[theave]

I hadn't seen my T for a few weeks for various reasons, and it was good to see her today. She has a very calming manner. I have been feeling better over the last few weeks and was quite pleased to have got through a few weeks without any formal support, which hasn't happened often over the past 18 months or so. She wanted to know what had happened when I saw the pdoc a couple of weeks ago, and I told her that although I was happy enough with the meds he is prescribing, I had found the appt upsetting as he seemed to imply that it was a choice - so if I was still feeling bad then it was my fault (he didn't say this but it's what I took from what he said). She was good at showing me examples of times when I have done a lot or done things that I have found hard - her view is that I don't shy away from hard challenges, and that was so nice to hear. I find it so easy to belittle what I have done and focus on the things I feel I haven't done or failed at. So - move your family thousands of miles away, cope with all the paperwork, find a house, sell your old house, have your beloved dog put down, enrol kids in school and make sure they're doing ok, sit drivers test, buy cars... pah! - that's easy, anyone could do that. But the things I haven't done - got fitter, found regular things to occupy my time, made lots of friends... well, I really need to have done better on those.

Oh - I also wanted to say, and I forgot to bring it up today, how invisible I feel at times - I speak sometimes and people just don't notice which then makes me even more anxious about speaking to new people. Basic stuff like going into shops and things is ok, it's when I'm in a group and trying to join in that I feel ignored at times. It's hard when you have a lack of self-confidence anyway, to have the guts to talk loudly enough to be heard.

I feel scared at this time of the year - 2 years ago was when this depressive episode started as I was just exhausted all the time, eventually sought help in January. This time last year I was sliding fast, just couldn't see how I could keep going, how I would make it to Christmas. And then to top it all my OH was told he was losing his job a couple of days before Christmas. By early January when it was time to start picking up the pieces again - work, kids, school - I just couldn't do it, was very close to acting on suicidal thoughts and spend the month in hospital. So I know that logically things are different this year - I seem to be getting on better with this new medication, we are living somewhere beautiful, we have been tested as a family and have come through it depending on each other and realising how much we like - as well as love - each other - but it still is scary to me, last year doesn't feel so long ago and I don't think I could cope if I had to face another year like this again.

[jexa]

theave - I have the tendency to belittle the things I've done, too. But not being hard on yourself isn't easy -- you can't just say "I need to stop being so hard on myself." Isn't this the classic problem. I'm glad your T is so supportive.

[rainbow8]

Oh - I also wanted to say, and I forgot to bring it up today, how invisible I feel at times - I speak sometimes and people just don't notice which then makes me even more anxious about speaking to new people. Basic stuff like going into shops and things is ok, it's when I'm in a group and trying to join in that I feel ignored at times. It's hard when you have a lack of self-confidence anyway, to have the guts to talk loudly enough to be heard.

I can relate to the above. I have felt invisible too, in the same situations you do. I sometimes go to events where people are sitting around a round table eating, and everyone is talking to the person next to them except me. I don't know how to get into the conversation, and it seems like no one around me knows I'm there. It's hard, but I've gotten used to it. I do fine one on one with my friends, so I just accept that these other situations aren't the end of the world.

Sometimes I go to the other extreme. I was with my H and everyone else was talking but me. I had something to say on the subject, but this man didn't seem to hear me. I didn't realize I was shouting because I felt invisible. The man got annoyed. In retrospect, it was kind of funny though I don't know why he didn't let me talk in the first place.

I understand about belittling yourself too. All a matter of confidence and self-esteem. You've got a right to pat yourself on the back for all you've accomplished. You're not the same as you were this time 2 yrs. ago or last year, so try not to worry about repeating what happened then. Sounds like you've got a good T!

[theave]

Thank you both. It means a lot to have your input, I really do appreciate it. I think lack of confidence and poor self-esteem have always been there, and are what's left when the depression starts to ebb. It's then hard to be able to move forward from that. Rainbow, your story about shouting made me laugh - but it's hard, isn't it? Perhaps acceptance that certain situations aren't that easy or enjoyable for me is the way forward. I was on the phone to my dad yesterday and I had to try to say something about 5 times before he actually stopped talking long enough to listen.

You're right, I think my T is really good - it took a while to get used to her but I really value her input now. I found the process of picking a therapist hard but it looks like I struck lucky.

Hm, lucky... I was thinking about that last night. When we were in the UK I considered myself to be lucky because I was offered a lot of support - I saw a nurse most weeks, psychiatrist as needed, psychologist and occupational therapist weekly, and my GP, and an inpatient stay. All were offered without time limit and this is not the case everywhere in the UK - a friend who has been extremely low has been given a few visits from the crisis team and 8 sessions with a psychologist, and that's it - till presumably things get so much worse for her that they have to do something about it. So knowing that other people didn't get much support, it made me feel I needed to be very grateful for the help I did have, and to feel undeserving, that there were people who needed it far more than me. I was in hospital for a month and to begin with I felt such a fraud, thought they would send me home and tell me to stop wasting their time. As the time went on, of course, I worried that they weren't sending me home...

I suppose I felt I couldn't take that support for granted and I had the feeling that it could be taken away at any time. Maybe this has had the effect of not wanting to get better because I am scared of having to cope on my own. But last night, after seeing my T, it suddenly dawned on me (I know, not that quick on the uptake) that it is up to me how long I continue to see someone, that I am in control rather than being at the mercy of the vagaries of the NHS, assuming I am still covered and we can afford the deductible. So maybe I need to stop being so grateful and think about how I can get - and stay - well.

I am still feeling quite shaky and vulnerable, and that's hard after having had a taste of feeling pretty much normal last week.

It is really interesting to me how you all talk about therapy and process what a session has meant to you - I suppose we still have a fair amount of British reserve and while I have a few online friends with MH problems, we don't tend to go into such detail. Maybe it's because of the feeling that we are a hot potato - GP sees you as long as possible till - ouch! - they can't cope with you any longer so pass you to see a psychiatrist who sees you periodically (and most often you'll see lots of different ones, mainly house officers on their 6-month rotation who look about 12 and have no idea about life really) who juggles you a while but really depends on the psychiatric nurses to keep you going, and then - yikes that's hot!- they will try to involve psychological services which is a different department, and they will pass you back and forward for a while. And then maybe an inpatient stay, voluntary or on a section, as a last resort. The ward I was on was supposed to be an acute ward but there were people there who had been there 18months and probably had no chance of being able to cope with real life again.

So, choice is a novel concept for me. Gosh, I have wittered on a long time...

Originally Posted by theave

Oh - I also wanted to say, and I forgot to bring it up today, how invisible I feel at times - I speak sometimes and people just don't notice which then makes me even more anxious about speaking to new people. Basic stuff like going into shops and things is ok, it's when I'm in a group and trying to join in that I feel ignored at times. It's hard when you have a lack of self-confidence anyway, to have the guts to talk loudly enough to be heard.

I can so relate to this feeling. Sometimes I'm within a group, like sitting with other teachers at lunch, and I want to interject something, but no one seems to hear me. I don't understand why that is. I have been diagnosed with avoidant personality disorder, so maybe it's just a perception. It probably is. I feel like I'm speaking up, but maybe I'm really not. I don't know. I tend to sit on the sidelines and observe people instead of involving myself with people. (Everywhere except with my students. I'm completely comfortable with a room full of 17-year-olds. Hmm.)

[theave]

It's nice to know I'm not alone - well, not nice exactly as it would clearly be better if none of us felt like this! - but it is comforting that others know how this feels. I used to teach too and was fine with the kids, but when I had to do things in front of the parents I felt a bit out of my depth. All to do with being in control, I guess, and self-esteem.

[Fuzzybear]

[wonderingmary]

Originally Posted by theave

Oh - I also wanted to say, and I forgot to bring it up today, how invisible I feel at times - I speak sometimes and people just don't notice which then makes me even more anxious about speaking to new people. Basic stuff like going into shops and things is ok, it's when I'm in a group and trying to join in that I feel ignored at times. It's hard when you have a lack of self-confidence anyway, to have the guts to talk loudly enough to be heard.

I've had this problem, too. I think it's partly a matter of learning a skill. Initially, I would feel so uncomfortable even when a very nice person would listen to me. (I'm so glad you have a therapist you can talk with -- at least, it sounds as if you can talk with her comfortably. I never got to the point where I felt comfortable talking with a therapist.) And I would often feel so aggressive and rude if I jumped into conversation. But there's also a tendency for many men to ignore women. (Maybe not as much as it used to be, though.) It used to be so frustrating when I would say something and the conversation would go on as if I hadn't said anything, then a few minutes later a man would say what I had said, and then people would notice and comment on the idea.

I've gotten better in the past few years at getting into the conversation. Turning sixty had an effect (also gave me a little more self-confidence in therapy) -- I told myself that I must have accumulated some wisdom by then. Turning sixty-five had even more of an effect -- I could say, well, I'm old, and old people require a little tolerance if they ramble on. I hope it doesn't take you as long as it did me! Maybe having a therapist who is responsive, and also having responses here that show that we are listening (well, reading) and responding can help you acquire the self-confidence and the skill.

[theave]

Thanks for that. I think you're right, it is a skill to learn, and I guess depression erodes much of the confidence needed to practice it. I do feel quite comfortable with my therapist but it is early days still and although I think she "gets" me pretty well, there are things that I take as read because of where I was brought up and she doesn't have the same assumptions. But having people respond here does help too - so thank you all. I think I am maybe more aware of it now as my accent marks me out as different so I am more self-conscious as I feel people will notice that difference. It's a bit like speaking another language - I try to follow the conversation and work out what I'm going to say, then when I actually say it, either the conversation's moved on or everyone stops dead to listen - so it becomes easier not to say anything or to not project your voice enough for people to hear.

It's good to hear that you have found it easier over the last few years - maybe as we get older it does get easier or we worry less about what others think of us. Well, that's true for those without depression - I have done things in my thirties that I would have found almost impossible in my teens and twenties - but depression has knocked that confidence on the head over the last couple of years, pretty much.

Writing is so much easier, isn't it? - which is why forums are such a help, I guess. I am happy to witter on for hours if I'm writing; speaking is practised much less often.

[rainbow8]

Writing is so much easier, isn't it? - which is why forums are such a help, I guess. I am happy to witter on for hours if I'm writing; speaking is practised much less often.

I agee 100%. I love to write and could go on and on. Since therapy, I learned to go on and on when I talk, too. But writing has always been my easiest and favorite way of communicating. I started a diary when I was 8 1/2 and have been never stopped keeping journals, writing letters, poems, stories, emailing, having pen pals, ever since then.

[theave]

I am not too bad about talking in therapy though it's hard work, but I find it very hard to talk about how I feel to anyone else (apart from my OH who is great). Even with that, I quite often have to write down how I feel before I can bring it up in therapy.

Do you look back at your old diaries, and do you feel it helps? I re-read mine from hospital a couple of months ago and that was hard because so many of the feelings I could still relate to and it became harder to ignore the fact that I didn't really feel "better", just was better at hiding it, even from myself.

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I agee 100%. I love to write and could go on and on. Since therapy, I learned to go on and on when I talk, too. But writing has always been my easiest and favorite way of communicating. I started a diary when I was 8 1/2 and have been never stopped keeping journals, writing letters, poems, stories, emailing, having pen pals, ever since then.