[mixedup_emotions]

I opened the session exactly how I planned....and T understood how I felt.

Initially, he provided some explanation but then dug deeper within himself to find out why he would've gone that route. He said that at the time, he was feeling frightened, helpless - and angry that I seemed as though I was "giving up". He realizes that it was an awful thing to say that he had to question whether or not to continue working with me, but it was out of desperation - and that he wanted to jolt me back to reality.

I explained a little bit about how I felt - and how hearing his feelings was much more helpful to me than the threat of termination. He didn't really see it as a threat, but rather stating his limit.

I told him that it helped create distance between us. He commented about how we probably have the most honest relationship that I've had in a while - that we enjoy each other - like the work on certain levels - that we can laugh, be serious, be open to talk about difficult things...and that kind of relationship is hard to come by, and takes a lot of work to build.

Some other things were said, but it's a blur at the moment.....

After the session, I decided to document my feeling process that led to me reaching out to T in the first place...and how I experienced him during that awful session...and how I felt as a result of his approach towards me - in great detail. I am hopeful that it will prove helpful to both of us.

Whew.

I hate ruptures. At the moment, I'm still feeling somewhat distant from T....but in a way, that distance is allowing me to breathe a sigh of independence which is safe and familiar - instead of getting caught up in the despair I would typically feel if I immersed myself in that kind of vulnerability right now.

[Perna]

Glad you all are working through this.

[zooropa]

wow, MUE, that took a lot of courage. I'm proud of you!

I'm also proud of your T for being willing to admit his part in it and being honest with you about how he was feeling in that moment. I know a lot of people here said that he might have threatened termination as a way to shock you, but hearing it from him must have felt good in a way. At the same time, if that was me, I would feel distant from T too. It's great that he was open with you about his feelings, but knowing he is willing to say something so drastic and hurtful to you out of desperation isn't the best feeling ever.

I just think you are doing great working through this. Ruptures are hard, so hard. It makes me wonder why I create so many of them in my head, lol!

[mixedup_emotions]

Thanks, Perna & zoo....

I realize that T said what he said to shock me....but at the same time, he promotes honesty and authenticity, so I also felt that he was serious with what he said.

We are pretty straight-forward with each other - although it takes me time to work through what I'm feeling and bring myself to gain the courage to express it, at times.

I sent him an email of what I documented about the whole thing that transpired...I am hoping it will help him learn about himself a little bit from the client's perspective, because I would hate for someone who is maybe less intuitive or psychologically minded to take a more destructive path as a result. Also, it may be something that we can pick apart for my benefit as well, to explore why I react the way I do, feel the way I do, etc.

I was brutally honest...and I am feeling a bit anxious about knowing that he will read it. Yuck. But, it's the only way to get it out there and learn from it...right?

[googley]

MUE-
I'm so glad you were able to talk about this with your T and he was able to reflect on what he had said and was able to hear how you felt. I think that if something like that had happened to me I would not necessarily feel comfortable after one session of talking about what happened. I think it would take me a while to build up that trust again, and until that happened there would be space in the relationship. I think that is totally normal. Even after talking about an upset, that does not mean that things have to or need to go back to how they were before it happened. And it can take time to repair a rupture. They are not (sadly) always fixed in one session.

[mixedup_emotions]

Originally Posted by googley

MUE-
I'm so glad you were able to talk about this with your T and he was able to reflect on what he had said and was able to hear how you felt. I think that if something like that had happened to me I would not necessarily feel comfortable after one session of talking about what happened. I think it would take me a while to build up that trust again, and until that happened there would be space in the relationship. I think that is totally normal. Even after talking about an upset, that does not mean that things have to or need to go back to how they were before it happened. And it can take time to repair a rupture. They are not (sadly) always fixed in one session.

Thanks, googley...

I remember T telling me that feelings don't always just change based on understanding. I am not sure what it will take to bridge the gap...or if I even want to...Feeling too close is painful and scary.

[Oceanwave]

MUE, what did you end up doing about visiting or not visiting your neighbour? The thing that started this whole rupture, right? What action did you end up taking about that?

[mixedup_emotions]

Originally Posted by Oceanwave

MUE, what did you end up doing about visiting or not visiting your neighbour? The thing that started this whole rupture, right? What action did you end up taking about that?

I ended up not visiting my neighbor...and not even addressing it with them. I didn't call them. They didn't call me. So, basically, you can say that I'm avoiding the situation altogether....It's going to come and bite me sooner or later, so I have to figure out how I'm going to handle it.

It's really, really hard sometimes having an unstable person who violated you in the past living right across the street.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

At the moment, I'm still feeling somewhat distant from T....but in a way, that distance is allowing me to breathe a sigh of independence which is safe and familiar - instead of getting caught up in the despair I would typically feel if I immersed myself in that kind of vulnerability right now.

Maybe this distance that is allowing you independence instead of vulnerability is simply you being empowered to take care of yourself with healthy boundaries and meeting your needs. This is what healthy people do and you just did it!!!

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

Feeling too close is painful and scary.

But remember, when you can control your boundaries, be empowered and meet your needs like you did in this session, being close is not scary. It is scary to be close when you are not empowered, cannot meet your needs and cannot control your boundaries, like when you were young and earlier in your life when you didn't know how. These 3 skills (empowerment, healthy boundaries and ability to meet your needs) is what brings sanity, safety, and healthy functioning.

[Oceanwave]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

I ended up not visiting my neighbor...and not even addressing it with them. I didn't call them. They didn't call me. So, basically, you can say that I'm avoiding the situation altogether....It's going to come and bite me sooner or later, so I have to figure out how I'm going to handle it.

Just wondering, do you think that the rupture, and how distanced you feel now from T, have to do with this too, i.e., avoiding the situation, as you say? So you focus your emotions on T but the real-life issue is still there, waiting for you in the dark, to sort out?

[WePow]

MU - you took care of YOU with your session!! I am so glad for you! Did you leave feeling a bit more empowered and a little stronger perhaps? :-) Way to go!

[mixedup_emotions]

Originally Posted by Sannah

Maybe this distance that is allowing you independence instead of vulnerability is simply you being empowered to take care of yourself with healthy boundaries and meeting your needs. This is what healthy people do and you just did it!!!

But remember, when you can control your boundaries, be empowered and meet your needs like you did in this session, being close is not scary. It is scary to be close when you are not empowered, cannot meet your needs and cannot control your boundaries, like when you were young and earlier in your life when you didn't know how. These 3 skills (empowerment, healthy boundaries and ability to meet your needs) is what brings sanity, safety, and healthy functioning.

Wow, Sannah, I never would've thought of that!

What I've found though is that it takes me time to work through my feelings of fear and then build up the courage to address an issue that I believe needs to be addressed. It's scary, and it's hard. And I most certainly find myself not having the courage to do it on-the-spot which is what gets me in trouble IRL. I have to work through that fear and feel that I am worthy enough of better treatment - quicker - so that I don't end up in dangerous situations.....Something for me to think about. Thanks.

[mixedup_emotions]

Originally Posted by Oceanwave

Just wondering, do you think that the rupture, and how distanced you feel now from T, have to do with this too, i.e., avoiding the situation, as you say? So you focus your emotions on T but the real-life issue is still there, waiting for you in the dark, to sort out?

Hmm, that's worth exploring....although I do believe that my feelings about T are justified. Just the act of him threatening termination while I was feeling so down is so, so awful - and that, in itself, is causing me to feel distant from him. How I can let myself feel close, vulnerable, open to a person who would try to hurt me? That's the perspective I have at the moment. But I'm working it out with T, and hopefully we can bridge that gap.

The real life situation is what it is. It's nothing new, really. I've been shutting myself out from friends IRL for quite a while now, so I know they are not surprised by me. And if they walk away from our friendship, I would understand. Honestly, they are not healthy people and I can't make them a figural part of my life. There are many, many things that I deal with, hanging over my head. The mere fact that he lives right across the street is one clear example. Yuck.

[mixedup_emotions]

Originally Posted by WePow

MU - you took care of YOU with your session!! I am so glad for you! Did you leave feeling a bit more empowered and a little stronger perhaps? :-) Way to go!

Thanks, WePow...When I think about how I addressed it straight on with T, I feel good about myself. I had the strength and courage to address it. Go me! But I'd be lying if I said that some of his responses weren't hard to hear, or painful.

Now that I sent him that detailed email, I know he has a better understanding of what was going on and how I feel. I guess we'll be addressing it in my next session on Thursday. I wonder what his take of it is.....hmm....

(((((((((MUE))))))))

I wonder if your T would be willing to just be honest when he feels helpless and frightened instead of threatening you?

My T has told me at times when he has been scared for me, and when he's been at a loss as to how to help me. When he's honest in that way, then it gives us a starting point for figuring it out together instead of me feeling scared and just shutting down.

I think you handled it really well. I'm finding that over time, I'm learning to identify how I feel and what I need much more quickly. I think for people like us who have never been taught to do that, it just takes time. But we can get there

[mixedup_emotions]

Originally Posted by treehouse

(((((((((MUE))))))))

I wonder if your T would be willing to just be honest when he feels helpless and frightened instead of threatening you?

My T has told me at times when he has been scared for me, and when he's been at a loss as to how to help me. When he's honest in that way, then it gives us a starting point for figuring it out together instead of me feeling scared and just shutting down.

I think you handled it really well. I'm finding that over time, I'm learning to identify how I feel and what I need much more quickly. I think for people like us who have never been taught to do that, it just takes time. But we can get there

Thanks, tree....

It means a lot to hear your perspective and experience. Thank you.

When T and I talked during my last session, he was taking in my feedback and said that he was open to figuring out another way, but that he didn't know how to reach me. As we were pondering, he said, "Saying that I am frightened and feeling helpless - - "...I told him that would help - MUCH more than threatening to terminate!

When he thought about why he didn't try that approach, he then recognized his feelings of anger and desperation - which led him to go the other route. This was really big for me. For him to recognize this and then admit it to me was honest. I told him that I cared how he felt, and that I would much rather he share that with me.

I know he cares about me. And honestly, I wonder if this experience is having an impact on how he may be IRL when he feels angry towards others....or to other clients....so it's all a learning process.

And for me....it may be fruitful to have this experience, so that we can figure out why I reacted the way I did, where it stems from, and how I can work towards doing things differently.

Thanks for believing in me. This work is hard.

[WePow]

((((((((( MU )))))))))) What you are doing is --- therapy. That is exactly what therapy is designed to do - to allow us to see our patterns and address them in a safe way with a safe person. A large part of life is communication. Many of us come from backgrounds where we were not heard or we were silenced. Our ability to communicate (listening and responding) was sometimes seriously damaged.

You and your T are actually DOING therapy as you process this event. I am very glad you wrote it up and sent it to him = and I LOVE the way you logically worked through your side of things in a very mature way. That just rocks. It is something I am still learning how to do and it is only because I can trust my T to not harm me when I need to say something like "You said xyz and I heard zxy which made me feel ___ ." T will respond in a safe way with something like "I did say xyz but I didn't mean zxy - I meant yzx."

And going through yourself to understand why you responded the way you did is so vital for your healing! And that takes courage.

Also - I do believe your interactions with your T do impact him IRL. Any T worth a dang is going to learn as much as they can from the interactions they have with clients. That is just being a smart human. It is kinda a perk of being a T in a way :-)

Continue to be honest with yourself and with your T. You are doing a flat out amazing job!

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

He didn't really see it as a threat, but rather stating his limit.

Potayto, Potawto.

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

And honestly, I wonder if this experience is having an impact on how he may be IRL when he feels angry towards others....or to other clients....so it's all a learning process.

I hope it will have an impact on him. I think he could end up learning a lot from this.

Originally Posted by MUE

And for me....it may be fruitful to have this experience, so that we can figure out why I reacted the way I did, where it stems from, and how I can work towards doing things differently.

When you say why you reacted the way you did, do you mean why you got scared and felt distant when your T threatened to terminate you unless you did what he wanted? I actually think you handled everything perfectly just the way you did. You let your T that his threatening behavior was not helpful to you (you set a boundary: "threats are unacceptable") and talked it out with him, adult to adult. You both came to understand yourselves better. It sounds like an A+ job to me!

MUE, my t once told me he refuses to be an accomplice to my suicide. Tough words to hear, but they were said completely out of concern for my well-being. At the time I took it as a threat, but I've realized in time that it was a promise and committment to be completely straightforward with me. I hope you can work through this. Your t clearly cares multitudes about your saftety.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

What I've found though is that it takes me time to work through my feelings of fear and then build up the courage to address an issue that I believe needs to be addressed. It's scary, and it's hard. And I most certainly find myself not having the courage to do it on-the-spot which is what gets me in trouble IRL. I have to work through that fear and feel that I am worthy enough of better treatment - quicker - so that I don't end up in dangerous situations.....Something for me to think about. Thanks.

You will get better with practice! And working through your fears will diffuse them so that they will then dissapate. You are doing good work MUE! This is the route to health!

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

What I've found though is that it takes me time to work through my feelings of fear and then build up the courage to address an issue that I believe needs to be addressed. It's scary, and it's hard. And I most certainly find myself not having the courage to do it on-the-spot which is what gets me in trouble IRL. I have to work through that fear and feel that I am worthy enough of better treatment - quicker - so that I don't end up in dangerous situations.

I had the same experience, and often had to take time to work through what was going on before I could build up the courage to take the next step. And I had the same feelings that it was dangerous not to be able to access any strength right at the moment it was needed. But things got better with time. Even now it can take me some time to prepare to meet a situation with my mind clear enough to be able to act in the moment, but I now am able to give myself that time, to figure it is OK to give myself that time. And I require preparation-time less now than I used to. You may find you have a similar experience when you work through these things enough times.

[mixedup_emotions]

Originally Posted by WePow

((((((((( MU )))))))))) What you are doing is --- therapy. That is exactly what therapy is designed to do - to allow us to see our patterns and address them in a safe way with a safe person. A large part of life is communication. Many of us come from backgrounds where we were not heard or we were silenced. Our ability to communicate (listening and responding) was sometimes seriously damaged.

You and your T are actually DOING therapy as you process this event. I am very glad you wrote it up and sent it to him = and I LOVE the way you logically worked through your side of things in a very mature way. That just rocks. It is something I am still learning how to do and it is only because I can trust my T to not harm me when I need to say something like "You said xyz and I heard zxy which made me feel ___ ." T will respond in a safe way with something like "I did say xyz but I didn't mean zxy - I meant yzx."

And going through yourself to understand why you responded the way you did is so vital for your healing! And that takes courage.

Also - I do believe your interactions with your T do impact him IRL. Any T worth a dang is going to learn as much as they can from the interactions they have with clients. That is just being a smart human. It is kinda a perk of being a T in a way :-)

Continue to be honest with yourself and with your T. You are doing a flat out amazing job!

Wow....Thanks so much for the feedback and the support. It's hard to see that THIS is indeed therapy...I wish I had the courage to say what I can write though. One step at a time....

[mixedup_emotions]

Originally Posted by sunrise

[/size][/size][/font]Potayto, Potawto.

I hope it will have an impact on him. I think he could end up learning a lot from this.

When you say why you reacted the way you did, do you mean why you got scared and felt distant when your T threatened to terminate you unless you did what he wanted? I actually think you handled everything perfectly just the way you did. You let your T that his threatening behavior was not helpful to you (you set a boundary: "threats are unacceptable") and talked it out with him, adult to adult. You both came to understand yourselves better. It sounds like an A+ job to me!

Thanks, sunrise....

I guess what I'm trying to do is bridge the gap between what I feel and am able to express in writing, after the fact....and being able to recognize what I'm feeling and what I'm needing in the moment. And I also realize that some of my reactions are perhaps based on life experiences...so it may be helpful for us to explore them to see what he and I could've done differently.

It's all part of the process. Wish it wasn't so hard!

[zooropa]

being able to recognize what I'm feeling and what I'm needing in the moment.

this is HUGE, mue. I have been working so hard for so long on recognizing my feelings and being able to express them in the moment to T. It is still such a struggle. I hope it gets easier with time. I think at first I was like, "feeling, what am I FEELING? I'm not feeling anything...??" At least now I can know I'm feeling something, even if sometimes I don't know what it is. What a long, slow process. Hang in there.

[mixedup_emotions]

Originally Posted by farmergirl

MUE, my t once told me he refuses to be an accomplice to my suicide. Tough words to hear, but they were said completely out of concern for my well-being. At the time I took it as a threat, but I've realized in time that it was a promise and committment to be completely straightforward with me. I hope you can work through this. Your t clearly cares multitudes about your saftety.

Thanks, farmergirl...

I totally understand the need for limits, and at the time, I wasn't trying to test his limits. It just seemed like we were both on such different pages at that session.

After I shared with him my experiences from the night before and the predicament that I was in, he immediately jumped to pushing me to do things that he felt was in my best interest, in a stern and angry tone, without any compassion....and I cowered....shocked by it...when what I really needed at that time was his warmth and caring....Blech. It was just awful.

So, now he knows what I was feeling - and I do believe he would've gone in a totally different direction had he known what I was going through. I wasn't able to express that to him at the time, because I was too busy trying to protect myself as I was feeling bullied by him....

Even if I was suicidal, I would understand the words, the need to set limits - but as hard as it would be to hear, if it was accompanied by some kind of caring or compassion towards me as a human being, it might be more tolerable....