[pachyderm]

I said in another thread how I think that my mother felt that any disagreement, any separation, was a threat to her emotional survival. She had to counter this threat instantly, giving no chance for any thought to take place. This is typical of the "threatened brain" reacting without allowing any delay, because it sees that delay could be fatal.

Why did she feel so threatened that she had to react instantly? I surmise that she herself had been so threatened in her childhood, that lashing back was the only way she felt she could survive. And in reacting that way with us, she transmitted a similar experience: we had to try to react instantly (fight or flight) to what she did. All our attempts to cope that way were defeated. I think the same thing must have been true in her young life: trying to fight back aroused in her own parents a similar feeling of threat, so they had to defeat her.

So it gets passed from one generation to another -- unless somehow the chain is broken. It does not require strict physical, genetic inheritance -- though that can affect the process -- for the dysfunction to pass through generations.

Not scientific "proof" of how something happens; just suggestive.

[WikidPissah]

similarly, I come from several generations of rage and abuse. my father was taught to use his fists by his father, my mom was taught to accept the brutality by her mother. i can only guess how far back it goes...but my 6 siblings are living similar lives. by some strange string of luck i married a gentle soul, and my children were raised in a much different atmosphere. they in tern are kind and gentle with their significant others. chain broken i guess.

[Sannah]

You are born with innate reflexes and personality traits. Everything else needs to be learned. We are very affected by our environments. Our personalities interact with our environments, however, because you would never treat a child the way you were treated (I'm assuming).

[Gus1234U]

the most profound statement i ever heard about how we become who we are, has to do with how our Free Will (personality) interacts with our Predestination (DNA). it was said that we choose to notice those things which confirm our self perception. in other words,, mother may have said 100 things to us, but we remember only those things which help us to justify who we chose to become. out of all the billions of experiences, we choose to notice and claim those which "make us" into the person we intend to be.

perhaps the reason this struck me so profoundly, is: i was at a moment in life where i felt compelled to change. i CHOSE to stop weighing with value all those things which did not serve the new me, and began to remember things which "Made" the new me possible, whether they happened or not, is irrelevant~!

over and over i have seen how hard it is for adults to change, and even children, can become obstinate at a very young age. perhaps this is the secret: Change must become the most important goal in life.

Moving along,,, moving along,,,,,, Gus

[sittingatwatersedge]

((((((((((((((((((( dear Pachy )))))))))))))))))))))))

Great deductive reasoning. You have hit on a great truth.
Do you not know that poem by Philip Larkin? I memorized this when I was just 17, shouldn't I have known from the way it spoke to me that one day I would be doing my time on the couch... here it is, edited just a teeny bit to avoid the censormachine

They [mess] you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were [messed] up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.

[RiverX]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

I said in another thread how I think that my mother felt that any disagreement, any separation, was a threat to her emotional survival. She had to counter this threat instantly, giving no chance for any thought to take place. This is typical of the "threatened brain" reacting without allowing any delay, because it sees that delay could be fatal.

Why did she feel so threatened that she had to react instantly? I surmise that she herself had been so threatened in her childhood, that lashing back was the only way she felt she could survive. And in reacting that way with us, she transmitted a similar experience: we had to try to react instantly (fight or flight) to what she did. All our attempts to cope that way were defeated. I think the same thing must have been true in her young life: trying to fight back aroused in her own parents a similar feeling of threat, so they had to defeat her.

...Well, my take on this (derived from Masterson + co), is that there is an arrested development. In healthy child development, a stage of separation and individuation, when the child explores the world, tries things out, asks questions, begins to be able to use thier own thinking skills, this learning stage is encouraged and supported by the parent with love, attention and interest in the child's explorations and unique individuality.

A parent who has not completed their own separation individuation will cling to whoever they feel close to, and part of that is to stiffle (with a vengeance), the healthy attempts of others to separate/ individuate and live into thier Real Selves.
Our real self needs to grow accompanied by encouragement and recognition of relationship, a relationship with the attitude of 'GO LIVE!' And this attitude is like a live seed, it gets internalised and the person can self-activate in life with this inlaid accompaniment of a feeling of love, ie 'this is good'. Someone with a parent who has that sort of developmental arrest has to self activate against an internalised undermining force, or if lucky, simply the absence of support. this is because the Real Self is chronically undernourished, no support for self activation. So, when you do self-activate, that is act from your own initiative, it can feel like you're hanging over the ravine, bound to be rejected , ~~~ or some such unhelpful internal experiences.

any of this resonate pachy?

The qualities of the Real Self here: www.selfinexile.com on the Real Self page. Also recommend reading eg, 'The Real Self' by J. Masterson


river

[RiverX]

"One need not be a chamber to be haunted;
One need not be a house;
The brain has corridors surpassing material place." ...Emily Dickinson

Love this quote

[Wantabenormal]

I personally come from a calm family. No physical abuse, however there was some mental abuse due from mental illness.

I am a true believer in the DNA theory. My maternal grandmother suffers from depression and anxiety, 5 of her 6 children suffer from depression, anxiety, bipolar and schizophrenia. Their offspring (including me) suffer from depression and my children show signs as well.

If there is some way of breaking the chain, so to speak, I would love to know the details so that maybe future generations do not have to suffer.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by RiverX

A parent who has not completed their own separation individuation will cling to whoever they feel close to, and part of that is to stiffle (with a vengeance), the healthy attempts of others to separate/ individuate and live into thier Real Selves.

any of this resonate pachy?

Oh yes, of course. The book Understanding the Borderline Mother describes this too, as I recall. The mother who still needs a mother will be frightened by a child showing signs of wanting to separate, because the child might leave and not be entirely devoted to filling the needs of the mother.

This is not to "condemn" anything, just to (try to) understand the mechanics of what is happening.