Family and Therapy

I had a very emotionally unstable upbringing. My father is a textbook narcissist and my mother is an emotionless enabler. My emotional needs were rarely met and I basically raised myself. About 5 years ago, after years of adolescent depression and anxiety, I had my first nervous breakdown and my parents urged me into therapy. They have always been open-minded about using treatment to improve life, but they've been very one-tracked about the development of the problems and have declined involvement beyond the initial intervention. I think part of this is a lack of education (my BA is in psychology, so admittedly, I have a deeper understanding), and part of it is an unwillingness to take any responsibility for how their behaviors affected us (anyone else dealt with this?) Not only do I find this frustrating, but also incredibly insulting because they often victimize themselves by playing up the difficulties they face as parents of someone with emotional difficulties (or this?). Good grief!

After years of therapy I have made great strides socially and emotionally and generally, I feel really good about most aspects of my life.. except my relationship with them. I've suggested family therapy or individual therapy for them, but they would rather use me as a scapegoat for their issues than seek self improvement. Because of this, sometimes I have to bring up big stuff that I'm working on in therapy but even with the skills I've picked up in therapy to help me deal with them (tailoring communication to their personalities, being clear about my emotional needs, etc), I'm met with avoidance or resistance because not only do I, according to them, have no idea what I'm talking about since I'm a young adult, but I'm also "mentally ill" (). How can I talk about these issues without such resistance, and without getting stigmatized by your own family? Does that happen to anyone else?

I'm at my wits end. I've done the work. I'm a strong and confident young woman. I not that timid, sad, emotionally raw, 18 year old I was when I moved out - And I can't keep going back there every time I see or hear from them, but I also can't cut them out. My family is a big part of my life - How do expose myself to their hurtful behaviors without creating further damage? How do I protect myself without cutting ties? And How do I get them to see that going to therapy does not make me "the crazy one"? That going to therapy does not make me the scapegoat for all of our family's problems? That depression and anxiety are symptoms of problems rather than the cause of problems? That therapy is not just for the insane?

((((Mightaswelllive))))) I think you may really get a lot out of this one book:
Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life [Paperback]
Susan Forward (Author), Craig Buck (Author) - Amazon has it. My T has this one and it is on my reading list from T.

It can be a very interesting balancing act to be able to have the relationship with the parents but turn it around to where we are finally capable of protecting who we are. As a child, we didn't have the skills to do so.

Big hugs to you!

I have no answer to your question, I am trying to figure similar things out with my own mother. She is 80, and I am now the designated caretaker for her. It's triggering daily, and super frustrating for me.
Hoping you find your way thru this situation!

They are not going to change. I think that you can deal with them better if you accept this and accept that you don't need their validation of how you see life. You have your way and they have theirs and they don't have to meet. When they bring stuff up that you don't agree with just ignore it or change the subject.

(((((((((((( mightaswelllive )))))))))))

I agree with Sannah. I have very similar parent difficulties to you. What Sannah said is about all that works.

Ok, I pretty much get that they're not changing and that I'm always going to be "the crazy one". I guess maybe the better question to ask is - how do I accept my designated role in my family system without actually falling back into it every time I am in contact with them? And maybe - what tools do I use to stay strong around them?

And how do you "just ignore" a narcissist?

yes, what sannah says is true.
you can't change other people, and being frustrated by their unchanging ways is only giving power over to them.
just accept it, stop trying, and eventually your relationship might get better. or it might not. but at least you'll be taking back control over how you feel.

For me, I found that I needed to have a base of strength somewhere else. For me, that was after my first child was born. That somehow started to give me the base that I needed. However, my marriage destroyed a lot of my own personal strength (AGAIN!!). Now I am finding it again by working on increasing my feeling of personal competence -- that is, by giving myself honest credit for the things I can do, and by understanding that I can in fact do things, and take care of myself.

I also find that it helps to remind myself that my narcissistic mother has the emotional maturity of a two-year-old. If I think of her as a child, I can think of her with a lot more compassion, and also without automatically giving her the power to hurt me so profoundly.

You do not need to accept your role in the family system. That is their perception of you. You do not need to let it be your perception of you. You have your own story about you, your own understanding of you. Since they don't, and can't, really know you, there is no need for you to accept their story about you. (And that includes trying to get them to reject their story about you, because they're likely very narcissistically invested in that story, and they won't give it up.)

I am 56, and my mother is 90, and, if my experience is any guide, I feel I can say with some confidence that your parents will not ever take any responsibility for the way their behavior affected you.

Sorry if this is harsh.

Good luck.

-Far

I agree with what everyone said here and t plainly put it in words i could understand and something that worked for me; "boundaries, boundaries and more boundaries" .

I had to come up with pat answers
1. "that really isn't going to work for me right now"
2. "can i get back to you on that" if answered no, then no is the answer...
3. and when i was expected to solve their problem, i would just listen and then say "what are you going to do about that" "sounds great" "let me know how that works out for you"

it is tough being a part of the sandwich generation... divorced, kids are 21 & 22, and mom is 72, sister is out of the picture and brother is 500 miles away and available only in emergency situations, so the bulk is left to me

safe hugs and good luck you are not alone!!!

Wholly crap.......do we have the same parents? As I read your post I felt like I was reading my own life history and what I am going through right now!!!! I also raised myself and I also have a BA in psyc!!

I grew up in an alcoholic home, both parents drank, and yes emotional turmoil for years. They have sobered up (20 and 15 years) however recently my relationship with my mom has deteriorated. I had a breakdown at age 20 ( I am now 31) and went to counselling and was diagnosed with depression. in the last 10 years I have been to counselloing 3 or 4 times to deal with the depression when it satrts to come back (counselling usually prevents my depression from coming back full force). Going to counselling has also greatly helped me...given me confidence, assertiveness, self esteem, more positive thinking skills, happiness etc.

Recently my relationship with my mom has deteriorated, and we got in a huge argument. I asked her to come to family counselling with me (which she has offered in the past) but she refused. I actually did cut her off, I said I needed to detach until we go to counselling.....she still refused.

......I am at the end of my rope with her and am done with her negativity and bad attitude. She, like your parents, does not want to take any personal responsibility for the way she acts or for the breakdown of our relationship. She basically told my sister that if I have a problem with how she is, I need therapy to learn to get over it (funny thing is in the same sentence she said how mean, disrespectfful, cruel and cold I am as a daughter, and I need to change that too-rather than saying she needs therapy to get over how I am). Can anyone say "double standard?

I have decided to go to my own counselling to deal with the emotions of this as well as perhaps learn techniques on how to deal with her better. I am not doing it for her or because she said so( I actually decided this before my sister told me what she said) but I am going for me. To learn how to cope without just putting up with her or keeping her cut off forever. I am not sure if you are still in counselling, but perhpas talking about this with a counsellor would help you too. I decided that just because she does not want to get better, does not have to stop me from getting better. I also feel like I am banging my head against a wall when dealing with her, and want to learn how and when to let that go. Although I have set boundaries with her, I also want to learn how to do it more effectively and if she decides she does not like my boundaries than so be it. At least I will have the opinion and help of a professional to guide me and confirm what I am doing is right for me.

I start counselling next Tuesday and to be honest I can hardley wait, I am actually looking forward to dealing with this as I am sick of being angry with her, frustrated and wrapped up in her chaos.

Good luck, please keep us updated on how you are dealing with this, as any ideas right now I could use too!!

You already got some great responses here MAWL.

Excellent questions, you've got your problem narrowed down really well which is the first step in solving it. I can see your problem, it is hard for you to withstand their pressure to put you back into this role. I would say that it will be easier after you build yourself up more. I would suggest you continue to build your own identity and strengthen your boundaries.

Have you ever tried ignoring your dad before? If so, what happened?

With my mom I have to keep reminding myself that her reality is skewed. She's going to keep saying what she says, and treating me the way she does...but I don't have to buy into that. That doesn't have to be who I am. I guess I detach. I never speak of counseling or pdoc appointments. I don't talk about medication or take it in front of her. Nor do I talk about my personal life/hubby or kids. Those topics are just NOT tolerated. It is unsafe for me to bring up day to day struggles with her, therefore I do not.

This is not to say that it still doesn't hurt. It will always hurt.

(((((((((((mawl))))))))))

My mom lives 4 miles down the road from me, and I have to deal with her and her alcoholic behavior on a daily basis. It's hard.

She goes through phases where she decides she's going to sober up (going through one right now) and all of a sudden, there she is, back in my life.

My kids love her, but i don't like how she is with them. To put it VERY mildly, she is a huge stressor in my life.

I just asked my T earlier this week how I'm supposed to deal with her...and he said "boundaries". he's right. she's very dependent on me, I've been her caretaker since I was a child, and I DO need to learn to draw boundaries. it's hard. I am allowed to say "no" without any explanation, for example.

I'm sorry you're in the situation you're in. YOU are changing, THEY are not. As much as we would like our parents to change, they probably aren't going to. Believe in you, and do what you need to do for your OWN healing. That's all you CAN do.