Yawning therapists

There was a thread recently where we were discussing Ts yawning in therapy. I dont think I posted a response b/c I had to think about it. I didnt agree with some of the responses, but I didnt say so. It has been on my mind, so I thought Id start a thread.

Im not convinced its Ok for a T to yawn while the client is talking. Now, in the context of a very close, long term relationship with your therapist where your T is taking a breath or yawns during casual conversation, I do see that its fine. But for the most part, if I am talking about something, even if its not riveting or about trauma or some crisis conversation, I think its not OK. Yes, Ts are human, but all we have there is them, each response to me is taken very seriously and I think my T knows that. Id feel like my therapist would rather not be listening to me if she yawned. Being so vulnerable in therapy I am struggling with those feelings even without a yawn to confirm it for me.

With all of that said, my previous therapist, desk-T, was a BIG yawner. Almost every session she'd yawn, not in a hand-convering-mouth sort of way. A BIIIIG realxing yawn. "Sorry, I just took a benadryl for my allergies." She did so many things that demonstrated to me that she was uninterested and had her mind on other things, the yawn was one more thing I just looked the other way about. And now I am super sensitive to T behavior that shows disinterest. I even thought (and I talked about this in therapy) that, like my mother, dt was showing me that I shouldnt take myself too seriously and that my difficulites were nothing compared to other people with "real" problems. She even said something to this effect to me at one point. So....I just may be sensitive to the yawning subject.

If ftt yawned, Id feel like it was some sort of message to me. A message of inattentiveness.

Any thoughts?

I'd think you are reading too much into a simple yawn based on your own insecurities. It isn't really about the yawn to you. It's about not feeling that you are important enough for someone to give you care. That's how it sounds to me anyway.

((((((((((((blue)))))))))))))))

I'm sorry desk T treated you like that.

My T has literally never yawned. But I have seen him sort of stifle a yawn a couple of times - and I looked away when he did it so he wouldn't feel bad ().

It really would feel weird to me if T YAWNED. Maybe at the end of session when we were doing the receipt or something.

I know for a fact that my sessions make T sleepy sometimes, because *I* feel really sleepy...I'll dissociate and drift off and T tells me later that he felt lonely and sleepy...or I'll lay on the couch with a blanket and feel SO safe and tired. I don't know how he DOESN'T yawn, honestly.

My T yawns. Gosh her day begins at 9am and I am seeing her at 7 or 8 or even 9 pm. I imagine she is getting a bit tired by then. (Even though she naps. She never says she does, but I see evidence of 'nap hair' sometimes. I think it's kind of cute )
But even when she does yawn, and it's a stifled yawn, she is attentive and engaged as well.
Sometimes I yawn too

My T has yawned before. It is has made me feel the way you are describing (i.e. unimportant, like she's bored, etc.). But the thing is, when we have talked about it, she's had the chance to explain what she was really feeling then (i.e. that she wasn't feeling the way I assumed, that she'd had a headache but she wasn't bored, etc.).

Your feelings are all valid, it is a vulnerable position to be in, and I've felt similarly...but maybe it's also a good opportunity to reflect on how T's are just human too? I do agree that how your other T openly yawned w/o apology is quite rude. But to stiffle a yawn and apologize and then make efforts to show that they are not in fact bored -- it just seems to me about the best "human" response one could hope for in that situation.

I find it interesting that our reactions to a yawn seem to elicit a personal response from any one of us according to who we are. I don't ever remember former T yawning, but I think if he did, I'd be wondering if he was tired and overworked or something...I'd kick in with my typical protective response. And, Blue, it seems it would cause you to feel unattended to and not heard. I'm sorry DT behaved this way with you and that you felt this way.

Maybe our own person response to a therapist's yawn has more to do with us and our internal interpretations of how we are being received (or our remembrances of how we were received in the past) by others, than it does the therapist's actual feelings in the moment.

Blue - well I think you are very brave to be honest with your T in this way. And I fully concure that it really is not professional to just let out a yawn. If it does happen, a T had better make sure the client is SAFE in all ways that count! It would be such a hard job to be a T. And it takes a very strong person to be able to let a T know how we interpret what we see and feel about everything that happens in session. Working out the human issues of the T relationship is so so important.

In 7 years I never saw my T yawn. She even brought it up once when we were talking about why I like therapy so much. She said "I give you my complete attention, I never yawn....." My T was professional in that way. I think if a T does yawn, he should apologize. I'm sorry dt was so unprofessional, but I don't think she realized it was wrong. Just like my T doesn't think it's wrong to be so blunt with me.

I totally agree. Why should someone have to apologize for our misinterpretations?

Hi BlueMoon-

I think this is interesting. And like you, if T was yawning during my session I would feel really upset and would immediately think it was because T is sick of me or bored of me. And that T has better things to be doing than listening to me.......but, I can see how this is my personal issue.

However, it also makes me think, because at your job, do you yawn when you are talking to people? Or do you remember teachers yawning in class? Or a pastor during a church thing?
I don't.
So, while I understand that yawning is not necessarily controllable, I think it needs to be explained and especially with clients who are sensitive.... ie. Blue-I am sorry I yawned, I had a headache last night and did not get much sleep. It has nothing to do with you. ok?

My T has yawned twice in 6 months, both times when I was talking about my boyfriend. I said to him the first time, "Sorry...I know, he bores me, too!!" He laughed and said he wasn't bored. I do think it's kind of ironic that both yawns have occurred during discussion of my boyfriend, since my boyfriend is not a regular topic for us to discuss.

With that being said, I think a yawn itself is really not a big deal...Ts are busy people, too, and are allowed to be tired. I think it is more about the way they conduct your therapy as a whole and if you are satisfied with the level of treatment you are getting that really counts. If it is a symptom of a larger problem, then you will certainly know it!

Interesting responses. WPowers, do you remember in the other thread you said something to the poster about her T yawning? The poster's T had been rambling on about some political thing (?) for much of her session. And you responded that maybe T would have stopped her rambling had she yawned in the way her T did! I found that response really...something. Your response stayed with me. I wonder what dt would have done if I had yawned, too (eh, she wouldnt have cared).

I think a yawn is not necessarily our misinterpretation. It sends a non-verbal message. It may be that the T is tired or whatnot, but it does send a message and I think a T would know that. Or why would a T stiffle a yawn...or even resist a yawn? Now, Im not saying in those very close, comfortable T situations in casual conversation, but in deeper conversation.

I probably wouldnt want to yawn if a friend is telling me something really important or confiding in me, would I?

If ftt yawned (which she never has) I dont think for a second Id feel unattended to or unheard, but if she made it a habit, Id wonder what was going on. And if I were working on a memory that caused me trauma and she yawned right then, Id feel real strange. Dt did that and I immediately pulled back. It was a reflex response to her lack of caring and compassion for me at that moment. I wasnt misinterpreting anything, she just didnt think I needed to go where I went and wasnt going to listen. I completely shut down immediately.

But again, Ts are human and if they do let out a yawn (or have nap hair...that is SO FUNNY! What does her hair look like Echoes????) they can say something to let us know we arent losing their atteniton. I think WPowers, you are right in that they need to make sure their client feels cared about in that moment. They do have this hard job, they must give who they are in that moment. Jeez....glad Im on this side of the "desk"

(I am SO glad I didnt have this much to say about hugs )

I've seen my T stifle a yawn many times....and it sometimes gives me that twinge of feeling unimportant....but it doesn't take much for me to feel that way, in many situations. So, I know it's more me than anything. T is human, after all. And at least he stifles the yawn instead of yawning outright...

As an aside, I noticed that whenever I bring up anything of a sexual nature, which I avoid at all costs because of my triggery issues, my T smacks his lips before responding....I wonder what that's about...

As I posted in the previous "yawn" post - it is a human response. As much as we as T's hate it as well, it happens.

But, I do believe if you're going to yawn, do it as gracefully as possible. Not a b-i-i-i-g, opened mouth yawn. That's disrespectful, and I'm sorry she didn't realize that.

my t doesn't normally yawn..or at least i don't notice it (maybe if i looked at her i would) but last week she did a few times)...i didn't get upset..just figured that the kids (4) must have been making her crazy or something or whatever...also i see her smack dab in the middle of her marathon day and its lunch time..so that could have been it too.

or maybe i just bored her to tears...it happens..didn't crush me or anything...maybe i was droning on about something really really mind numbing..so much so i can't even recall what it was now...

anyway... she sits in the room, no windows, all day listening to people babble on about stuff...i'd like to think my stuff is so earth shatteringly stimulating that it keeps her on the edge of her seat and wide awake but hey sometimes ...well one day i fell asleep in there too (okay it was a reaction to some new meds but....)

i guess i'm trying to say..we all have good & bad days..some times i need a bucket of coffee to stay awake and in focus...i'm sure t feels the same way too...if it happens every time and then she starts to snore and drool..well then thats another story....(and not a pretty picture either!)

stumpy

I remember early in therapy T yawned (with his hand over his mouth) and I asked if I was boring him! Now I've seen him stifle a few here and there. I was upset the first time and also felt it was a sign of inattentiveness. Now, I think along the lines of: 1. T's are just people and sometimes they are tired; 2. Sometimes T might get bored if I am not "being real;" 3. He may be tired but he respects me enough to stifle the yawn. So, in other words, it takes two to tango. But I do think a personal response is normal because it's an intimate relationship. I respond to a yawn the same way I would respond to anything that T did in session--it's part of the session.

I think all of these responses are interesting too.
This is what has caught my attention....

I think it's interesting that she brought this up without even yawning! But I agree....when something captures someone's full attention and is interesting to them, there is no need to yawn.

I totally agree with this. Good analogy

This made me giggle....very curious.

In general, I've been thinking about this topic, and it occurred to me that my biggest issue is not that I feel she finds me boring. (although I think that is part of it)

When she yawns I feel guilty. It triggers me to want to take care of her needs. So, she is tired and I am keeping her from getting her work done and going home. Especially when I am her last client of the day.
I feel like I am preventing her from getting her needs met. And it feels awful.
I am thinking about the possibility of bringing it up with her, but for some reason that really scares me.

could be that a T is so relaxed with a client that there body begins to respond? I'm sure there are multiple reasons, we can put oir own meaning to it, but that doesn't make it coreect. I'm sure at times some of us do bore our T's lol..how narcisstic to expeCt perfection?

I think that is what really gets to me here, is how much perfection is really expected of t's by many posters here. Some posters say their t is human on one hand and then can't forgive t's imperfections on the other, sometimes leading to major crises. It's like every slight move, every word they say is scrutinized under a microscope and judged to be a fault of theirs--unprofessional, etc. Who can hold up to that kind of standard? No one.

Am I misunderstanding you here, or are you truly calling everyone on this thread who is bothered by a T's yawning narcissitic?

I think this is an extreme exaggeration of the issues presented here. I hear others saying that, yes, it is understandable that T's are human and sometimes yawns are unavoidable. But feelings in reaction to a yawn are also unavoidable. We only have control with what we do with those feelings. And I don't hear anyone saying that they are leaving their therapist or having any kind of 'major crisis' because of a yawn.

Please, just because you feel strongly about something, don't mis-state what other's have said to try to prove your point.

Didn't sound like an accusation to me. It sounded like an observation and self-relfection.

The need is narcisstic, does that help?

The first time my T yawned he apologized and started to assure me that it was not me. He was tired blah, blah, blah. And then went on to tell me about someone who he had talked to that quit seeing their T because she kept yawning. He seemed panicked about me not seeing him anymore because of it. (this was like the 2nd session and he knew I did NOT want to be in therapy) I'll admit, at first I was like, oh great, I'm already boring him!! But after I left and thought about this a bit I realized that I yawn alot even when I'm not bored. I do it when I'm relaxed and even when I've been out at the park. I know that I am a shallow breather. And that causes a build up of carbon dioxide so you'll yawn because it makes you draw in more oxygen.

My T still does the occasional yawn and I'll just tease him about it. Usually it'll make me yawn too and I'll say way to go... now you got me doing it!

Well, first off, I can't tell you how many times I've yawned reading this thread, God those things are highly contagious - even through the internets. Just talking about yawning drew me into it.

Second, you know, if the therapist was sitting there, as a friend would, and listening to us, it would be much more understandable and acceptable if they yawned. But, well, they aren't. Most of us pay our therapists, and no small amount. I would have a considerable issue if I were dealing with an investment manager, lawyer, physician, or heck my dry cleaner if they yawned a lot when I was paying for their time. Stripping this down to brass tacks (yes it's more complicated than that, but) I'm paying for their attention and treatment, not their tiredness. If this were a continual thing, well, I would seriously consider moving on.

Third, as another posted indicated, it all has to be considered within the context of the therapy, and a therapist is not an investment manager. However, we are entitled to our interpretation of something as simple (yet complicated) as a yawn. It's not narcissm to react, IMO, a completely understandable way, to when our therapist does something that we perceive to be disinterest. Their behaviour can actually reflect a very unprofessional and sloppy therapist.

My EMDR T yawns at times. I love this therapists. She is awesome. I just laugh and so does she. I never have thought it was anything about me. Its funny. She is tired sometimes and it has nothing to do with me. She works hard.