[mobius]

I am struggling. Some of you may remember that I recently posted that I was newly pregnant and freaking out about that. Well, I ended up miscarrying a few days ago and now I'm really crashing.

I have a long history of depression, which had mostly been in remission, but I can feel those feelings creeping back. I don't want to get out of bed; I feel like the universe is totally and completely screwing with me. It's convenient that I also physically feel like crap, so I can be in bed mostly without questions asked, but I'll need to go back to work tomorrow and face everyone there and I just don't feel up to anything at the moment.

I've grappled with thoughts of suicide off and on throughout my life, and they're coming back in full force right now. My thoughts are just that - thoughts - but they're not helping with the day-to-day tasks of carrying on with life.

Here's where the therapy part comes in: I've pushed myself in the last week to tell my therapist about how I'm feeling. I called her last week, which I don't think I had ever done before in the 3+ years I've been seeing her. She has been wonderful throughout the miscarriage process, offering support and concern. The thing is, she's kind of terrible about talking about suicide (and always has been). It seems like she avoids it. If we talk about it, it means I've brought it up. And even then, she seems to feel uncomfortable with it and want to drop it. I end up feeling like I'm complaining, so I drop it.

I plan to bring this up with her when we meet on Thurs, but given the other posts on the board about talking about suicide, I thought I'd throw mine into the mix. I can't stop asking myself, "Why?" right now. Why is everything so difficult?

[zooropa]

(((((mobius))))) I'm so sorry you're going through so much right now. It really does seem like when it rains it pours, doesn't it? I wish I knew why that is.

I kind of wonder if it isn't a tactic Ts use (or some Ts, anyway) to not talk about suicidal ideation. I know my T just plain won't talk about it, doesn't seem to want me to talk about it, just ignores it. I have wondered if it isn't some kind of behavior modification thing she's using on me, actually. Anyway, just wanted you to know that there may be a deeper reason that your T doesn't seem comfortable talking about it. Either that or our Ts are just a lot alike, lol.

[lynn P.]

((mobius)) - I'm very sorry for your profound loss. Have you seen your family doctor since the miscarriage - you should go for a checkup. This is a very painful time - dealing with your depression but grieving as well. You need to take extra good care of yourself.

When suicide thoughts come, remember this bad period will pass - which is why you should never act on the thoughts. Sure it might end the pain but it cause endless pain for family and friends. I lost my brother a little over 2 yrs ago. I think it's fine to discuss suicide instead of leaving the person to deal with it on their own. We just need to keep fighting and have faith. Can you take some time off work or do you think it's better you keep busy?

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by zooropa

(((((mobius))))) I'm so sorry you're going through so much right now. It really does seem like when it rains it pours, doesn't it? I wish I knew why that is.

I kind of wonder if it isn't a tactic Ts use (or some Ts, anyway) to not talk about suicidal ideation. I know my T just plain won't talk about it, doesn't seem to want me to talk about it, just ignores it. I have wondered if it isn't some kind of behavior modification thing she's using on me, actually. Anyway, just wanted you to know that there may be a deeper reason that your T doesn't seem comfortable talking about it. Either that or our Ts are just a lot alike, lol.

Yes. Having had the same experience many times, I believe that many if not most T's believe that ANY discussion of s*******l ideations just reinforces them. Faced with that reaction, my first feelings were anger and disbelief. So I went and found places on the web where you COULD talk about doing away with yourself. And I did. I wrote a lot about it. And, sad to say, I found that it didn't do any good for me. It just made things worse. I tried Samaritans. I tried the Suicide Project. And in the end it was just not satisfying. Talking about it didn't bring anything positive. Maybe this is something that T's have already discovered and started teaching in T school.

(((((((((((((mobius)))))))))))))))

I'm SO sorry about your loss, and all of the big, difficult feelings you're having. It sounds overwhelming.

If you talk to T about your thoughts and she wants to change the subject, could you tell her that *this* is what you really need help with right now? There have been a couple of times in my therapy when I really had to fight to get T to hear me...and in the end he did, and in the end it helped.

((((((((mobius)))))))))

Be gentle with you. Stay safe.

[chaotic13]

Zooropa your comment about some T's avoiding talking about suicidal thought kind of struct me. I've not had any strong ideations like this but a few times when I've emotionally crashed I've mentioned wanting to just stop breathing or wanting to just...quite life.. Anytime I've expressed these feelings my T has not inquired or followed up on them EVER. I always kind of thought that was strange because...well it has only been recently that I've started acknowledging and verbalizing that I even HAVE emotional reactions to things. My T seems to jump on, inquire, and attempt to get me to tune into any other emotions I've expressed. Now your comment makes be consider that she is using some type technique.

((Mobius)) it sounds like you are experience grief of your loss. I hope you and your T can talk about this and help you experience sadness and loss without getting sucked into depression. I didn't realize it but I was suffering from depression when I first started T. Then when I dug my way out of it I was very fearful that I would slip back in again. I remember later when we were working through some past stuff I really crashed a few times and felt those low feelings again and immediately panicked thinking I was going down the black hole again. But luckily, it passed I had some new coping mechanisms and I didn't stay there.

I hope for you your able to experience your loss, grieve and then move on without staying in the dark.

[Lauru]

My T will talk about sui with me. She asks questions, like why do I feel that way, what other behaviors could I do to minimize the feelings. What am I doing that amplifies the feelings. Then she asks me if I have a plan and if I am safe. She will walk me next door to the hospital if she has to. She is very calm and soothing and not judgmental at all. She is wonderful really. Now when I see her next I have to tell her about my thoughts and urges I have been having. Hopefully, I won't have to go inpatient.

[darkrunner]

Mobius,
I'm sorry for your loss.
Like some of the others, none of my T's have ever wanted to focus a lot on suicidal thoughts. My last T forced me to tell her my 'plan' - she said that if I said it out loud the intensity of the urge would decrease. I did tell her, and it did help. For me, something about being alone with it makes it seem more real, more possible and something about telling someone makes it seem like a bad idea.

I'm glad you are planning to bring it up. Take care.

[mixedup_emotions]

((( Mobius )))

I am so sorry for your loss and what you're going through right now. It may be worthwhile to talk to your T about how you experience her when it comes to talking about sui...and how you feel as a result. It might bring you some clarity about your T's take on things.

Try to remember that this will pass. Feeling the grief is important, although I tend to avoid it - and that, in turn, keeps me stuck....Be kind to yourself. (( HUGS ))

[sittingatwatersedge]

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( mobius )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I'm so sorry to hear your news.
Please don't give up, when you are upset is no time to make a decision. Good to hear that you are committed to laying this out for yr T - that will be some solid support for you. please let us know how you are

[peaches100]

Hi Mobius,

I'm sorry you're feeling so bad. Having the miscarriage is bound to bring up difficult emotions, both because of the circumstances and because of the hormonal changes that take place. I'm concerned about you, and think it's important that you get all the support you need right now. I don't see how it will help you for your t to avoid discussing your thoughts of sui. I've always heard that when a person mentions sui, it should be taken seriously and discussed. Your t should have received the training she needs to approach and discuss your sui feelings. Please reach out to her and let her know that you need to talk directly about you feel.

[mobius]

Thank you so much for the support and hugs, everyone. I'm actually swamped at work at the moment, but didn't want to post about suicide and then disappear. It's been difficult to be at work, but I'm doing OK. I'll be back later to respond more fully.

[mobius]

Originally Posted by zooropa

(((((mobius))))) I'm so sorry you're going through so much right now. It really does seem like when it rains it pours, doesn't it? I wish I knew why that is.

I kind of wonder if it isn't a tactic Ts use (or some Ts, anyway) to not talk about suicidal ideation. I know my T just plain won't talk about it, doesn't seem to want me to talk about it, just ignores it. I have wondered if it isn't some kind of behavior modification thing she's using on me, actually. Anyway, just wanted you to know that there may be a deeper reason that your T doesn't seem comfortable talking about it. Either that or our Ts are just a lot alike, lol.

Thanks for the support, zoo. I can understand (in an intellectual way) not wanting to reinforce further discussion of suicide. My therapist isn't particularly behaviorally-oriented (or at least not that I've noticed), and it seems more like she's just plain uncomfortable. But then again, I could just be projecting my own discomfort...

[mobius]

Originally Posted by lynn P.

((mobius)) - I'm very sorry for your profound loss. Have you seen your family doctor since the miscarriage - you should go for a checkup. This is a very painful time - dealing with your depression but grieving as well. You need to take extra good care of yourself.

When suicide thoughts come, remember this bad period will pass - which is why you should never act on the thoughts. Sure it might end the pain but it cause endless pain for family and friends. I lost my brother a little over 2 yrs ago. I think it's fine to discuss suicide instead of leaving the person to deal with it on their own. We just need to keep fighting and have faith. Can you take some time off work or do you think it's better you keep busy?

Thanks, Lynn. I go back to see my OB on Thurs for a follow-up appointment. I'm finding that miscarriage is a difficult loss to grieve, both because it's kind of ambiguous and also because others IRL seem kind of uncomfortable with it. I've only got one friend (more of an acquaintance, really) IRL who has experienced a miscarriage. I'm looking forward to talking to her in a couple of weeks when we both have some time.

I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your brother. You're right, of course, about the devastating impact of suicide on others. I keep a picture of my son on my desk at work and on my phone. It's helpful to be reminded often of his silly little three-year-old self.

[mobius]

To ygrec, treehouse, chaotic, lauru, darkrunner, mue, sawe, and peaches...thank you so much for your kind thoughts and words. It's heartening in a way to hear that others have had the same experience of avoidance of talk about suicide with therapists (because it helps me feel less alone). And yet, it's frustrating too. I'm glad to hear that some of you have had good experiences in discussing suicide with your therapists. I don't want to be closed off with how I'm feeling. (And to be clear once again, though I've had thoughts of suicide, I'm not in any danger of acting on those thoughts...for me it's more emblematic of despair than anything else.)

It's so nice to come her and feel supported. Thanks so much, everyone.

[zooropa]

(((((mobius)))))