[velcro003]

So I have been reading more about body psychotherapy and more cognitive therapy (at the same time...hehe), and they both really come from a totally different place.

Body Psychotherapy:
Traditional "talk therapies" attempt to change your emotions or behavior by changing your thoughts (i.e. through the left brain). Body psychotherapy works in the reverse, by using the body and your emotions to change how your nervous system responds. That is, it works through the right brain, not the left.
You see, although thoughts can marginally change our emotions, it is far more efficient - in terms of the way the brain is designed to work "from the bottom up". Body psychotherapy enables the brain to update its emotional wiring naturally (i.e. using the right brain), rather than willfully trying to impose change "from the top down" using thoughts (i.e. through the left brain).
If you think of the times you've tried to make yourself feel (or not feel) a certain way, you'll see that using a left-brain strategy to change a right-brain-based emotion is a prescription for futility.

CBT:
Our emotions and behaviors result mainly from our beliefs and self-talk statements rather than from the actual unpleasant events and situations in our lives. Basically, an event happens, we hold our rational or irrational beliefs about it in relation to ourselves/others/the world...and then the consequences of how we feel happen. We should replace our irrational emotions (self-destructive) with rational emotions, ones that help oneself and are less harming. The basic tenet is that we cause our own emotions, not the events.

What is interesting is I see merit in both. I know like life, there is not one black and white answer...but these therapies are two totally different theories. BUT, I have such a hard time with the theory that if you smile long enough, you'll be happy. I get the point, that if you ACT happy long enough, your brain will change and you will start feeling happy.

That is in my opinion, the simplest way to put how CBT works. That you recognize your negative thoughts, change them to positive ones...and if you work on it hard and long enough, you will come to believe the positive ones.

What I don't get is why you suddenly would believe "I have great qualities" suddenly? Just because you told yourself so? I think it can sort of work, but there was a reason why you thought of yourself negatively in the first place, and how do you un-learn that?

Body psychotherapy to me is all "new-agey." And I AM more new agey! I find it interesting that the body holds all the memories, and that it was felt first and then you ascribed thoughts to it. I certainly know where I hold my stress/anxiety. When I am upset, my T always asks me where I am feeling it, and I always say "My heart is racing and I feel like I'm going to throw up." So, according to this theory, if you change the nervous system, you will change your thoughts/feelings.

So....lets hear thoughts on this!

[Perna]

I think there are lots of other therapies inbetween those two. I think the relationship with my T was most beneficial to me rather than particular conversations/talk. I don't see it as having been intellectual at all.

Originally Posted by velcro003

That is in my opinion, the simplest way to put how CBT works. That you recognize your negative thoughts, change them to positive ones...and if you work on it hard and long enough, you will come to believe the positive ones.

What I don't get is why you suddenly would believe "I have great qualities" suddenly? Just because you told yourself so? I think it can sort of work, but there was a reason why you thought of yourself negatively in the first place, and how do you un-learn that?

So....lets hear thoughts on this!

I think your definition of CBT is inaccurate. In CBT, we are learning to recognize when our thoughts are irrational (rather than negative), and we learn to replace our irrational thinking with rational thinking (rather than positive). It may seem like a minor distinction, but I don't think it is. The use of "positive" thoughts gives a mistaken impression of a certain Pollyannaishness (hows that for a word) surrounding CBT. That has not been my experience at all. It isn't about changing thoughts "suddenly" either. It's a process like all therapy techniques are a process. And you do explore why you came about those irrational thoughts in the first place. That's very important to understand; it's part of the way you counter irrational thinking.

[velcro003]

Oh there definitely are, perna. I also wasn't saying cognitive therapy is all based on the intellectual. I know it's much more complicated and in depth than what I posted. I just find I interesting he differences in thought between the two.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by velcro003

Traditional "talk therapies" attempt to change your emotions or behavior by changing your thoughts (i.e. through the left brain). Body psychotherapy works in the reverse, by using the body and your emotions to change how your nervous system responds. That is, it works through the right brain, not the left.

I don't agree with this. I do only traditional talk therapy with my T, and he does not try to change my emotions, thoughts, or behaviors. Instead he does exactly what you say body therapy does--he uses the right brain not the left. And any change that happens is what I do, not something my T does.

Originally Posted by velcro003

You see, although thoughts can marginally change our emotions, it is far more efficient - in terms of the way the brain is designed to work "from the bottom up". Body psychotherapy enables the brain to update its emotional wiring naturally (i.e. using the right brain), rather than willfully trying to impose change "from the top down" using thoughts (i.e. through the left brain).

This is how my talk therapy is. We work from the bottom up. Working from the top down seems like a band-aid approach to me, and it doesn't seem like it would result in healing--at least with my particular wounds. My therapy is all about healing.

I guess I don't agree with how you have defined talk therapy. I don't see the dichotomy you have set up but find that my talk therapy has a lot in common with how you define body therapy. I don't think I'm the only one with this type of talk therapy.

I think there are lots of therapies out there, and we do need to find what works for us--a very individual solution.

Originally Posted by velcro003

Body psychotherapy to me is all "new-agey."

Hmmm, I wonder if my talk therapy is new agey? I like this thought, for some reason. Velcro, like me, you have expressed some hesitation about bodywork. Do you think that talk therapy that is more bottom up and healing-focused, rather than top down and changing-thoughts-focused, would appeal to you? (Or perhaps that is the type of talk therapy you already have?)

Originally Posted by velcro003

And I AM more new agey!

Hmmmm, maybe I am too! I never thought of myself that way before, but maybe I am. I don't have the trappings, like believing in crystals or astrology, but maybe at heart I do align with some of the core beliefs.

Nice post.

[velcro003]

Farmer, I did use rational and irrational first, so sorry! I agree that we need to learn and recognize those thoughts to heal.

[Perna]

I think we should have some of "both" types of therapy as we are "whole" people, not just our bodies or just our heads and I don't think one way or another is better/worse or complete in itself! I think it's like the nature/nuture controversy because there seems to be a lot of trying to make discreet sections of ourselves in the West. We talk of physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, etc. but one can't really separate those out I don't think.

[velcro003]

Sunny, I copied that bit about what talk therpaies do from the body psychotherapy site, those were not my words

I think my therapy is more along the lines of the body psychotherapy in the fact that she doesn't try to change my thoughts, but acknowledges them and maybe suggests that maybe I not be so hard on myself

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by Perna

I think we should have some of "both" types of therapy as we are "whole" people, not just our bodies or just our heads and I don't think one way or another is better/worse or complete in itself! I think it's like the nature/nuture controversy because there seems to be a lot of trying to make discreet sections of ourselves in the West. We talk of physical, mental, emotional, spiritual, etc. but one can't really separate those out I don't think.

I agree with you, I am just making this "black and white" type thinking more for the sake of discussion.

[chaotic13]

I do think that there are benefits to be gained by working through the body in addition to talk therapy. I recently started experimenting with Qi Gong. I think experimenting with movement patterns and getting more into our physical body can have an affect on changing our moods and behaviors.