[sittingatwatersedge]

I mentioned to T that if I should cry, she watches; that a friend would not do that.

After we went through the "I am not your friend, I am your T" discussion (which I was expecting and am fine with, BTW), she asked, what do you want me to do if you start to cry?

Although I know she didnlt mean it this way, the question felt a lot like "sheesh, what on earth do you want from me?!" and I said, what needs to happen is that I just stop asking for special treatment. She said NO, you need to tell me what you need for me to do [so that I can feel safe enough to cry apparently].

I couldn't come up with a thing. What does your T do if you start to cry?

[Brightheart]

My T didn't always look, but I wasn't always looking either. When he did look, he'd look empathetic and sad, but he would allow the moment. He'd offer me a tissue, he'd hold me emotionally...I'd feel a loving emotion coming from him that was almost palpable. He was supportive and kind and respectful. It felt safe.

It took me awhile before I could cry in front of T. Now, I tear up enough to require at least one tissue at almost every session! T never brings attention to my crying until I do - she will wait until I look around for a tissue and then will hand me the box. Or she will make a comment that I must have deep feelings on that subject once I start crying. I like that T doesn't draw attention to my tears, it makes me feel like it's perfectly normal to show them to T. But everyone is different - find what works best for you, and tell your T.

I'm not much of a cryer, but I have occasionally cried during a session. He offers me a tissue. He lets me have my time to cry. He lets me have my time to collect myself. That's what I need I guess. I certainly can't talk while I'm crying, and he doesn't expect me to. If I'm still upset when the session is over, he moves me into a room where I can have some privacy to get it together.

the first time i cried? t gathered up all her stuff ran out of the room screaming : "THE WORLD IS ENDING STUMPY IS CRYING SAVE YOURSELVES!!!!"

okay so maybe it wasn't really like that...usually she hands me the box of tissues and then asks if i want her to come sit next to me...which i do. i made a vow at like 4 that i would never cry again...can't let the (substittute word for out of wedlock kids ) see you in pain. so i didn't cry until last year and i'm 51...so crying is a really big deal for me.

i'm not comfortable with it at all...and if she moves to fast or if there is a sudden loud noise then the ptsd kicks in and i'm back in 4 yr old land again.

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

I mentioned to T that if I should cry, she watches; that a friend would not do that.

***

she asked, what do you want me to do if you start to cry?

***

I couldn't come up with a thing. What does your T do if you start to cry?

((((((sitting))))))) I don't have the answers, but I really relate to this. I don't cry in therapy. The closest I've ever come is my voice breaking a little. I also think the "feeling watched" thing might be the hold up, along with just old habits of learning never to show someone else when you're sad/weak and avoiding the feeling of being sad since being comforted was not an option.

I think the "feeling watched" thing can be helped by the T doing something to make it feel like they're in it with you, not just observing you? I know some people's T's sit next to them or hold their hand, which I could see helping. Others will probably have good ideas for this. Maybe she could not call attention to it and look away until you're ready to talk? Or would you rather her to say something affirming (ex. that it's OK to be upset, that she still likes and respects you even if you're upset)?

Sitting, I guess in your scenario, what did you have in mind that a friend WOULD do that your T wouldn't? On an emotional level, is that what you would need in order to go there?

For me, I do have a couple of people in RL that I have cried in front of. I know they care about me and don't judge me for it -- they've also cried in front of me, so it feels reciprocal. They physically comfort me when it happens, which seems to be what I need. Maybe because that is not an option in therapy, I just don't go there??? Like, it would feel worse to cry and not be comforted than to not cry at all? Don't know, but it's an interesting question.

[darkrunner]

What a great question.....I am curious to hear about other's experiences.

I've had 3 T's in the last 2 years, and have cried oceans of tears in front of them.
Not one of them ever did anything besides hand me a tissue.
Ugh -- what a horribly uncomfortable experience to be sitting in front of someone, pouring out the painful details and feelings, and being so overwhelmed and unable to hold back the tears.
I just want to hide
or disappear
and the T's just sit there and stare.
I guess it must be uncomfortable for them too.

What would I want my T to do when I'm crying? ---

[Simcha]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

I mentioned to T that if I should cry, she watches; that a friend would not do that.

After we went through the "I am not your friend, I am your T" discussion (which I was expecting and am fine with, BTW), she asked, what do you want me to do if you start to cry?

Although I know she didnlt mean it this way, the question felt a lot like "sheesh, what on earth do you want from me?!" and I said, what needs to happen is that I just stop asking for special treatment. She said NO, you need to tell me what you need for me to do [so that I can feel safe enough to cry apparently].

I couldn't come up with a thing. What does your T do if you start to cry?

I haven't really cried. One time I teared up a little bit but I brushed it aside and didn't really give him a chance to get a good look at me. It passed quickly.

One of my fears is to let out painful emotion in that manner, and then to fall off the deep end. That is somewhere I have been before and I don't want that to happen. I have to feel really OKAY to cry. Maybe it's a guy thing, but I don't think so in my case--I think I just need to feel really secure with myself in that moment to be able to show my emotions in that manner.

I'll tell you though, I wouldn't feel really good if my T had to ask me what to do when and if I were to cry. Since T and I are both in consensus that hugs are out of the question (the subject, in fact, never comes up as it's not any part of what I want or need out of therapy), its never an option. If my T even tried to hug me, I'd run far far away. My T has other ways of showing his concern and its not any less effective than physical touch (eeuw) would be. I'm sure he has patients that really would like physical touch, like hand holding and hugging and all that jazz, but it's a definite non-issue with me.

Honestly, if my T had to ASK me how to show support and stuff, I'd be really pissed. I don't see how it's possible for a T to be clueless like that.
What a person says is at least as important as how a person says it. Perhaps your T has some sort of a communication problem and/or even lets her frustration take over, rendering her incapable of effectively showing/providing support in your time of need. This makes Sam PISSED. Sam no like stupid answers!

That, would be upsetting to me. If it were me, I would have answered something along the lines of "I don't really know T, but why can't you figure it out without making me feel like a needy, worthless, stupid patient? Don't they teach you how to be T's in T school"?
Yeah, I know, that's harsh, but a reply like what your T gave you would have provoked the worst in me. Hang in there---I think it's perfectly NORMAL to feel the way you do. Try not to internalize it, as there is nothing wrong with wanting some sort of HUMAN, EMPATHETIC, SUPPORTIVE response from someone you just poured your heart out to.

Ask your T why she is so confused... see what her response is. My bet is it's something problematic within HER self-imposed limits, and not something wrong with you.

[skeksi]

When I cry, T looks at me. It doesn't feel like staring; it feels like an effort to connect with me and be in the pain with me. I would feel very uncomfortable with physical contact like hand-holding or hugs at these moments. I think the emotional contact I get from him being willing to be there with me in the pain is more valuable than anything else he might do. For me, it's that feeling of togetherness that helps.

[BlueMoon6]

Good question. I am very black/white when it comes to crying and emotional displays. I can be quite reserved if I dont feel safe, but on the other hand, like KT I can cry oceans of tears. In group a grp member or my t has held my hand or held me, but that was a long time ago.

I'll describe my experiences with dt and ftt. With ftt she is looking at me with caring and emapthy in her face and eyes. I dont feel stared at at all. I feel like she is with me in every way. My emotions, my breathing, my body language that I am not even aware of. I feel "held." Its OK. If I were a mess and crying out of control I might even ask her to sit next to me on the couch (yeah, sure...no...I might ask....????). She doesnt hand me a tissue, tho. I get up to get one.

Dt looked at me when I was crying and I truly cried rivers of tears in her office. Endless. She looked at me and I wondered what she could be thinking. I felt stared at, for sure. I was assuming the best, and now I know if I should have assumed that. There were times when I was crying hard and I looked up to see her looking out her window! I cant describe in words how devastating it was for me. I felt like I was alone crying to the bricks in the building. There were more times than not that dt appeared annoyed at my tears, and all I could reason was that she thought my sadness was some manipulative bpd thing. From the bottom of my heart, I know she is very wrong about that. Even my tears she reduced to bpd. She didnt take me seriously in any way.

In my therapy fantasy- What do I want my t to do when I cry? I want her to be WITH me, not just witness the tears. To come over to me, with an intuition about what is the deeper issue and what would help me to heal and feel better for the moment. I would want her to understand that behind the tears for whatever it is, there are tears for being alone with the pain. And I'd want her to hold me or talk to me so I am not so alone in it. Maybe softly saying some very empathetic, soothing and caring words to show how much she cares and is with me. Maybe dim the lights.....OK- Im getting carried away here...but wouldnt it be nice?

[rainbow8]

I had no idea this thread was about crying!! Unlike some of you who feel embarrassed about crying in therapy, it has always been my goal! But I have never, ever cried in therapy, not with any of my Ts. Maybe I came close once, but I stopped the feelings immediately, though I did it unconsciously. I so much want to cry with my T but I'm too inhibited. I hardly ever cried with anyone in my life except probably when I was little. We didn't show emotions like crying in my family. We kept our feelings to ourselves.

I do cry by myself, and I have no problem crying during sad movies or when reading sad books. There it seems to be acceptable.

What would I want my T to do if I cried? Of course, hold me, because that's my fantasy. More realistically, hold my hand and tell me it's okay to cry. Or even just to tell me it's okay to cry. I'd want her to say "I'm glad you're able to cry." Maybe this will happen some day, maybe not.

Oh, this is a huge issue for me. I used to be abused harder if I cried during it. You learn to stuff down your emotions really quickly. My 2nd T taught me to cry, I know that sounds weird, but he was so gentle and it just felt safe for the first time. Then I stopped wearing makeup because it would just run off onto his chair anyway! lol I think part of it was because the stuff we were working on was not stuff in the past but actually when my brother was found dead, my first T yelled at me and said he wouldn't come to my funeral if I died, and after my first granddaugher died after 28 days, all within a month, I couldn't hold back. I am better as stuffing those old emotions down, than current ones.
But with my current T I keep getting more comfortable each time but I just don't know if I can turn off that switch when you are used to being physically hurt if you cried. She is aware of this.
She recently asked me what she can do to make things feel safer for me. I truly don't know. I think it would be nice if she sat next too me or at least got closer to me if I cried, but I am not sure. She never asks, and I certainly don't think I could because what if she said no. That wouldn't feel very good.

Thanks for bringing up such a good subject! It feels worse to know I am not alone in this issue.

[sunrise]

I am not always looking at my T when I am crying, but if I do look up, I see he is looking at me, and his eyes are very warm and sharing my pain and offering empathy. I don't think he would look away when I am sad and crying because then he would miss that opportunity to connect if I should look for him. It would not make me feel good if I were crying and T were looking away! It would seem uncaring to me, like he was bored by me and thinking of other things. When I cry, my T often makes noises of empathy, non-verbals that communicate his presence and caring. I like these noises. Since I am often not looking at him when I cry, they provide a connection between us because I can hear him. I know he is there. I know he is with me. As far as talking, if he sees me struggling and trying to hold back the tears, he encourages me to let go and cry, tells me its OK, reassures me. Sometimes even when I am crying--tears coming down my cheeks, but silently (I am a silent cryer), he will still see me holding back and just say let go, and sometimes I do, and have given him a few big sobs. I have never done that with anyone in my life. It actually feels really good. There are times when I just don't want to be crying and don't want T to see me, and in those moments, I will cover my face with one or both hands so he can't see me. Just a way of getting a little privacy.... I do often feel "held" by him, even though we have never touched when I have cried. A few times he has said, when especially moved, "I am sitting here, holding you," and he makes a hug motion with his arms, as if encircling me--all while sitting opposite from me on his couch. I like it when he does that very much.

[Brightheart]

I can only remember one time when former T looked away when I was crying. It was when I was talking about my feelings for him. He averted his gaze, stared down at the rug and looked sad. My impression of that was that it was painful for him to look in that moment. Maybe because he'd been unable to soothe me or maybe because he recognized that my painful emotions were a result of my not being able to give him my feelings of love. Which, of course, I knew along I could never do, but it still hurt. I think it was a very human sign of his caring about me. And also a human sign that he was sad that I'd been experiencing these emotions that had to do with him.

[sittingatwatersedge]

hi Simcha - thanks for your reply but I was a bit frustrated to see that you said your T does several things, but you don't tell any of them.

please understand that T is NOT confused or clueless; I don't feel stupid or pathetic for crying; I am NOT PO'd at her for asking this question. I had told her that I was feeling fearful about this weird relationship in general, yes part of it the fact that she watches me while I cry (yes she offers me tissues if I need them, and i am very sure she is with me in feeling but I can't look at her in those moments).

I didn't tell her about the fear because I was asking her to change what she does, but since I brought it up, I guess it seemed possible, so she is trying to take care of what I need. The thing is I've made it a point not to need anything for so long (the "Needless Wonder") that I don't know how to say what would help.

I tend to push my feelings down in session, and then go home and have emotional reactions for 2-3 weeks, which is probably screwing up my therapy. It is so hard for me to show emotion in session that if I do cry she probably doesn;t want to risk distracting me by saying anything out loud!!! but if she could say my name, maybe, or put her hand on my arm now and then (not always, just if it seemed helpful), I think it might help me not to feel so alone. I couldn't bear to look at her.

Simcha... what DOES your T do?

[BlueMoon6]

Originally Posted by Brightheart

I can only remember one time when former T looked away when I was crying. It was when I was talking about my feelings for him. He averted his gaze, stared down at the rug and looked sad. My impression of that was that it was painful for him to look in that moment. Maybe because he'd been unable to soothe me or maybe because he recognized that my painful emotions were a result of my not being able to give him my feelings of love. Which, of course, I knew along I could never do, but it still hurt. I think it was a very human sign of his caring about me. And also a human sign that he was sad that I'd been experiencing these emotions that had to do with him.

Brightheart- I am so touched by this story...it makes me want to tear up. I suspect I have this issue with tearing up when I read or see real, honest, true caring, such as the way your t felt as he watched you struggle to give him those feelings of love. He felt for or and WITH you. It fills me with longing. Or maybe it is empathy. If I feel that t really cares, or I have a moment of actually being able to take that in, it makes me want to cry (though I dont actually cry). Does that make any sense?