Connecting it all

I once asked T if she thought that some people were just intrinsically bad and deserved to die. That's how I feel, that there is just something in me that is so rotten, so horrible, that I don't deserve to live. I've lived my life trying to make up for 'it', trying to be so good, so honest, so kind and nice to make up for my inborn 'bad-ness'. But nothing I do seems to make that feeling of intrinsic darkness go away, even though it's not logical.

Soaking in the counter-examples and good thoughts here will slowly make that feeling of intrinsic darkness go away, as you realize that not everyone feels that way about you, so maybe there is another way of looking at it and your feeling is not the final answer.

I agree with Pachy, for me even though the feeling of being worthy is slow to come, the intellectual understanding that I did nothing wrong has made a difference. Im not really there yet, but the understanding that I am not bad, I am who and what I am and this is my story and why I am this or that way is helping to heal the way I react to people around me. Can you work on specifically why or what is so rotten about you that you feel you deserve to die? You might find that those things dont hold up well to scrutiny. That you arent the bad person or child you always believed you were. It is sloooow going I think for this kind of thing, going through your life and seeing things differently from the point of view of a person who wasnt at fault and not bad at all.

Big hugs...from one Moon to another

I'm late to this thread, Blue...but this resonated with me. I have reacted rather strongly to other moms and their kids. I work in a youth program, so I see it often. There have been a few times where I felt like crying at something so sweet and tender between a mom and her kid. Like when their kid is sick and they will rush in all worried and immediately comfort them. It always has baffled me, but I just want to push it away. I don't want to think that I react that way because I missed out on that in some way.

I fight it. All the time. Its harder for me to accept that my mom was anything but a great parent, because I don't really remember much and because I know there was never any abuse. So how can I complain? It is tough. Sigh. It IS going to be a long road, and I wish I knew how to connect to feelings, because I don't.

Velcro, your parents could have been neglectful and not abusive?

I really like where this thread is going. Expressing those bad childhood feelings in therapy would be a good idea. They need to be released so that their hold on you can be released.........

Velcro- this is how I feel often. There are times when my reaction is small, subtle and private and there are other times when I can feel myself getting teary. Or there are those times watching a mother and her baby gives me a warm feeling. When I am with my children in that way I feel almost jealous of myself and those tender, sweet loving moments can bring tears to my eyes.
I have the same difficulty connecting it to my childhood. And this is the primary way that I know I must have sad, hurt feelings about my mother because I dont remember ever feeling sad or hurt. She was abusive, but I dont remember wanting her to be another way. Or caring. I remember anger. And that is where I am at. For now.

Velcro, I want to give you a big hug I dont like tha "a" word. I dont like calling my mother's behavior abusive. Not because I thought she was a great mother, but because Im sure thought of her being abusive in any way to her children would be a ridiculous thought to her. Im sure she thought she wasnt perfect, but abusive? Never. And your mom was probably a good mother, but there could have been something that you felt you wanted but didnt get from her since you get these feelings when you see mothers and small kids.

What is it that you feel they are getting that you want?

I also tear up when witnessing certain things like children being treated tenderly, or being really heard/listened to, or being comforted, watching a children's play or musical or singing performance, all kinds of things like that. I do believe it is that child within that springs to life and recognizes what is still so important, who still hopes. I suppose that means the needs are still there.

Neglect isn't necessarily something intentional. It is misattunement, or maybe chronic misattunement, but not necessarily intentional. This is what I struggle with.. that my parents did do the best they knew how, and that should be enough. But it wasn't.

This made me hold my breath. That the child within still hopes. I guess the child within, no matter how old we are, remains small and still has some hope of getting what she always wanted. That takes my breath away.

That is so true. And even if the abuse or neglect was extreme, it could stil be unintentional. I am so glad you wrote that. It seems to me to be a very forgiving and peaceful attitude. No matter what our mothers did, it was most likely unintentional. And I believe that even the intentional meanness that I may have experienced was all she knew. It was how she reacted for whatever psychological reasons she may have had. I dont think I can ever really know all of those reasons.

They werent enough, and they should have known that. They might not have had all of the information that we have about how children should be treated when their natural inclination was to be mean, dismissive, invalidatiing etc. I find with my own children it is not easy to be consistently validating about every sentence they say to me. I try very hard and do the very best I can, but sometimes I want to say, "oh, c'mon! Enough!" I do the very best I can to listen to everything they say and listen for the feelings behind what they are saying. To be there and to validate, but it is work. And my mother? Was she going to put that much effort into being a mother? Not by a long shot.

Mine neither, St. Blue
In fact, she ridiculed mothers who were sweet and tender and loving.
And she ridiculed kids who needed their mothers.
And she ridiculed healthy, loving mother daughter relationships.

But you were able to be a wonderful mother. Not everyone is so fortunate to be able to do that, and I admire you very much for that.

YES. Times a Million!!! I'm still at the "it should be enough" part...maybe one day I will go past that, but I don't know.
I don't think I can even connect it to that, just noticed my reaction to it. Its something about how wanted and loved the children must feel with that connection with their mom. But, on the other hand, I cant say I felt unwanted. I don't know...blech!

Sigh...my mother used to do a lot of that. Talking about other people in a negative way and ridiculing tender relationships. She didnt have a tender bone in her body. She used to call eveyrone else sick, neurotic, abusive. Kind of ironic. I think it confused me a lot because she considered herself so above it all and perfect, but that wasnt the way it felt to me.

OMG Thank you, Echoes. Youre a really wonderful mom, too, you know?
I dont know how I have ever been able to do this. The only thing I can think of is that I sought treatment really young. I thought Id never get married and I never, ever thought about having kids. Then, as I got older (maybe later 20s) I thought, well, maybe I'll have 1. I never expected to have 6! I didnt think Id be great with kids. I was overwhlemed with my love for them when they were born and it struck me what a different family life I wanted for them. I think we all feel that way here.

Ahhh, the balance between your needs and theirs. They are both important. Maybe when you are feeling that you have had enough then it is your turn for the care? Our children need many things but we can't spoil them too much. If we make things too perfect for them we can actually handicap them when they get out into the world and the world doesn't make things so perfect.........