, but I can see that it could be defined as role playing because at that time that I responded, or chose how to respond, I was aware of that one of my many roles that included sister, daughter, granddaughter, friend, neighbor, employee... and today that includes other roles such as PC community member....

Very interesting Echoes! Do you think that is how the author meant it? I could have been projecting my hurt feelings from my t onto this author! I imagined the author to mean that the relationship was without genuineness or value to the therapist. A role she steps into and out of when in/out of work. I mean, I guess that is what a therapist would do, but I did see a t for 10 yrs who absolutely was in therapy who he was out of therapy and the relationships he had with his clients reflected that.

I've been reading this thread but hadn't posted yet because this is a very emotional issue for me! I sort of have trouble with getting obsessed with certain people, authority figures. Actually thinking about this is making me want to cry. I'm scared of the fact that I like my T so much, I don't want her to reject me, I can't feel that way again.

I've only seen her for 6 sessions so far. She's on vacation this week and it's been really hard. Is that normal, so soon in our relationship? I haven't called or anything, but I keep thinking and thinking about her. I don't want to think about her so much! I just want a normal secure relationship with her! I'm angry with myself for not being more in control of my thoughts.

I don't know if this is too obsessed: I looked her up using pipl.com. On this site, her address was listed. The high school she went to. Her birthday. Her parents' names. Her sister's name. Her husband's name. The fact that her father died many years ago, when she was 14. Her thesis. I read her thesis twice. I know where she lives but I don't go to her house or stalk her. But the site did have a link to Google Maps and I saw a street-view picture of her house. I know which car's hers when I go to sessions and once I walked over and looked in it -- she had some books in the backseat, and a carseat. I look at her website all the time.

I'm afraid of what she will think of me if I tell her! Right now I feel like we work well together, that she really likes me and I really like her and she sees me in a good light, as a worthwhile person who just happens to be stuck on an issue. If I tell her this will it change our relationship?

I know I would tell someone else to just suck it up and talk about it straight up.. but I don't know if I'm too obsessed.. what if it alarms her?

Of course that is exactly what therapists do, but I really do not care for the choice of wording the author used. It feels cold and distant. I just feel a lot of dimishing of my feelings time and time again when the subject of the relationship is written about. The mocking attitude (my perception) of this article to me is like a defense mechanism. It's easier to treat this like it's a funny game, but this is serious stuff. I'd like to write my own article one day...from the perspective of the other side of the room. I understand that my reaction to this goes back to my need to protect my family from when I was a child, but what is the purpose of distancing ourselves from this relationship? Why not face it and acknowledge it for the very special and unique type of relationship that it is? Why diminish it? Why downplay it? Why make it less than it is? For whose comfort is that? This can be a very intimate and beautiful relationship. It's limited and different but it is very special as well. I never had unrealistic expectations or desires within my relationship with my T. I always respected the relationship and knew what it was. I also love my therapist. One can do both.

Okay. All of that being said, I do understand the author's point. But, again, I just question why she made this into a joke. I agree that there are times when one simply needs to be able to laugh at oneself, but not here...not about care and love and not about another's pain and suffering.

I never ever mean to say anything disrespectful. I'm just writing out my personal feelings about this. I also don't question that dependency is a real issue in some therapeutic relationships and that has to be addressed. I just wish these matters were treated a bit more sensitively.

Jexa- There was a thread, or some posts about therapist stalking. I think we all have done similar things and it seems to me that you are not going overboard. Personally, I would not go as far as to say all of that to my t b/c I think it would alarm her and she would not really know how far I was going to take it.

The relationship between therapist and client/patient seems to be such an intense, complex thing. I have read others here talk about how the obsession subsides as the relationship progresses. My relationship with my t was nothing but frustrating, so I clung to any bit of info or warmness I could get ahold of. Im interested to hear what others have to say.

((((((((((((((((((((jexa)))))))))))))))))))))

Early in therapy, I felt almost obsessed with my T too. It really hit me out of nowhere, because it isn't a usual pattern for me... I think there is just something unique about the client/therapist relationship that can bring up all kinds of things.

I did google my T a bit, and look at the website for his church, and things like that. I ended up telling him about it, and he said I was making sure I was safe. He totally accepted it, and understood it.

I've been with him for almost 2 years, and the obsession is (finally! lol) gone. I wish I could say how I got from point A to point B...but somehow, I'm here. I bet you will get here too. I think what you're feeling is really normal.

to you!

jexa--I have a lot of experience with obsession for my T. Everyone is different; some people have a harder time managing their relationship with their T than others. I looked up everything about my T right away, like you. I did tell her, though, and I would suggest that you tell your T. She probably won't be surprised, and it will be helpful for her to know your reactions. It's something that you can discuss--reasons why you feel the need to obsess about her.

The goal is to have a secure attachment toward your T without the need to obsess about her. You haven't seen her long enough to do that yet. You said you have this pattern with other authority figures. That's something worth discussing in your therapy. I have this pattern also, though not just with authority figures.

As to when the obsession will subside, I don't think there's any one answer. It took me a very long time because the obsession was really my biggest therapy issue. But it WILL get better. I don't know if this fits for you, but my T thought I did those obsessive things in an attempt to get closer to her. It was a safe way for me, though not a very effective way. She told me I could just ask her what I wanted to know about her instead. I couldn't do that, though. It was scary to become close to her. Obsession was easier, more comfortable, and not scary for me.

I don't know if that fits for you or not.

Regarding role playing: I never felt that my T was playing a role. If anything, she was TOO real with me. She was always authentic, never a blank slate. I guess I have to reread the article since I didn't consider it flippant or funny.

It was the line about walking off hand in hand toward the quintessential sunset or wanting your therapist to adopt you that ruined the entire article for me. That was the flippant part. Basically it portrays someone loving their T as being "silly" or "ridiculous"...or at least that's what I got out of that. You know, as if I were dancing around my house writing my therapist love poems or something...which isn't how it has been at all. I know I'm over-sensitive about this stuff, though. She just posted another blog about falling in love with your therapist. Maybe I should stay away, but I know I won't be able to.

I don't know, imagine that you'd had this treasure that you'd worked on building (like with my sand castle metaphor) and it really represented the very best in you and others came along and laughed at it, kicked it down and called you stupid for cherishing it so much. That's what reading those 2 lines felt like. I'm sure it's some kind of transference reaction from me as well. Maybe even a double one. The protecting love thing and from being teased and unaccepted by the other kids whenever I tried to express a deep and sentimental part of myself. I really like the part of me that loves T. I don't want to squash it.

I didn't mean to ignore your concerns, Jexa. I was in the middle of the I've-been-triggered-and-have tunnel-vision-right-now method of post reading. I'm sorry I mised your post.

On the plus side, the word transference doesn't seem to set me off anymore. I keep trying...

That. Is exactly the thing. Exactly the problem, and the pattern. I don't actually want to be close to these people. I want to intellectualize them, and keep them on their faraway pedestals. Worship is easier than trust.

.. My T does acceptance and commitment therapy (ACT). She normally does CBT but she's doing ACT with me. Not psychodynamically trained and probably not that interested in what the relationship has to do with my problem. But I can try. She may be willing to discuss it. At the very least I probably need her help with this.. it's a long-standing pattern and has always given me trouble! She's pretty warm and open, though, and so far she's been very intuitive to my needs for each session.

I don't know, I'm scared to death of scaring her but everyone seems to be saying this is pretty normal. I know "transference" is normal but I feel like all the looking up stuff might scare her a bit. I'll try to tone it down but I have a problem of being too honest when I try to speak the truth.

Thanks rainbow.