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Seeker
Member Since Jun 2010
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#1
After 16 years of so-called Counseling, and Talk Therapy, I finally threw in the towel. All I was getting was an hour every 2 weeks to listen to myself, and if i was lucky, some social interaction with a sensitive and knowledgible individual. If i was unlucky, I got disturbed and distressed by some unmindful and unskillful provocateur. I will say that I found some usefullness in DBT (Dialectical Behavioral Training), but less than in Awareness Meditation and Calm Abiding Meditation. In the end one concludes that since the actual work must be done by oneself, why not try some self-directed techniques ?
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Account Suspended
Member Since Jul 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 1,946
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#2
oh your post shows little understanding of a good theraputic alliance, I'm sorry for that, I've gained so much out of therapy. I tried for yrs to do it alone, a narcissitc defence, but found becoming vunrable is very benefical.
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Member
Member Since Jun 2010
Location: East Coast
Posts: 45
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#3
Good morning Gus,
I agree with Melbadaze: what a tragedy to have been in therapy for 16 years and not gained much, this would be heartbreaking for me. I was in therapy for 9 years due to severe and complex PTSD and found it life-saving. Overall, the literature (and my own experience) suggests that the initial 25 sessions is where the most change occurs for most individuals (~75% of those in treatment), then sessions 26-50 see less change or growth (10-20% more change). Beyond this, limited growth/change occurs for most (not all). The main problem I see is that clients have too often come to accept mediocre or even very poor therapy, often b/c they don't know better or b/c this is too much of what occurs and it has become commonplace. I always suggest an initial meeting (no fee) to see if the client and I will be compatible and for the client to interview me. For example, if they have an eating disorder I quickly refer since this is not an area of expertise for me; however, if the issues surround Bipolar Disorder, Schizophrenia or Borderline Personality Disorder, or couples and family therapy, this is where I can be of greatest service. Clients should interview their therapist and Pdoc before therapy starts, much like they would a prospective employee, a plumber, electrician or gardener-- but most don't and end up in treatment too long and with less than optimal or even negative results. In the initial "meet and greet" visit, if the client asks no questions b/c they are not well informed or fully engaged, then I ask the questions for them:
I'm glad you've stepped out on your own and have taken up meditation, I wish more folks would follow your lead. Good luck Gus and I hope this helps, Baaku __________________ Last edited by Baaku; Jun 19, 2010 at 06:53 AM.. |
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Member
Member Since Jun 2010
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#4
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__________________ After two years of silence, my therapist finally spoke and it brought me to tears - -he said, "No hablo ingles." |
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Member
Member Since Jun 2010
Location: East Coast
Posts: 45
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#5
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Thanks for that clarification. __________________ |
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Grand Member
Member Since Dec 2008
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#6
Gus, I am happy that this has worked out well for you. I think it is essential to find a therapist that fits and is a good match. And of course having a qualified therapist is very important.
Sometimes I can't believe how fortunate I was. I picked my therapist simply because he was the only one who I could drive to that wasn't over a bridge. Highway phobic... I exchanged several emails with him, but that was it. He ended up being a perfect match. This is highly unusual, though, I would imagine. My therapist also believed in the powerful punch of brief therapy. I only had about 25 sessions with him and it seems to have worked quite well. But then I did not have have any major conditions going in either...aside from some mild depression and anxiety. I imagine length of time would depend on the individual and their specific needs. I'm glad that therapy was helpful for you, Baaku. |
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Gus1234U
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#7
Baaku, Thanks for your interest and advice. It's clear that I could have used someone like you, after i regained some of my cognitive functions. I continued so long in counseling without significant progress because i was so Isolated, my counselor provided half of my human contact, which for years was only 4 to 8 hrs per month, for months on end. Support Services failed me, believing that psychiatric symptoms were ugly and didn't have to be tolerated, weren't "really disabling", etc., a very rural and lagging social environment. The wonderful thing about relinquishing my counselor was that I had been able to develope a more natural social support system, doing volunteer work and developing a part-time job helping people like myself. This is a dream come true for me, and I try to turn away from worrying that I will fail, mess it up, be found unacceptable, etc. Learning to let go is apparently not a one-time lesson,, LOL
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Seeker
Member Since Jun 2010
Location: Here
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#8
I have not seen any other threads or links leading to people with an "Acquired" brain chemistry disorder. This adds a whole new dimension to the recovery process. I don't know how many of you have seen individuals who have had "bad reactions" to psych meds, but it is truely horrifying to be one of them. When I began my "self-directed rehabilitation" the doctors laughed at me, and said the damages were permanent. I have proved them wrong, even tho it took 18 years to do so. Just let me encourage all of you who read this to NEVER stop working for a full recovery, never settle for just symptom management, and always believe that, as long as we are alive, there is no better use of our time than learning how to be better people, more kind, less afraid, wiser and gentler. Climb that mountain, because it's there.
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Pandita-in-training
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#9
Gus, I can imagine how well you have done. My tai chi teacher was in a horrible motorcycle accident and had severe head and body injuries which had psychiatric ramifications but started learning tai chi in the hospital from a fellow patient and took it up seriously and we, his students 10+ years later couldn't tell he'd been in such an accident.
I'm very glad you figured out what would work for you and made it happen. __________________ "Never give a sword to a man who can't dance." ~Confucius |
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Legendary
Member Since Jan 2007
Location: U.S.
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#10
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__________________ "Therapists are experts at developing therapeutic relationships." |
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Indie'sOK
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Grand Magnate
Member Since Jun 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,584
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#11
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__________________ Only you can prevent neurotypical jerkiness!
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Grand Magnate
Member Since Dec 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,124
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#12
most studies i've read have confirmed what baku has posted. however, i'm well over the 100+ session mark, and i know the benefits for me have only increased exponentially recently.
not everyone goes into therapy with the same issues. i accept that most people find limited benefit for therapy after x number, but that hasn't been my experience and i only need to focus on what is working for me. gus - i have recently (like, literally within the past week) started looking into various forms of meditation. that's the pull i'm getting as the next step for me. it's exciting to see someone else have benefited from this. i have been drawn to zazen in particular, but i'm not sure about the differences between approaches. i want something secular, but with a focus on awareness, not "relaxation". |
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Member
Member Since Jun 2010
Location: East Coast
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#13
Good morning Sunrise and Indie,
I know the stats can be disconcerting, but I want to keep them in perspective: these outcomes are for only ~75% of the population that seeks treatment, the remaining ~25% continue to benefit and grow greatly from longer term therapy and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that (hopefully that's not what I'm suggesting, especially in light of my own 9 years of therapy for severe and complex PTSD). It depends largely on the condition and it's severity and duration that one seeks help for, the competence of the clinician, how much the client is really willing to work for change, the clients social and cultural make-up, the client's temperament, the client's support system, and so many variables having little to do with the actual treatment itself. Thanks for responding to my posts and I hope this clarifies this a bit, Baaku __________________ |
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Indie'sOK
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Location: UK
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#14
Sunrise, I wouldnt take to much from someones opinion on a message board, one doesnt know what motivation lies behind such posts. I'd go to therapy for ever, Infact I think I will lol!
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sittingatwatersedge
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#15
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If anyone ever hears a therapist say that he/she can help you feel better in 15 sessions, without having met you or learned about your problems, he/she is at best trying to instill hope, or at worst naive and is going to blame you if CBT or some other short-term therapy is not helping you. __________________ After two years of silence, my therapist finally spoke and it brought me to tears - -he said, "No hablo ingles." |
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Member
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Location: East Coast
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#16
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Quote:
I think my main point is more about whether we are getting the right therapy for ourselves at the right amount and at the right time, and is it effective. Nothing more really matters. __________________ Last edited by Baaku; Jun 20, 2010 at 08:20 AM.. |
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Legendary
Member Since Jan 2007
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#17
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Well, that's a big diversion, from your original post, Gus, but I find this idea that most people don't change after 26 sessions to be somewhat lacking in data interpretation. I think a number of people may stop changing after 26 sessions (or whatever) because they exhaust the therapist's skill set. They've gotten all the benefit they can from that practitioner, so they do stop growing. The best solution is to move on, which they do--either finding a new therapist or just relying on self, as you Gus are now doing--and then they show up as misleading statistics in studies such as the one cited. Gus, I wish you well with the meditation. I took a mindfulness meditation class a few months ago and have found it useful at the times I can remember to give it a try. For me, it's almost like a new habit I'm trying to incorporate, and it takes effort and memory to keep with it. Good luck. (I did find taking a class in this technique to be really useful and reinforcing and motivating.) __________________ "Therapists are experts at developing therapeutic relationships." Last edited by sunrise; Jun 20, 2010 at 02:56 PM.. |
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Fartraveler, pachyderm
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#18
I find even a year and a half removed from my last therapy session that I am still extremely sensitive and protective of the experience. All I have to do is read something about how transference interferes with therapy or a description of therapy being presented in a "correct" way which didn't occur for me in my therapy, and my blood starts to boil. Therapy is a unique experience...as intense as it is limited...and the journey belongs to us. I have always wanted to hold that experience and still very much treasure this short time in my life that I shared with my therapist.
In my second to last session, my former therapist told me about the very same study. He did so very gently and, by doing so, nudged me toward the door. I think in my case I was (mostly) ready and so it worked for me. Was it a bit too soon? I think maybe. My therapy wasn't perfect, but it was mine and I keep that by living now what I learned during my time there. He told me once that transference was "just a word." The word itself can't possibly minimize my experience or my feelings from my experience. Letters don't define an experience. Numbers are numbers too. They are useful as a guide, much like a diagnosis is. But, Sunrise, you know well how healing your experience in therapy has been and continues to be. And that belongs to you. I've known Baaku for about a year now. He's helped me in a dark hour or two. I never did get an invoice for those services... |
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pachyderm
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#19
i think when one has really finished with therapy, figures would feel irralivant, therapy is a personal journey of love, figures can and are misguilding at best. Who attracts me the most are those that speak from the heart, those that live their life in the wprld of stats and numbers do not have much to say, in my mind. I'm sure stats and figureS are very, eemm, rewarding?
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pachyderm
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#20
I'm definitely a speaks from the heart type of person. Everyone has different styles and approaches to life and what works best for them. I imagine also the way one approaches therapy...The beauty of diversity...
I also have a strong tendency to want to protect and take care of my friends, as I was trying to do here with both of them. Last edited by Brightheart; Jun 21, 2010 at 02:08 AM.. |
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